Upgrading lathe

[Craig PotterParticipant @craigpotter35892]

Hello All

I am new to this site and new to machining i would like to start model engineering ass a hobby but I'm finding my lathe not capable of doing what i would like it to do.

It's a Osaki mml300, its 300 mm between centers and a chuck capacity of 75 mm, on the cross feed its increments are 0.001" and 0.025 mm and the deepest cut it can handle is 0.010" and 0.25 mm witch takes me a long time to machine anything. I am looking for a bigger lathe that will make bigger cuts has a bigger chuck capacity and larger between centers and would like to be able to change gears with levers for threading instead of changing individual gears.

I would be looking to spend about £1500.00 preferably new any help would be much appreciated for your help.

Like to lathe i have https://www.cromwell.co.uk/OSA2715000K

[Craig PotterParticipant @craigpotter35892]

[BazyleParticipant @bazyle]

Glad to see you have some idea of what you require. It makes it quite simple.

Look to the adverts on the right, click on Warco., Then click on metal working in the top left of the page that opens, followed by Lathes.

You can see just one lathe, new, and under £1500 obviously wanting to spend the lot to get the most metal.
else just click here. for the WM250V.
Chester don't have anything better.

I'm not recommending this lathe, just that it's the biggest you can get for your money, and new. You could get a slightly bigger second hand one off ebay but there are there usual complications with that.

[Ady1Participant @ady1]

My lathe was 125quid, must have spent at least 2 grand on tooling and bits-n-pieces in the following 3 years

[Russell EberhardtParticipant @russelleberhardt48058]

You will be hard pressed to find a new lathe at that price with a screw cutting gearbox. The only one I can think of is the 920 which is rather an old design now but Chester still sell it.

Personally I would forget about the screw cutting gearbox. How often will it be used in practice?

Russell.

[Ian S CParticipant @iansc]

I use the gear box on my lathe quite often as it controls the feed speed on the second shaft/feed rod, and I change feed from roughing to finishing, and facing.

Ian S C

[Bob Brown 1Participant @bobbrown1]

I do exactly the same as Ian so it has more uses than just screw cutting!

Bob

[Roger Provins 2Participant @rogerprovins2]

…. me too

[LathejackParticipant @lathejack]

Thanks to good old China, it is easily possible for Craig to get the new lathe he wishes for, and for the price he wants to pay.

£1500 is enough for a new Chinese made lathe up to 10 inch swing by 22 inches between centres, fitted with not only a quick change screw cutting and feeds gearbox, but also power feeds built into the apron giving powered cross and longitudinal feeds independent of the leadscrew thread.

Most of them have a very simple gearbox with just three feed rates, sometimes called a semi gearbox. But along with the separate powerfeeds built into the apron, this is still enough to quickly flick between a few thread pitches and from threading to fine longitudinal feeds, cross feeds and back again without constantly having to manually alter the change wheels. Only when the thread pitch or feed rate needed is outside the range of the gearbox do you have to resort to altering the change wheels.

Chester Machine Tools and SPG Tools both offer slightly better versions of the 10 x 22 lathes. Their machines are fitted with a gearbox giving nine feed rates, so this will further reduce the need to alter change wheels. They are also fitted with a quick release headstock spindle flange that does not require the securing nuts to be removed as on some, but just slackened, and a collar turned a few degrees to release the chuck, or whatever, complete with drive pins and nuts.

The price of the Chester lathe, which I think they call the DB10V Super with either enclosed or open type gearbox, has unfortunately just recently increased by £300, bringing it to just over £1500 complete with chucks and steadies. The SPG Lathe, I am sure they call it the SP2124, is I think just under £1000 with delivery, but the four jaw chuck and steadies are extra, but would still cost less than £150.

All the current Chinese 10 x 22 lathes offered by Toolco, Chester, SPG, Amadeal, Pro Machine Tools and Warco use mostly similar major castings, such as the bed, carraige assembly and headstock, and all have variable speed and power feeds with the leadscrew thread only engaged for thread cutting. Some use a separate feed shaft for the power feeds while others use a key way cut along the leadscrew to power the feeds. The Warco version also has an improved motor and inverter drive for the variable spindle speeds.

And as already mentioned, there is also the smaller 9 x 18 or 9 x 20 lathes which have gearboxes with nine feed rates and longitudinal powerfeed, but no power cross feed. These lathes have been produced for many years now.

Just over a year ago I saw Warco displaying a 10 x 20 lathe with an all geared 12 speed headstock plus power feeds and a quick change screw cutting and feeds gearbox with 15 feed rates and well within Craig's budget. But they don't seem to have advertised it since, and asking one of their salesmen about it at last years Warwickshire Show was a waste of time as he was clueless.

Anyway, I am sure Craig will find what he wants somewhere.

Edited By Lathejack on 16/02/2015 18:56:26

Edited By Lathejack on 16/02/2015 19:01:09

[BazyleParticipant @bazyle]

That SPG lathe is interesting but add in the extras for each lathe, 4-jaw, drill chuck, both essential on day 2 and 2 steadies not necessary quite so soon. Oh don't forget delivery whichs ome include and some don't..

