Warco WM290 strange noise

[petro1headParticipant @petro1head]

I have noticed my lathe sometimes makes a strange noise.

Sounds like a bearing but I don't think its the main chuck bearing

I am also going to send this to Warco to see if they have an idea what it could be

[petro1headParticipant @petro1head]

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Can you post a photo of the left side of the head with the cover off as it would help to know the belt arrangement on the 290.

I would suggest first swinging the banjo so that the gear is not engaged with the spindle and seeing if that makes a difference, and to eliminate the feed/screwcutting gear train.

If that does not work try taking the belt of the motor and running just the motor if that is noisy it could be the fan or swarf catching.

If there are two belt options or an intermediate gear try with/without that.

[petro1headParticipant @petro1head]

Will do, if its any help the noise sounds like it coming from the rear, under the stop/start buttons.

Will get some photos.

I can see you will soon be sending me a bill

[petro1headParticipant @petro1head]

Here you go Jason

[not done it yetParticipant @notdoneityet]

Is it one of those DC motors and controllers, or an AC motor? I see they are now touting an improved AC motor with VFD, which as the warco hype states (for the new 290V), [quote] ”Now with new and improved dependable AC motor system.’ [unquote].

It may well be something in the motor, or drive train, vibrating on deceleration, even when the controller slows the motor from a slightly over-speed condition?

Oops, just listened to your vid – sounds awful – something like a missing tooth on a gear.

Edited By not done it yet on 15/10/2018 15:07:34

[Mick B1Participant @mickb1]

On cold mornings I sometimes get a growl like that from the motor fan on my WM250V. I'm assuming it's that because it happens whether or not the spindle's running. But it always goes away after a second or two and doesn't come back again for weeks or months.

In your case, if it's the spindle bearings, and if it's constructed like my WM250V, there's an adjuster on the back end of the spindle. This is a screwed sleeve with C-spanner notches to fit the tool in the standard kit supplied, and two locking socket-screws on the circumference.

I would *guess* from the noise, if it is the spindle bearings, that it's loose and rattling around the races in a polygon when something – a resonance or suchlike – kicks it off. You might test it with a thick bar – say 1" DMS or more – gripped in the chuck with a clock gauge against it. Push it back and forth and see if you get more than a few tenths elastic deflection. If it is that, you may be able to adjust out the play, but don't tighten it further than snug – it can be a bit tricky because the right setting is a small target to hit, no more than a couple of degrees of rotation.

Ah, just heard your second vid and it sounds very different.

Edited By Mick B1 on 15/10/2018 15:28:25

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Same layout as my 280 from your pic so do the things I suggested to eliminate the banjo gears and then the spindle

[petro1headParticipant @petro1head]

Update, I have dismantled and cleaned the banjo gears, re-assembles using the paper method and applies a small amount of grease.

Much better.

I suspect the main noise was due to actually doing the vid the other way and the gear was not properly aligned with the chuck shaft

[BC ProfParticipant @bcprof]

Horrible noise from my wm280v ( inverter drive version ) turned out to be the cooling fan rubbing .

Thin plastic spacers between the change gears helped a lot too Brian C

[mechman48Participant @mechman48]

Posted by JasonB on 15/10/2018 16:16:07:

Same layout as my 280 from your pic so do the things I suggested to eliminate the banjo gears and then the spindle

Same layout as my WM 250V, makes similar noise when banjo is engaged, albeit seems louder than mine, quiet as when I disengage banjo, have you got clearance set on your gears correctly; maybe they are engaged root to root ? In which case place an A4 sheet of paper in between each gear set & tighten up until all gears are set, this will give you approx' .004 thou' backlash clearance on ea. gear & will quieten noise down somewhat, you will still get some gear rumble though.

Whilst you've got the gears exposed have a look for any chipped / broken teeth just on the off chance, I would also suggest you spray some motor bike chain spray oil on the teeth which also helps to quieten things down.

George.

[petro1headParticipant @petro1head]

Posted by mechman48 on 15/10/2018 16:53:26:

Posted by JasonB on 15/10/2018 16:16:07:

Same layout as my 280 from your pic so do the things I suggested to eliminate the banjo gears and then the spindle

Same layout as my WM 250V, makes similar noise when banjo is engaged, albeit seems louder than mine, quiet as when I disengage banjo, have you got clearance set on your gears correctly; maybe they are engaged root to root ? In which case place an A4 sheet of paper in between each gear set & tighten up until all gears are set, this will give you approx' .004 thou' backlash clearance on ea. gear & will quieten noise down somewhat, you will still get some gear rumble though.

