Wanted stuart castings

[Nic BertelsenParticipant @nicbertelsen16379]

[Nic BertelsenParticipant @nicbertelsen16379]

hi, im new to model engineering, having mainly used my lathe for making parts on my kit car, but with that nearing completion I'm looking for a new project.

My 92 year old grandad (my inspiration)has made many models over the years including Stevenson rocket and others, and currently working on 2inch ransoms sims and jefferies engine, but he advised me to start with something like a stuart no1.

I dont have much available funds due to having twins 3 years ago so can't afford to buy new, so kind of hoping that some of you good people may have some stuart casting sets knocking around gathering dust that I might be able to purchase so that I can progress my model engineering hobby.

I do hope that someone can help

Cheers

Nic

[Brian HParticipant @brianh50089]

Hello Nic and welcome to this wonderful forum. I'm sure that you will receive many suggestions, and many of them will be good ones!

My own suggestion is that you make something that you really want to make, even if it is something complicated because you can always pick out the simple parts to make first and they will provide the experience to enable you to move on to other items. Having said that, Stuart castings are an excellent starting point, providing that you can get a full set along with the drawings.

Please let us know what you decide on.

Brian

[BazyleParticipant @bazyle]

Start with one of the Dad's engines that have been mentioned in other threads and use normal stock material. You can modify them to suit the material you have to hand. If you are into cars you might have a few bits you can use like an old brake cylinder, bits cut out of brake discs etc.

[Thor 🇳🇴Participant @thor]

Hi Nic,

If you find Stuart castings a bit too expensive Stew Hart has the Potty Mill Engine that uses stock materials, he is a member of this forum so you could send him a message and ask if he has drawings. There are a few build logs:

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You could also check out Elmer's engines.

Thor

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

As said any of the barstock designs will work out less expensive than casting sets, I recon some of my designs cost 1/3rd to 1/2 of what an equivalent size Stuart one would. Also you are probably more likely to be metrically minded and already have metric drills and taps so that saves spending out more money on tooling.

[Ramon WilsonParticipant @ramonwilson3]

Hi Nic,

I would support Jason here and seriously consider thinking on the lines he suggests. 'Castings' are seen by some to be essential but infact for the most part they can be dispensed with for the major part if not all of the time.

I have a good friend who could not see beyond buying castings but in the next moment complain about the general quality of them. Fabricating can produce very good results that will live up to expectaion in all but the most hard working of circumstances. If it's just to run on air or low pressure steam a fabrication will be just as serviceable.

I do this, where possible, in favour of castings for several reasons, not least the control of quality and in most part expense. The main block on this cylinder head is made from seven pieces of cast JB Welded together – it's for a working modified Stuart Double Ten working on 60psi steam in a steam launch. It should be stressed that the material does not have to be cast iron. Jason has many other examples to support this method too. This is not to say that castings do not have there place but to say that with a bit of thought there is a definite alternative.

Here's a thread where I first used this product and method to simulate castings, which may be of interest Waller engine. The engine, now several years old, exhibits no indication of how it was made and has run regularly at shows each year save this one since finishing it.

Good luck with whatever way you decide to go – making any engine is a very rewarding experience – a fact I'm sure your Grandad would be the first to agree to.

Regards – Ramon (Tug)

[Nicholas FarrParticipant @nicholasfarr14254]

Hi Nic, it's unlikely to find anyone willing to sell Stuart castings for much less than their market value, unless you are lucky to find someone who doesn't actually know what they have or just wants to get rid of them. I wouldn't have thought the No, 1 would be a first one to try, the V10 or S50 are more popular as a first build and there are published build guides for both of these and being less than a quarter of the price it is less likely to hurt your pocket if it all goes pear shaped. Building some of those mentioned from bar stock is much cheaper and if you make mistakes, it is again cheaper to restart on another piece of bar stock than buying a replacement casting. You can find books that have many different designs and levels of skill such as these Stationary Steam Engines but there are others.

Regards Nick.

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Also a barstock engine does not have to look like it was made that way as Ramon's table engine shows. These are a few of mine, only one is from castings though quite modified and several use just a bought in casting for the flywheel. They are all fully metric and share the same 24mm bore which is a nice sort of size to start with being not too small and fiddly yet not too big that you are buying big lumps of metal.

[Ramon WilsonParticipant @ramonwilson3]

Ah, see what I mean Nic. Jason puts me to shame with his output but then he doesn't allow himself the distractions that happen at this end.

Nice display Jason, is that the Benson in the background – was that really near ten years ago we were posting about that and the Waller engine over on HMEM

Regards – Ramon

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

No The Benson and the other larger engines (or the small ones come to that) are not there just the 24mm bore ones. That's the Muncaster "simple" entablature in the middle.

A quick look at the date on some photos puts the Benson as 9yrs ago, I've learnt a lot since then and gathered a bit more tooling along the way.