A key feature of the Warco 250 (both versions) is the spindle bore is 26mm – That's quite an advantage over 21mm. The more expensive version has power cross feed (nice but not vital) and inverter drive (also nice and a lot of people on here are upgrading to this now on older lathes.)

Can you raid the piggy bank for a bit more? The biggest in the SPG range 2129 10" is twice the weight and looking seriously good value in the current market (new lathes). I wouldn't recommend this for a beginner though.

[LathejackParticipant @lathejack]

Hello Bazyle.

The only downside to that type of quick release spindle flange is that whenever it is fitted the spindle bore is reduced to 21mm, the Chester, SPG and I think the Sieg C6 are all the same in this respect.

I agree, the SPG SP2129 is a good buy. It is a version of the Warco WM290 lathe but with some differences. It is 11 inch swing with I think about 30 inches between centres. SPG ran out of stock last year and said they may or may not get some by May this year, so I didn't mention it.

The price they quoted last year included delivery, three and four jaw chucks, fixed and traveling steadies and the stand, and maybe a face plate. It also has a 38mm spindle bore and sometimes even a D1-4 Camlock spindle nose. It also has a much heftier tailstock with a larger diameter quill than other 290 type machines, but does not have the latest inverter type speed control, just the simpler variable speed as some others still do.

I was all set to drive over to SPG and pick one up last year, but at the last moment they emailed me to say the latest batch they had received did not have the Camlock spindle, just the plane flange type, so I abandoned the purchase. But I am keeping a look out for them this year.

Edited By Lathejack on 16/02/2015 21:48:11

Edited By Lathejack on 16/02/2015 21:50:42

[Ian S CParticipant @iansc]

My Taiwanese 13 24 Belt head, back geared lathe has 40 imperial threads, from 4 . 5 tpi to 112 tpi, metric 23 pitches from 0.25 mm, to 11 mm. Diametral pitches 23, 8 – 224 DP. Module pitches 15, 0.25 – 3 MP.

The power feed: long .0036" – .1005"? rev

Cross .0012" – 0.690"/ rev, 40 of both.

I would say a reasonably versatile machine, I think there should be something similar available, probably from PRC.

Ian S C

Edited By Ian S C on 17/02/2015 10:12:53

[BazyleParticipant @bazyle]

Interesting information on the spindle bore there LJ.

Ian. That is a Warco BH600 style discontinued through lack of interest as gear heads got cheaper but still available as the Chester Craftsman. Price ….£2800 so not piggy bank more like HSBC swiss bank. It has gone up about £500 as far as I can remember in the last year while slightly smaller lathes as we see above seem to be coming down.

[LathejackParticipant @lathejack]

Ian.

That's a very nice lathe you have there, I remember them here in the UK. Warco used to sell them as the 1327 in the 1990's, the last quoted price was, I think, £3800. They also did two geared head versions during the same period, one with an open Norton type gearbox like yours, and another with fully enclosed box which cost around £5500 back then. My £3000 when new Warco 1330 is the Chinese version of that one.

The BH600 that Bazyle refers to is a Chinese made version of another good quality Taiwanese made lathe that Warco used to sell in the 1980's, I think they called it the 300B, or something similar, and these were also marketed as LAM and Lantaine elsewhere. These had the rare feature of a triple V bed, with the carraige guided by two V ways, as on Boxford and Southend, this feature was lost on the Chinese made version.

Sorry if I sound like a lathe geek or anorak, but I probably am.

Back to Craiges potential purchase of a new lathe. £1600 would get you an 11 x 28 lathe from Toolco, with a three feed gearbox and powerfeeds plus variable speed, 26mm spindle bore including both chucks and steadies. This 1128 lathe is the equivalent of Warco's 280.

Russell has a point in that you would be hard pushed to get a new lathe with a full screwcutting and feeds gearbox for £1500, but you can get something usefully close. The BH600 type machines that Bazyle mentions were not too long ago around £1600, but look at the price he quotes now. Toolco recently got a long awaited batch of them, and they priced them at £2100, all gone now though!

 

Edited By Lathejack on 17/02/2015 20:35:25

[Ian S CParticipant @iansc]

At the time when I bought the lathe, the same factory was producing lathe beds exactly the same as this, and in longer sizes for Colchester. I would have liked either the 1336 or 1340 size, but at the price I payed, I'm very happy with what I have. I could have had two of these plus some change for the price of a Myford Super 7.

The lathe has a 38 mm bore in the spindle, and I run Power Twist link belts.

Please note that the chuck is hanging from my home made electric hoist,  8" chuck, quite heavy. The hoist is powered by a garage door opener, normally 36volt, but running off my 18volt power supply.

Ian S C

Edited By Ian S C on 18/02/2015 10:29:59

[Craig PotterParticipant @craigpotter35892]

Hello all

Thanks for the feed back so there are plenty to choose from i have had looked at a couple of them and the SP2129 LATHE seem's to have a lot of what i wanted. Ill just have to save up a little more to get one until then ill just have to take light cuts and get big squiggles.

Craig

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