Tool Post for Myford ML7

[Phil WestParticipant @philwest50254]

Hi I'm a newbie, I just got my first lathe – a Myford ML7. I am looking to perform some basic functions – turning, facing boring etc. The lathe came with the original tool post for the quick-set tools (on the tool boat) so I have removed that from the lathe. I then bought a 4 way toolpost, which wasn't right for several reasons which I won't bother going in to, exchanged it and the next one didn't work either. Anyway the long and the short of it is can anyone recommend a quality toolpost / holder that will get me started. There seems to be loads of stuff out there, I don't want to waste any more money buying expensive paper weights. Lathe centre is 3.5" above bed, I have a long cross slide and standard top slide. So am looking for:

Fits on the 7/16" stud on my top slide

Tool doesn't move in tool holder once tight. Should be able to take the whole of a 10mm tool securely (not some of it hanging out the edge)

Tool holder doesn't move in tool post once tight

Tool post doesn't move on top slide once tight

Height adjustable for at least 1/4" tools up to 10mm tools

I only do odd jobs so quick change is not imperative – anything quality considered that actually works.

The cog on my 4-way post that bolts to the top slide means the post doesn't sit square to the chuck when you twist it – the stops on it seem to be out – so when I start turning the post just moves back against the stop and the tool is at an angle. Not sure how other holders work.

Any help appreciated!

Cheers

Phil

[Phil WestParticipant @philwest50254]

[NobbyParticipant @nobby]

Hi Phil

When I click the toolpost anti clockwise to the next postion them turn it back clockwise untill it's on the stop / pawl then tighten the main 7/16" clamp . If the toolbits are clamped it the 4 way tool post it should not move when taking a cut. . I f the post is out of square try moving the ratctet assembly round or do what i done make a new stop/pawl remember there is a little spring fitted to this
I can upload photo if required   This is on my S7 may be different to your ML7
Nobby

Edited By Nobby on 29/11/2012 16:58:47

[Grizzly bearParticipant @grizzlybear]

Hi Phil, Paperweights! Can you modify them so that they function? If you are able to cheat, turn the top slide a little until your toolpost is square mit the chuck, simples.

Tool height, pack them up with shims (washers, coins folded £20 note etc).

Regards, Bear..

[Phil WestParticipant @philwest50254]

Posted by Graham Meek on 29/11/2012 13:06:21:

Phil,

By "Cog" I assume you mean the tool post rachet?

Have you tried turning this rachet over? this will alter the position of the tool turret, as well as marking one hole in the ratchet and moving it around the tool post stud to one of the other bolt down locations.

Gray,

Hi Gray,

Yes you're right I mean the ratchet. I did try it both ways up, in all three positions, so 6 attempts in total. The best I got was fairly near, but no position was at 90 degrees to the chuck. I do have a pic but can't yet figure out how to post it. Cheers

Phil

[Phil WestParticipant @philwest50254]

Posted by Nobby on 29/11/2012 16:46:51:

Hi Phil

When I click the toolpost anti clockwise to the next postion them turn it back clockwise untill it's on the stop / pawl then tighten the main 7/16" clamp . If the toolbits are clamped it the 4 way tool post it should not move when taking a cut. . I f the post is out of square try moving the ratctet assembly round or do what i done make a new stop/pawl remember there is a little spring fitted to this
I can upload photo if required This is on my S7 may be different to your ML7
Nobby

Edited By Nobby on 29/11/2012 16:58:47

Hi Nobby – yes that's where I'm at – basically click it anticlockwise until near, then turn back clockwise a bit until it hits the stop. This means it's then not at 90 to the chuck. So I turn it back a bit and tighten the top clamp. The problem with this is – the ratchet used like this is doing nothing – it may as well not be there – I thought the idea of the ratchet was to provide a positive stop for the toolpost not to move against – just using the top clamp isn't enough to stop the post moving when turning. If this isn't right then what is the actual purpose of the ratchet. I may be able to redrill and retap a new hole for the stop although it sounds tricky to get in the perfect spot to give me a 90 degree angle. It's wierd that it's an original myford part but they never thought to design the ratchet so that it has a position where it will sit nicely square. Cheers

Phil

[Phil WestParticipant @philwest50254]

Posted by Grizzly bear on 29/11/2012 20:06:16:

Hi Phil, Paperweights! Can you modify them so that they function? If you are able to cheat, turn the top slide a little until your toolpost is square mit the chuck, simples.

