Which milling vice

[John CoatesParticipant @johncoates48577]

Having started using the Chester Champion to begin my learning journey on the milling front, I have found that the vice I have is a bit basic and limiting. It’s not very big nor indexable so I need something else.

 

It’s a basic 2 1/2″ vice that I bought at a car boot years ago for no particular need but just to have. I’ve used it a couple of times in a pillar drill but that’s about it. Now I’ve got the Chester I needed something to hold stuff that can’t be fixed in the t-slots. Don’t think I need a tilting vice as the Chester has a tilt head. 

 

So I am contemplating this one

 

Chronos 6″ vice

 

What do more experienced members think? 

 

Thanks again for any replies

 

John 

 

 

 

 

 

[John CoatesParticipant @johncoates48577]

Need a vice for my mill

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

You don’t say which of the Champion machines you have but if its the smaller of the two you may be better off with the K4 4″ vice, I have this size on my X3 which has a table somewhere between the two champion machines. If you have the 20V then the 6″ may fit but they do overhang the Y axis handwheel making it difficult to see the dial if you don’t have a dro.

 

I would suggest you remove it from the swivel base as this will give more room between vice and spindle and just fit the swivel when you need it.

 

Jason

Edited By JasonB on 04/09/2010 08:26:28

[John CoatesParticipant @johncoates48577]

Hi Jason

 

It is second hand and I can’t find a model name or number on the machine but the table measures 150 x 630mm 

 

Thanks

 

John 

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

The X3 table 160mm deep so I would personally go with a 4″ thats been large enough for me to do 2″ scale traction engine and hit & miss engines. Its also the right width to mount onto a 6″ rotary table once you get round to adding one of those to your tooling

 

Put the £20 saved towards a set of parallels for setting work in the vice.

 

Jason

[David Clark 13Participant @davidclark13]

Hi There

I use the 100mm version of the precision vice

http://www.arceurotrade.co.uk/Catalogue/Workholding/Machine-Vices

It is not expensive and seems very accurate.

regards david

[BogstandardParticipant @bogstandard]

If you can get the overall length of the vice, then halve it. That should then roughly be the width of your table. So if the 4″ vice is 12″ (300mm) overall length, then that will be the largest you should fit to your table, which is 6″ (150mm) wide. Half on, half off, overhanging the front of the table.

 

Be VERY careful, some cast vices look to be very good value, but when you open the jaws, where there should be support next to the fixed jaw for resting your parallels on, you can find it is just a rough cast trough.  The last one on the page in the link in David’s post above is just such a fellow, I should know, I am having to fill in the crappy area and refinish it on the surface grinder for a friend.

 

I have been using Vertex ‘K’ series for many years, and have yet to buy a bad one. The only problem is with them is that the support under the jaws doesn’t go the full width of the jaws.

 

The ‘Kurt’ type clones seem very popular as they usually open that little bit wider, and the holding area at the bottom of the jaws usually goes right across the full width of the jaws, but again, there are some rough ones about, plus also there is no centre support on them, and tiny bits can fall under the vice on some, past the main leadscrew.

 

Kurt type clone 

 

You can see what I mean from the pictures about no centre support, and the leadscrew running thru the centre.

 

I hope this helps.

 

 

Bogs

[Sub MandrelParticipant @submandrel]

I have one of the larger camlock vices, second from the bottom of David’s link. Arc advised the larger model for my X2 and were right.

 

It needs to be properly set up for the best results, and I had to scrape down the guide plate mounting surface as the plates were not bearing on the slower sliding surface.

 

Be warned – the cam lever gives a lot of power, and if you overtighten it there can be a dull thud and the fixed jaw falls off. It may have been a duff casting, but the break showed no obvious evidence of a prior weakness.

 

I re-attached mine with four long M6 studs and I’ve been using it with the repair for longer than before.

 

Other than that, I’m happy with it.

 

Neil

[Lawrie Alush-JaggsParticipant @lawriealush-jaggs50843]

Hi Jason

 

I have the five inch Vertex K series and am very pleased with it.  It has taken everything I have thrown at it. 

My table is 540 x 190.  The vice and a 6″ rotary table fit side by side very nicely.

I picked up a 6″ wide vice like this https://www.machineryhouse.com.au/Products?stockCode=V311 which does fit on the table but not all that comfortably.

 

Get a set of parallels

[Chris FarbraceParticipant @chrisfarbrace]

Picking up on Johns post,does anyone have experience of using Vertex Tilting vices? I was thinking of buying one to use on my SX3 and leaving the head pemanently locked.Are they well constructed and worth the money,most Vertex stuff seems a lot better made than other imported tooling,regards Chris

[adyParticipant @ady]

With a decent cross slide, with slots, you can get a big 6 inch vice and put t-bolt holes in it.

 

Then you can bolt it flat, sideways or vertically on the cross slide.

 

Very handy for drilling those funny shaped bits as well as bar.

Pack it, or put it on the slide for that third dimension.

 

The myford slide t-slot is a bit  weak, best to cut your own.