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

How odd, I've just prepped an article for the next MEW on just this topic!

Very much entry level compared to Jason and Ramon's work, but ideal for a 10V or 10H style model.

Neil

[Nic BertelsenParticipant @nicbertelsen16379]

Hi guys thanks for the input, I shall have a mull over next few days. Is anyone aware of any reasonable priced plans along with a build guide for barstock models? The guide quite important to me as I get to grips with understanding the drawings to a more detailed level than I currently do. I dont mind making mistakes thats how we learn but I have a habit of overthinking things and at least with guidance I can crack on at a pace that allows me to be productive whilst learning the skills and gaining the depth of understanding that I'm after.

I think part of the reason for looking at a stuart no1 engine was the huge quantity of information and books available for them,and I suppose a certain aspect of sentimentality as it was where my grandad started, then he did the triple then onto the complex builds of rocket and the current ransomes.

I think I will have to set the sentiment aside for sake of budget and find a similar engine that's not casting based, but preferably of the stuart vertical style so anything from no1 to 10 I suppose. 

Cheers again guys

Nic

 

Edited By Nic Bertelsen on 05/10/2020 20:12:01

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Was there a particular Stuart you liked the look of then we can point you in a more suitable direction.

[Nic BertelsenParticipant @nicbertelsen16379]

I think any of the verticals, but something as close to what my grandad started with would be fab from sentiment standpoint. Hes found out his old stuart no1 book for me to read.

Cheers

Nic

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Well if you have your sights on a No1 then the kit car will have to go

This set of drawings would give you a similar looking engine though as with a lot of Julius' drawings few have been made and there are some parts there that would be near impossible to make as he has drawn them. really depends if you are able to modify to suit your needs.

I have a design for the same style of engine though have not produced the 2D drawings yet from my 3D model or written the article to go with it for publication in ME. It is the same size as a No7 or the 7A as it is now and of fairly simple construction, ideally a small mill would be used but there is really nothing there that could not be done with just a lathe and vertical slide. I worked out what this would cost to build allowing for buying 300mm lengths of most stock needed with just a few larger items bought by the 25mm length and it came in at 1/3rd the current cost of a No7.

[LADmachiningParticipant @ladmachining]

Where has OP's first post gone? Seems to have disappeared.

Edited By LADmachining on 06/10/2020 17:29:58

Edited By LADmachining on 06/10/2020 17:30:06

[Nic BertelsenParticipant @nicbertelsen16379]

Jason I have to say the 7a you working on sounds of interest and more suitable for my available equipment. I've got a warco 240 and have vertical slide so could manage that. I do have access to grandads mill if needed its just 90 mile round trip which not a prob but trying to stay away as boys at nursery and don't want to risk him catching this virus.

The kit car stays lol, was a project me and the wife started together 5 years ago, but then after a very long battle we were finally lucky enough to have our boys 3 years ago so now I'm on own with build, coupled with being dairy farmer I only manage 3 or 4 hours a week on it sadly but its not far away now and virtually all parts are purchased so just plodding on.

Couple of pics incase anyone interested

[MeunierParticipant @meunier]

Driver doesn't look too happy, Nic
DaveD

[John OlsenParticipant @johnolsen79199]

From my experience here in NZ, the Stuart castings do come up from time to time in club auctions, but rarely as an unstarted set. Such a set would naturally be worth about new price anyway. I've picked up 3 over about thirty years, all unmachined but also all incomplete. The most complete was a double ten, with no cylinders, although otherwise all the major bits were there. I got the reversing gear kit separately, and also the feed pump, which I haven't added yet. With the double ten I also got some of a number 1, no flywheel or cylinder, most of the bits were missing and the column was actually a faulty casting, but it did not seem reasonable to ask Stuart to replace something that might have left them forty years before. I was able to correct that.

The last one is a triple, where I picked up just the baseplate for about $1 in a box of junk at a club auction. I've machined the rest from stock material.

What is more usual though, is that a partly machined set will come up at a club auction, generally from a deceased estate. I haven't done any of these, but a friend has. They are harder to deal with than a new set, since the reason they have been abandoned part way through is that things have not been going well. It can take a lot of work correcting misplaced holes and other machining errors, not a project for a beginner.

In some ways, a number 1 size engine is a better bet for a learner than a number 10, provided the machines available are big enough. The larger size is probably a bit easier to deal with. I don't know about recent production, but one problem with Stuart castings is that often there is very little machining allowance. By the time you have the faces cleaned up it may well be under the nominal size. This is OK so long as you know how to compensate elsewhere.

John

[BazyleParticipant @bazyle]

Stuarts do sell spare parts as being aimed at beginners they expect some mistakes. One of our club members chose a No 1 as it is easier to do by feel rather than rely on eysight at 101 yrs old.

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