Tool height, pack them up with shims (washers, coins folded £20 note etc).

Regards, Bear..

Hi Bear

I am able to turn the top slide in this manner however that means if I use the top slide screw to advance the tool it will be moving in a direction that is not in line with the bed/chuck which is why I was looking for a more permanent fix. Thanks

Phil

[Phil WestParticipant @philwest50254]

This is the best angle I could get.

[blowlampParticipant @blowlamp]

It's a long while since I've had a look at one of these toolposts, so I can't bring to mind the layout of the ratchet mechanism, but wouldn't it be a fairly easy task to make up a new pawl of a slightly different length, to bring things into line as you wish i.e., about plus or minus half tooth pitch or less?

Martin.

[MICHAEL WILLIAMSParticipant @michaelwilliams41215]

Hi Phil ,

Remove the ratchet wheel . I did this years ago and have never even missed it . Really and truly for most model engineering work tools need to be presented at all sorts of odd angles and tool post with no preset positions does exactly what is needed .

If I ever wanted to do repetitive work where accurate tool re setting was needed on a regular basis I'd use a quick change tool systems anyway .

Situation in larger sizes and in industry is different and the tool post indexing facility was once useful on repetitive production work . But even here the quick change tool systems are now much more common than four tool turrets .

Michael Williams .

[Robin teslarParticipant @robinteslar]

I was surprised at first when there was no detent on the tool block to align it at 90deg. I thought of drilling holes for dowl pins but its a lot of steel to go through and get it right – tool room job and would probably take a week. Then I had an SBP moment (stupid boy Pike). Its obvious that Myford intended you to align the tool block on the front face of the cross slide with your 6in rule. Simple, crude and not for the purist (but then it is a Myford?)

Its amazing how many design faults you can see in an ML7, I think I'll start a separate thread on this

Looking at this photo I can see some ready made screws, and if they were longer, could be the basis of an external detent system that clicks up to form a stop and you press down to move the tool block round.

[NobbyParticipant @nobby]

HI Guys & Phil
I would have thought when the toolspost was clamped down tight . wether square or not there shoud be no movement in the 4 way toolpost when turning . If so is your toolbit nice and sharp and ground correct or is the 7/16" nut/clamp bottoming before final clamping Its best to keep the topslide a zero for general turning in my veiw
Nobby

[_Paul_Participant @_paul_]

Do away with the ratchet wheel as Michael says I always found them a bit of a nuisance especially when screwcutting as I could never get the right angle on the toolpost to match the required topslide angle.

In the end I bought a Dickson type quick change post and some spare holders what a difference no shimming for a start.

_Paul_

[SiddleyParticipant @siddley]

I also agree with doing away with the ratchet, I have never found them useful either. My favourite toolpost was the Dickson as well.

There is also something fundamentally wrong if the whole toolpost is moving under cutting pressure. It shouldn't need a great deal of clamping force. Nobby makes a good point about that – is the surface of the topslide burred or out of true ?

[Grizzly bearParticipant @grizzlybear]

Hi Phil,

Nice photo, you sorted that.

I have a ML7 too, sounds like good advice to remove the ratchet, mine has never lined up square. I will remove mine. It can't be a bad thing, the toolpost moving away from the work (Under extreme circumstances). Better than a hole in your head!

Regards, Bear..

[Sub MandrelParticipant @submandrel]

The ratchet lines up just dandy on my cheap chinese import ;-P

Neil

[Phil WestParticipant @philwest50254]

HI all many thanks for your responses. It's a genuine Myford – I just got it from Myfords, it came in a Myford old box although it's not stamped on the main body anywhere. The first one they sent had a base that was 11mm thick – this meant even a 1/4 inch tool was above centre height. They said they acquired all the boxes from Myford and somehow that 4 way must have been in the wrong box – looks like it was meant for another lathe? Anyway I got the new one which has a 7mm thick base – this will take only up to 8mm thick tools – my 10mm are still a bit high. So apart from the ratchet issue I would now need to machine all my 10mm tools on the base, down to 8mm, in order to use them. Which sort of defeats the purpose of having the larger tools I guess. The first one had a ratchet which lined up perfectly on the lathe. Unfortunately I sent that one back – maybe if I still had it I could swap the ratchet over. Looks like there's a difference between the 2 ratchets.

