WARCO WM-250 lathe family and WM16 mill – 001

[mechman48Participant @mechman48]

Rik, & others with WM 250 & WM 14 – 18 range, a good link for machine mods & some other interesting items

**LINK**

Cheers

George.

[Ed DuffnerParticipant @edduffner79357]

Hello guys,

Has anyone converted their WM-16 to CNC or in the process of doing so? The things I would like to do are pointing me more in the direction of needing this e.g. I would like to mill(engrave) letters, numbers and features into parts. I also have a recurring back problem that I hope a CNC setup can help alleviate. Even bending over the lathe for an hour or so starts it off (due to see the Doc in about 20 minutes).

I've been looking at the kits available on Ebay for about £150 for PSU, 3 x Nema 23 motors, breakout board and motor controllers. these are from abroad. The kit in the UK is ridiculously expensive and probably the same stuff?

Thanks for any thoughts on the conversion process and these kits.

Cheers,
Ed.

[Another JohnSParticipant @anotherjohns]

Has anyone converted their WM-16 to CNC or in the process of doing so? The things I would like to do are pointing me more in the direction of needing this e.g. I would like to mill(engrave) letters, numbers and features into parts. I also have a recurring back problem that I hope a CNC setup can help alleviate. Even bending over the lathe for an hour or so starts it off (due to see the Doc in about 20 minutes).

I've been looking at the kits available on Ebay for about £150 for PSU, 3 x Nema 23 motors, breakout board and motor controllers. these are from abroad. The kit in the UK is ridiculously expensive and probably the same stuff?

Thanks for any thoughts on the conversion process and these kits

Ed – this looks like the same machine as the Grizzly G0704 or my King Canada KC20VS. They can come with different table lengths.

I did a CNC conversion from a kit, lots of stuff on my blog on it. blog is cnc-for-model-engineers.blogspot.com – heres a link: **LINK** Look for keywords "KC20" or so on the search box on the top left hand side.

The latest Model Engineer, Mick Knight gives his opinion that the conversions are not worth the money (using my words – mag not beside me right now) but I don't agree. I have a KX1 mill (with LinuxCNC controlling it, not the Arc standard setup) and it's a fantastic little machine, but the larger mill, with larger cutters just chugging away while you do something else is also a fantastic gift. (even if the "something else" is doing the kitchen washing up!)

I no longer have a "pillar drill" but use my "KC20VS" milling machine as a drill when required.

[Enough!Participant @enough]

Posted by Ed Duffner on 18/05/2015 15:15:43:

Has anyone converted their WM-16 to CNC or in the process of doing so?

I've thought about it a few times and would love to do it. In fact I have already converted an XY table to ball-screws and stepper drives and have all the electrical driving hardware already packaged to drive it with (3-axis). That was relatively easy though – I had a working mill (and lathe) to make the parts.

The problem with converting the mill though, at least for a create-it-yourself approach, is that you lose the use of the mill while you are doing it. That implies using a kit like this perhaps based on your specific mill or the acquisition of a set of drawings based on your mill so that you can make the parts before stripping the mill and have a reasonable assurance that the parts will fit. Use of a second mill would work too of course.

The other thing that's stopping me personally right now is the physical side of things. I double if I'm up to handling the weight of things like the table – otherwise I would have done at least a ball-screw mod before now. That's what actually induced me to convert the XY table – it's a lot less massive and could actually be mounted on the mill table (albeit with considerable height loss).

[Anonymous]

Posted by Ed Duffner on 18/05/2015 15:15:43:

Has anyone converted their WM-16 to CNC or in the process of doing so? The things I would like to do are pointing me more in the direction of needing this e.g. I would like to mill(engrave) letters, numbers and features into parts.

I have my own views on CNC conversion, which I am not going to air here, nor do I have any comment on the electronics. However, based on my experience of engraving on a CNC mill I suspect that you will be sadly disappointed if you try engraving without altering the spindle speed.

Some years ago I spent some time trying to engrave 5mm high letters in aluminium (6082) using single lip engraving cutters running at maximum spindle speed, ie, 5100rpm. I broke many cutters before I gave up. I eventually managed to get the jub done using a 3 flute 60° chamfering cutter, but even then I broke a couple of them. Before the CNC mill I had a Taylor Hobson engraver and that worked fine, but the spindle was running at around 18000rpm. So to engrave successfully I would suggest that you need to consider a spindle speed in the range 15000-20000rpm.

Andrew

[Another JohnSParticipant @anotherjohns]

Andrew – spindle speed and engraving is, as you have suggested, a bit of an issue. The little KX1 I have does "ok" on the engraving tests I have used. Spindle speed is around 7,000 rpm, so is better than many conversions. Attached is a picture taken from a "photoshopped" photo of a casting on a Canadian locomotive for a 7-1/4" model – first engraving tests from this engraving newbie.