[Ian S CParticipant @iansc]

I’d go no larger than 100mm, and think that 2 off 80mm ones would be even better, and the 2 of them would cost about the same as a 150mm one. Also the smaller vise has a lower profile, and with a mill you need all the room you can get under the chuck (short drills etc are handy). Wish I could afford even one of them, I have to make do with the tilting vise that came with the mill.  Ian S C

[John HaineParticipant @johnhaine32865]

Here’s a suggestion – buy some good angle plates and make/buy some clamping kit, and some 123 blocks.  Though I bought one of the common 4 inch swivelling machine vices when I got my VMB, I actually use it much less than other forms of clamping.  In particular I’ve got a “webless” angle plate, ground all over, I got for a song off a market stall, which has also got a fence bolted on one end – gets used all the time.  Quite to fit to the mill, true it up with a square rather than having to dial it in, dead accurate, doesn’t suffer jaw lift, can hold quite big chunks compared to the vice.

[John CoatesParticipant @johncoates48577]

Having done more research I need some more help

 

Contacted Chronos and basically none of the Vertex swivel vices (from 4″ to 6″) are suitable as the spacing between the furthest slots on my Chester’s table are 90mm c/l to c/l and Chronos say the smallest 4″ vice would need the swivel base removing which kind of kills my need for indexing

 

So given the 90mm spacing what are my options? Find a smaller swivel vice where the fixings for the swivel base will fit the spacing?

 

Anyone using a Chester Champion or mill with similar sized table (with slots at similar spacings) who can recommend a swivel vice or some way of indexing a workpiece to be able to cut e.g. hex shapes, triangles etc

 

Thanks again chaps

 

John

[David Clark 13Participant @davidclark13]

Hi There

You could put the base on an angle so it is over the tee slots.

Just means the index would not be zero when the vice is clocked true.

regards David

 

[Alex gibsonParticipant @alexgibson50133]

Hi All,
I'm thinking of replacing the cheapo vice on my X3 mill and have narrowed the search down to a Vertex K4 or a Vertex VA4. The VA4 costs roughly £60 more than the K4. Is it worth the extra cash or should I go for the K4?

thanks
alex

[Russell EberhardtParticipant @russelleberhardt48058]

Posted by John Coates on 04/09/2010 08:59:42:It is second hand and I can't find a model name or number on the machine but the table measures 150 x 630mm

I guess from the table size it is the old round column version. I have had the Warco version of this for nine or ten years.

I have a number of vices from 1.5 in up to 4 in. My favorite is a homemade 3 in one similar to David's those recommended by David. It is easy to align to the axes using a set square against the flat side. You will want it set up like this more often than rotated. If you want to rotate it you can set it up with a precision protractor and hold it down with clamps.

Russell.

[Gray62Participant @gray62]

I've been using a Warco DH1 vice for a couple of years now and it has an amazing capacity for it size. With the recent addition of the high jaws (both in hard and aluminium) this is an extremely versatile vice.

I use it on a large turret mill (Ajax AJT4) but on a smaller machine, I would recommend removing the swivel base unless it is needed just to give a little more headroom.

Just my 2 penneth

CB

[Nicholas FarrParticipant @nicholasfarr14254]

Hi John, sounds like you have the Chester Champion mill/drill with the 70mm round column, which is the only one of the Champion's in my old Chester catalogues with a table the size you say. If so, it should have three slots in the table, so why can't you fix a K4 or K5 on the middle slot long wise and that way you won't have to worry about getting one with exact fixing to fit cross wise. As Russell says Warco also did a version of the same machine which was the ZX-15.

You don't need to worry too much about overhanging the Y axis handwheel, as there isthe same distance plus as the width of the table to the handwheel.

I think Chester stopped selling this model round about 2007/8 as it dosen't appear in the 2009 catalogue.

I only have a second hand 3" non indexable cam vice, which I fix to the the middle slot on mine.

Regards Nick.

[John CoatesParticipant @johncoates48577]

Blimey! One of my old threads resurrected

I bought a Vertex K4 last year at Harrogate and it has been brilliant.

Nick you're right. I can fit the K4 on both ways and have not found a problem using it. In fact I've just used it in my new (to me) Elliott 10M and am thinking that maybe a K5 or K6 will be needed to give me maximum ability on that beastie.

[Alex gibsonParticipant @alexgibson50133]

Sory John,
i didn't mean to hijack your thread. I've had no response to my question so perhaps I should start a new thread.

regards
alex

[John CoatesParticipant @johncoates48577]

Alex

No problem. If it gets you your answer then do it mate.

I didn't need the extra accuracy and protection of the leadscrew of the V4 and have been 100% happy with my K4

That £60 saved can buy a lot of tooling (well for my skill level anyway!)

John

[David HaynesParticipant @davidhaynes53962]

It is such a shame that the widely praised Vertex K4 is only available with the rotating base. I cannot see many times it would be needed and there are well practised techniques for rotating work pieces by packing etc. Many people seem to take the base off anyway.

Dave

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