To be fair the issue with toolpost movement is my fault – as my 10mm tool is too high. I started a test facing – once the cutting tip had no more brass to eat even with gentle pressure the turret moved. With the tool at correct height I'm sure this may not happen. I was still surprised however at how easily the turret moved even though it was clamped down. The topslide is perfect so it's not that by the way. Just made me think I'd rather just have the turret sitting against a ratchet stop in the first place, then I know it's all nice and solid.

I'm thinking just due to the ratchet being out – and really it should not be, coming from Myford – I may just return this one as well. The Dickson quick change type posts sound interesting. Can anyone suggest where to get a quality one that will hold 10mm tools?

Thanks

Phil

[Les Jones 1Participant @lesjones1]

Hi Phil,
From the picture of your toolpost it looks like the thread does not go down as far as the surface of the toolpost. Are you sure that the thread does not reach the end of its travel before clamping the toolpost fully. Try putting a thick washer (That fits over the unthreaded part.) under the clamping nut / handle.
As you say that the base of the tool holder is 7 mm thick and will only allow the use of up to 8 mm tools (I assume this is because the centre height of a 10 mm tool would be too high.) then to use 10mm tools the base would have to be only 5 mm thick. I do not think you will find a toolpost with the base that thin.  I removed the ratchet on my lathe as I found in a nuisance when positioning the toolpost.

Les.

Edited By Les Jones 1 on 01/12/2012 09:43:06

[MICHAEL WILLIAMSParticipant @michaelwilliams41215]

Les ,

Myford tool turret comes with a purpose made thick load spreading washer and this covers all the non threaded part of spindle . On top of that is either the box nut or clamp handle and sometimes there is a loose thin washer in there as well .

Picture of tool turret shows no sign of clamping marks at all – something very wrong .

Phil ,

Ratchet usually does almost nothing to restrain tool movement under load – your problem is that turret is not clamped down or is not seating properly . Purpose of ratchet is to index four positions for tool repeat positioning – and it doesn't do that very well either .

For the time being why can't you use the originally supplied finger plate clamp and at least get started with turning ? The finger plate clamp will hold almost any tooling .

General :

My Myford tool turret has a rather thin bottom flange and will hold both 8 and 10 mm tooling . Not ideal but it works for my usual light machining . When doing heavier work or where I have need for larger or odd shaped tooling I often put the finger plate clamp back on . Takes seconds to change over .

Dickson type tool posts are very good for frequent tool changes and can sometimes allow bigger tooling to be used because the tool holders hang over the edge of the top slide where there is plenty of space .

I have seen and used every possible tool holding system in industry but at home I have always found simple tool turrets and direct clamping quite adequate .

Regards ,

Michael Williams .

[SiddleyParticipant @siddley]

I'm sure I have seen Dickson type toolposts advertised as being suitable height for Myfords, but can't remember where

[TerrydParticipant @terryd72465]

Posted by Siddley on 01/12/2012 11:32:39:

I'm sure I have seen Dickson type toolposts advertised as being suitable height for Myfords, but can't remember where

RDG

Regards

T

[Les Jones 1Participant @lesjones1]

Hi Graham & Terry,
I have the "Chronos" quick change tool holder ( MX90) that they sell for the Myford fitted to my Chester DB10-G. I think this is identical to the one "RGD" sell (Ref 725MYFORD) The base of the tool holders is 6.0 mm thick which would give Phil a reduction of 1.0mm tool height. I have used this toolpost for about two and a half years with no problems.

Les.

[Phil WestParticipant @philwest50254]

Posted by Les Jones 1 on 01/12/2012 09:08:44:

Hi Phil,
From the picture of your toolpost it looks like the thread does not go down as far as the surface of the toolpost. Are you sure that the thread does not reach the end of its travel before clamping the toolpost fully. Try putting a thick washer (That fits over the unthreaded part.) under the clamping nut / handle.
As you say that the base of the tool holder is 7 mm thick and will only allow the use of up to 8 mm tools (I assume this is because the centre height of a 10 mm tool would be too high.) then to use 10mm tools the base would have to be only 5 mm thick. I do not think you will find a toolpost with the base that thin. I removed the ratchet on my lathe as I found in a nuisance when positioning the toolpost.