Have also seen really nice work done on a Sherline CNC; small work envelope but a really nice little machine. Work was for a 3-1/2" gauge locomotive.

In my experience, the overseas engraving cutters work quite ok.

Certainly, the machining centres at work are incredible, but some cost more than a lifetime salary. You chose well with your Tormach, even if it is a stepper based machine, and has not yet been upgraded to the Mesa 5i25 card yet. (or, has it, and your articles were written before the change over?) Does Tormach still sell their spindle speed doubler?

Would have liked to get a Tormach 770, but am missing the vertical room to fit it, which is why for my mill #2 I went with the manual machine conversion. Life is certainly interesting – John.

[Ed DuffnerParticipant @edduffner79357]

Thank you very much gents for your thoughts and links, I shall explore with a cuppa.

I think at first I'd use the supplied lead-screws and I know they're not ideal but cost has to be kept to a minimum (might have to sell one of my guitars!). I have made a couple of Delrin lead-screw nuts for a lathe using the heating and splitting method. I could possibly do the same for the mill to help reduce backlash and I understand there's a setting in the CAM packages to set up backlash parameters.

Andrew, for the engraving work I have an old Black and Decker rotary tool and I believe the top speed is 24000rpm. I can probably make a suitable mount to place it alongside the main spindle for the small footprint that it will operate in. I also have a proper engraving tool, the vibrating type, but not sure that would be so good mounted on a solid machine.

Here is an example photo of the engraving I am thinking of doing. the letters are 3mm high. At the moment I'm making a guide jig to do this by hand with punches. I requested quotes to make a single stamp for this job and was quoted £78 by one company and £157 from another. both excluding VAT and P+P.

Thanks again,
Ed.

[Anonymous]

Ed: I've never come across backlash compensation in CAM programs. It would make more sense for it to be in the controller software? I guess that the other important parameter for a high speed spindle is runout, especially as the cutters are generally pretty small. The prices for the stamps seem pretty reasonable to me if you're doing more than one piece. And certainly so compared with the time, and cost, needed to do any sort of conversion.

John: I have a Series II Tormach, and it is still as supplied. At the time I bought it seemed to be the only sensibly priced CNC mill available off the shelf that would allow 4th axis machining and would cope with the size of work I do. The steppers do make some odd noises, almost musical, when machining arcs, but at the moment there is no overwhelming reason to upgrade to the Series III steppers that are on offer. Likewise I might at some point upgrade to the new controller, but there are many other more pressing calls on cash at the moment. I think the speeder (I thought it was a tripler?) is still available, but it is not cheap. If and when I need to do any more engraving or a lot of machining with small cutters (<2mm) I plan to invest in a secondary spindle and VFD, as sold by ArcEuroTrade.

Andrew

Andrew

[BowberParticipant @bowber]

I've engraved brass and Aluminium fine on my mill only running at 2450 rpm, you just have to go slowly. I tend to use a 3 flute carbide bit, it's not an engraving bit but more of a countersink. The trouble though it you have to control the depth carefully but it gives good results for engraved plates.
I'll try to find some photo's.

I also have a home built router running a Kress head, this is much better for plastics but isn't as accurate for height and XY control as it's using rolled trapezoid screws.

Steve

Edited By Bowber on 19/05/2015 12:22:26

[colin rawsonParticipant @colinrawson10944]

i purchased a rdg verion of the weis milling machines

its called the rdg -16vsm a few years ago

its the same as the warco wm14

and my motor brushes are on the way out whats the best place to buy replacements

thanks for any help colin

[John RuddParticipant @johnrudd16576]

Posted by colin rawson on 21/05/2015 12:23:13:

i purchased a rdg verion of the weis milling machine

its the same as the warco wm14 and my motor brushes are on the way out whats the best place to buy replacements thanks for any help colin

Warco?

[colin rawsonParticipant @colinrawson10944]

just waiting for a reply from warco

thanks colin

[Ron ValeParticipant @ronvale24328]

Does anyone know of a company who does a plastic cover to fit over a WM16?

[mechman48Participant @mechman48]

Got round to my toduit list & set to making a new compound slide gib key; the original provided was an abysmal piece of mild steel, obviously hand ground at the manufacturers, why it took me so long to do a new one is beyond me; probably down to the 'get your finger out ' not being to the fore front… , any how made a new one from brass, the original was a piece of MS roughly, & I mean roughly 3.4 mm strip, that should have been a decent fit into a 5mm gap. I made the new one 4.7mm which slid in nicely giving enough gap to nip up neatly. As you can see the original bore no resemblance to a proper gib key shape, also the undercuts in the dovetail corners were far too big, reducing the width of the bottom mating face, looks like the Chinese machinist picked up the nearest slitting saw to hand & whacked that through, undercuts half the size would have been more than enough & would have allowed more bearing surface on the bottom slide, anyway I now have a much neater fitting compound slide with no tight spots when adjusted & now moves nice & smoothly when I wind the slide back & forth…

The OEM gib key…

OEM 'gib'… couldn't even get the angles correct…

Piece of scrap steel ?…

Machining new brass key…

New key, much better fit, although dovetail undercuts way to big!