Whilst you've got the gears exposed have a look for any chipped / broken teeth just on the off chance, I would also suggest you spray some motor bike chain spray oil on the teeth which also helps to quieten things down.

George.

As I said a couple of posts ago all fine now.

Gears were fine, no chips.

[petro1headParticipant @petro1head]

Posted by brian curd on 15/10/2018 16:38:46:

Horrible noise from my wm280v ( inverter drive version ) turned out to be the cooling fan rubbing .

Thin plastic spacers between the change gears helped a lot too Brian C

Where abouts exactly did you put these plastic spacers please

[mechman48Participant @mechman48]

Got it sorted as I was posting… .

George.

[BC ProfParticipant @bcprof]

I cut some circles?? of this plastic and fitted them between any of the gears that would rub together and also used them as spacers between the other gears to get them in to line . I also tapped the ends of the gear studs 2BA . This allowed me to fit some washers to take up the slack between the gears instead of the rathe crude c clip arrangement . Brian C

[petro1headParticipant @petro1head]

Posted by brian curd on 15/10/2018 17:20:23:

I cut some circles?? of this plastic and fitted them between any of the gears that would rub together and also used them as spacers between the other gears to get them in to line . I also tapped the ends of the gear studs 2BA . This allowed me to fit some washers to take up the slack between the gears instead of the rathe crude c clip arrangement . Brian C

Interesting, will keep an eye on the noise and your idea may be my plan B

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

You also need to watch the washers that are supplied to go between banjo and gear pairs as they are different thicknesses which is intended to space the gears so they don't rub.

[petro1headParticipant @petro1head]

Posted by Mick B1 on 15/10/2018 15:26:22:

You might test it with a thick bar – say 1" DMS or more – gripped in the chuck with a clock gauge against it. Push it back and forth and see if you get more than a few tenths elastic deflection. If it is that, you may be able to adjust out the play, but don't tighten it further than snug – it can be a bit tricky because the right setting is a small target to hit, no more than a couple of degrees of rotation.

Just done that test out or curiosity and no play

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

It's interesting, I have a telescope mount that is notorious for being 'noisy', to the extent that a popular belt-drive upgrade is often used primarily to reduce noise rather than improve accuracy!

I made sure my gears were properly greased and set up for minimal backlash (it's not a fast mechanism) and lo! I've been asked if my mount has been belt-modded because it is so quiet!

So yes, it is amazing what a difference setting the gear train right makes (on any lathe, the SC4 is noisy if the gear train is left sloppy).

Neil

[Howard LewisParticipant @howardlewis46836]

Gear backlash is important. Too little and there will be noise, and wear. (Probably similar to a loud whirr, or a grinding sound)

Too much and the gears will rattle, especially on an interrupted cut.

Using a piece of paper in each mesh to set the backlash should give 0.002- 0.003" backlash, which should keep things reasonably quiet. Heavy lubricant, such as chain lubricant or grease ought to quieten things even more.

Howard

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

It sounds like a bearing: if so my chief suspect would be a cooling fan rather than the spindle or motor. On my WM280, the cheap computer fan under the VFD makes a dreadful racket. It doesn't worry me much – when it fails I'll replace it.

Tracing where funny noises are coming from on a machine can be really difficult. Mine has two cooling fans, the motor, banjo gears, gearbox, leadscrew, drive shaft and loads of bearings. It's noisy at the best of times. I've had some success using a wooden rod as a stethoscope and keep meaning to buy a real one. Anyone got any other tips for pin-pointing odd noises?

Dave

[not done it yetParticipant @notdoneityet]

I avoid thick lube or grease on lathe gear trains.

Many gears have lube holes to the shafts they run on. Not so good if blocked with grease!

Any dust/swarf will stick to greased gears like the proverbial to a blanket. Not good for long term wear!

Quieten them by means of heavy lubricant, or grease, at your peril.

[Howard LewisParticipant @howardlewis46836]

Forgot to say that on the big lathe, my heavy lubricant lubed gears are under a cover, and any swarf falls outside the cover. Consequently, no problems over the last 15 years. Made an extension for the mandrel on the mini lathe to ensure that any swarf will fall outside the cover, not inside as is the standard set up. Can't see plastic gears and any swarf as a good combination.

If the change wheels are open, then frequent cleaning has to be necessary.

Howard

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