Les.

Edited By Les Jones 1 on 01/12/2012 09:43:06

Ok Les/all that makes sense. I measured the height of a lathe centre above the top slide – it's 16.5mm on the verniers. The base of the toolpost measures 7.1mm. This means a maximum tool thickness of 9.4mm – in fact a bit less as there's a bit of takeup between holder/topslide and tool/holder. Say 9mm max. So a 10mm is never going to work. Here I've been machining the base of the the tool, you can just see that it's still a touch too high. Bit more machining to do. Then on to all the other bits.

Also you can see another annoying thing – the 10mm tool has 4mm of itself hanging out the side of the tool holder – again would have liked to see all the base of the tool supported. Even using an 8mm tool would have 2mm hanging out. Not the best design from Myford. So the allen head bolts are only gripping the tool on the very inside – plus the bolts seem a bit undersized to me. In future I think I'll be buying 8mm tools.

Another problem resolved was the ball lock handle – you can see I've added a couple of washers simply because when tightened the handle was positioned directly over the work, I couldn't see anything – very annoying. Now the handle sits on the other side when tight.

I've removed the ratchet for now. When I tighten the toolpost down I can still shift it by hand with a fair amount of arm power. I guess those sorts of forces don't come into play when machining – however I'm still surprised it's possible.

Cheers

Phil

[Phil WestParticipant @philwest50254]

Posted by MICHAEL WILLIAMS on 01/12/2012 11:19:08:

Les ,

Myford tool turret comes with a purpose made thick load spreading washer and this covers all the non threaded part of spindle . On top of that is either the box nut or clamp handle and sometimes there is a loose thin washer in there as well .

Picture of tool turret shows no sign of clamping marks at all – something very wrong .

Phil ,

Ratchet usually does almost nothing to restrain tool movement under load – your problem is that turret is not clamped down or is not seating properly . Purpose of ratchet is to index four positions for tool repeat positioning – and it doesn't do that very well either .

For the time being why can't you use the originally supplied finger plate clamp and at least get started with turning ? The finger plate clamp will hold almost any tooling .

General :

My Myford tool turret has a rather thin bottom flange and will hold both 8 and 10 mm tooling . Not ideal but it works for my usual light machining . When doing heavier work or where I have need for larger or odd shaped tooling I often put the finger plate clamp back on . Takes seconds to change over .

Dickson type tool posts are very good for frequent tool changes and can sometimes allow bigger tooling to be used because the tool holders hang over the edge of the top slide where there is plenty of space .

I have seen and used every possible tool holding system in industry but at home I have always found simple tool turrets and direct clamping quite adequate .

Regards ,

Michael Williams .

Hi Michael,

I wasn't overly comfortable using the original clamp – it was designed for using the Myford boat tools so a standard square profile tool isn't the same – I could never easily or quickly get the tool held down properly – fiddling with the elephant foot to try and get the tool holder level didn't give me a lot of confidence. However neither has a four way post! I still found it very hard to secure a tool so it wouldn't move in any direction using the original clamp. With the tool at 90 degrees to the bed like in my photos, it just felt in the original holder that it could move sideways without too much stress.

Cheers

Phil

[Les Jones 1Participant @lesjones1]

Hi Phil,
There is no way you should be able to move the tool post by hand when tightend down. Are you sure that the conical shaped spacer is not in contact with the shoulder at the end of the thread. Try putting a large washer (Larger than the diameter of the bottom of the conical spacer.) under the conical spacer. The hole in the washer must clear the unthreaded part of the hold down stud. See Michael Williams comment about the lack of any marks on the top of the toolpost due to the clamping force. Also make sure that the bottom face of the tool post is not convex. Ideally the clamping force should be at the outer edge of the toolpost. Make sure there is not a radius on the bottom of the stud which contacts the hole in the tool post before the before the bottom face contacts the topslide.

Les.

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