Also modified the locking screw…

That's another 'mod' off my toduit list…

George.

[its-smeeParticipant @its-smee]

At the back end of last year I purchased a Warco VM250V-F lathe and this year a Warco WM 16 mill. Since I purchased the Lathe Warco have modified the Stand and fitted shelves instead of a kick plate. As space is a premium I decided to "do a mod" The kick plate came in two pieces so I fitted suitable supports and using the plates created extra shelving

[its-smeeParticipant @its-smee]

I was able to obtain from work some scrap 5mm plastic sheeting and 10mm makralon from a damaged machine guard. After watching various video's on you tube and the picture of the "gold fish bowl" on this forum I decided to try to reproduce them. The rear chip guard is free standing and just slots down the back. The front guard sits on top of the table and does not inhibit the use of the "T" slot. I had sufficient material to make two guards, one with cutout for vice and one with a plain front for times when the vice is not being used.

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

You might want to add a couple of diagonal braces or a panel behind the shelves as the old plate in the middle triangulated the stand to reduce side to sid emovement. I went with draws under mine with a solid back to keep things rigid.

[its-smeeParticipant @its-smee]

A valid point Jason. the shelves are screwed down but as soon as I can get some sheet steel I will be putting a back on for extra support. The draws look good, I never gave that a thought. now I will have to come up with ver 2

[Alan RawlinsParticipant @alanrawlins60482]

Jason B, I do like your drawer idea, Did you buy the drawer runners from somewhere. The drawers them selves, did you make these and if you did what did you make them from? Do the drawer fronts get in the way of your knees at all? Apart from the drawers being useful they make a crappy stand look a lot better too.

[its-smeeParticipant @its-smee]

I agree Alan the drawers are a good idea. it is just a pity the colour is awful and doesn't go with the Warco Green

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

The basic 5 sides of the carcase is 18mm MFC ( Melamine faced chipboard) not the cheap 15mm contiboard stuff. Draw boxes from 18mm ply biscuit jointed with 6mm MDF bottoms, 18mm MRMDF drawfronts. Runners are easily available full extension ball bearing runners, not sure if I used 30kg or 50Kg ones.

There is plenty of knee room as the tray overhangs the cabinet and then the carrage handwheels overhang that so 8-10" knee room no problem.

I prefer to keep things in draws or cupboards, as the large hit & miss engines have quite a bit of cast iron I don't like picking things up and getting black hands so keep them away from the fine dust.

There is a space below the draws for a couple of ply "scrap" boxes where all the odd come in handy bits go.

Top draw is about 50mm deep and houses small cutting tools, inserts, blacksmith drills, centres etc

Then one that just takes 5C collets plush chuck jaws, change wheels and so on

Then an assortment in the two deeper ones below

J

PS I thought the varnished over yellow road marking spray was a good match to the carrage

[Alan RawlinsParticipant @alanrawlins60482]

The yellow colour may be a bit distorted in the photograph as I guess he has tried to make it the same colour as the apron on the lathe.

These benches , although they look quite nice are made from very thin material especially the top. Although my concrete floor was level the base of the cabinet and the top were far from straight and parallel.as well as being a lot less than sturdey. I ground the edges of each side of the cabinets to get them level in all planes but the middle bit where the lathe sits was very week. I ended up bolting a piece of 0.75" marine plywood to the top of the cabinets to give me a true base for which to fix the lathe to.When I checked the plywood top for being true and level after bolting it to the cabinets I found it was then spot on.

Before bolting the lathe to the plywood i inserted some lead sheet between the lathe and the plywood just in case there were any inconsistencies in the top. This made an excellent base for the lathe. I wonder how any one else got on with just bolting their lathes to the metal cabinet tops just as they came.

[its-smeeParticipant @its-smee]

thank you for the description of the drawers JasonB, I didn't spot the relevence of the colour, but as Alan said were you trying to make a match? you have now given me another project to add to the "to do " list

Edited By its-smee on 08/09/2015 18:02:19

[mechman48Participant @mechman48]

Ditto the drawers… another item on my toduit list… already have one set of runners, just can't seem to get round 'toduit'

[Frances IoMParticipant @francesiom58905]

any use ?

[Author]

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