Too lazy or too stupid?

[BazyleParticipant @bazyle]

Sort of prompted by the thread on books – people who don't bother to read nowadays.
On another forum someone today asked what type of thread the tap they had was for that was X tpi and Y in diameter. More than half the people on here would have known instantly but even allowing for someone being a complete novice all he had to do was put it into Google.
But there seem to be people who won't read a book or even Google something, – just go on Facebook and ask a dumb question (and YES there are dumb questions and they get asked by lazy people). Other days they are asking about changewheel ratios or other basics covered in many books and websites if they would just put in five minutes effort.

On cooking forums do people come on and ask how to boil and egg?

[BazyleParticipant @bazyle]

people today who don’t want to read books.

[Jon LawesParticipant @jonlawes51698]

Can't you google the answer?

[John HaineParticipant @johnhaine32865]

For some unfathomable reason my Gmail inbox gets flooded with questions from some forum called Quora. I seldom look at them except to delete the lot but most are unbelievably stupid! I only have a Gmail address because it comes with the territory using Android.

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

I'm sure you could google how to unsubscribe to e-mail notifications from that source or rather than have them all go into you main inbox have them go to a separate section such as Social or promotions. You can then either just leave them there or delete but it won't clutter your main inbox.

[HopperParticipant @hopper]

Posted by John Haine on 04/03/2022 07:28:15:

For some unfathomable reason my Gmail inbox gets flooded with questions from some forum called Quora. I seldom look at them except to delete the lot but most are unbelievably stupid! I only have a Gmail address because it comes with the territory using Android.

I've used Gmail for years and don't get any spam. It's very good. If you have ever logged on to Quora, you will need to go to your Quora account and change the settings so it does not sent you notifications. Or if you have not created a Quora account, Gmail at the top of the inbox has the ! icon to report spam and it will be blocked in future. Or click on the three vertical dots at the end o fthe line of icons and select Filter and create a filter to send any email from Quora to the bin.

[HopperParticipant @hopper]

Yes, I have noticed in the past couple of years a great reluctance by quite a few newcomers to the hobby and forum to read any of the many excellent books available in order to get a basic grounding, either the old classics by Sparey and Duplex et al, or the modern Chinese-machine-oriented tomes by Jason and Neil Instead they seem to like to sit back and be entertained by YouTube videos then come up with stunningly basic questions as you say,rather than read a book or even look up on Google what thread is X tpi and Y diameter.

I guess people just don't read books anymore? Or is it just the demographic that frequents forums is the same demographic that prefers YouTube over books so we never hear from the readers?

It's a shame because I think you can learn so much more in half an hour of reading GH Thomas or Tubal Cain etc than the very limited knowledge in watching a half hour video. The information transfer rate is not even comparable.

I guess I'm a dinosaur. I sit and read those old books and bound ME copies rather than watch TV. Plus read about two books a week on other topics and fiction.

[Tony Pratt 1Participant @tonypratt1]

I must admit I used to be an avid reader but spend too many hours on YouTube these days.

Tony

[Chris Evans 6Participant @chrisevans6]

I have always been a prolific reader, never watch TV and have only looked at You Tube on a few occasions. Google does get a fair bit of use though.

[john fletcher 1Participant @johnfletcher1]

I've just been reading Neil's book on the Chinese lathe, and Jason's book on the mill both very good books for the beginners regardless of the make of the lathe or mill. The pictures are excellent, and are informative.. John

[Former MemberParticipant @formermember12892]

[This posting has been removed]

[CirclipParticipant @circlip]

Oh dear Bazyle, how dare you question the "There's no such thing as a stupid question" brigade? Been critisized on numerous occasions for "Oh yes there is". NEVER has it been easier to find documented answers. Before t'internet, the only way to obtain such was to get off ones butt and go to the public library but now, the keyboard warriors are too lazy to type "Search" and it's too easy to suck someone elses brain cells, thus the same old same old repeat questions. Having said that, some forum search engines are useless. Back to the halowed pages of specialist magazines, questions, if considered important enough would take weeks to have an answer published, THIS media offers an instant 'Hook'.

Regards Ian.

PS. STILL no post numbers OR spline chunk.

Edited By Circlip on 04/03/2022 09:59:46

[Bob Unitt 1Participant @bobunitt1]

Posted by Circlip on 04/03/2022 09:57:53:

PS. STILL no post numbers OR spline chunk.

What's a "spline chunk" ? Google has never heard of it…

[Henry BrownParticipant @henrybrown95529]

I don't read books much these days but I do read quite a bit on the web so most of my old engineering and reference books are somewhere up in the loft.

It seems people don't look back at old threads either, I know the search facility is a bit limited on here but I've often found what I need only asking when I need updated info, for most folks it seems its easier to just ask the same question over…

I follow a fb geocaching forum, there seems to be daily requests for information that can be easily found on the geocaching website. I guess some people are too lazy to look themselves, however I sometimes think it may be a case of "Look at me I'm doing something special" !

[DalboyParticipant @dalboy]

I enjoy reading a book and have found answers in them for example I am riveting up the buffer beams and wanted to know how much of the rivet needs to be above the work so it forms into the counter sunk hole also found out that a full tapered counter sink is not ideal but one with a little straight sides gives a better fix.

Yes it would have been simple to ask or google. I do search but get so fed up of adverts which has nothing to do with what I am searching for but then I am just useless at computers.

I even try to search on here quite often to no avail again down to me not knowing what words to use to get the results I want.

I am also aware that asking a question can bring multiple answers as we all do things different as well as those that seem to just want to wonder off topic, which does not help a newbie.

[OldironParticipant @oldiron]

I must admit that I no longer read any of the "what lathe/mill" posts as they are so repetive. It is easy to do a search on the forum first. THEN after reading the previous posts on the subject ask only if a certain point has not been covered. It amazes me that people with many posts on the forum still have to ask the basic "what mill/lathe/pillar drill etc ? instead of searching previous posts"

One of my pet bugs is people who are obviously making or designing commercial products asking questions that are easily found in a book or by an internet search. Many of these are beginner questions so makes me wonder about the competency of the person asking. Are they just looking for the easy way out or cleverly utilising the hive mind ?

When I was in industry along with many of the members of this forum it was a matter of get a book/brochure/manual & read what if anything was on the internet or phone a manufacturer for information. We still managed to get through with not too many problems.

regards

[Phil StevensonParticipant @philstevenson54758]

The biggest benefit of asking a "stupid" question on a forum and getting answers is that dozens of other people learn the solution as well. An answer googled in private gets no wider circulation. Isn't that a good learning process for us all?

[CirclipParticipant @circlip]

Case and point Bob, Spell check would have corrected it and yes Phil, so would the Magazine if those interested had BOUGHT it. or ever attended the 'Free' WH Smith library.

 

Regards Ian.

Edited By Circlip on 04/03/2022 10:34:42

[HopperParticipant @hopper]

Posted by Phil Stevenson on 04/03/2022 10:23:28:

The biggest benefit of asking a "stupid" question on a forum and getting answers is that dozens of other people learn the solution as well. An answer googled in private gets no wider circulation. Isn't that a good learning process for us all?

Not if it's the same bleedingly obvious super-basic question over and over, like what thread is my bolt with Xtpi and Y diameter.

Then you get the other extreme where someone asks an interesting question and another members posts "I have sent you a PM" so the rest of the forum is left out of what is as you say a good potential learning situation.

I knew one crusty old tradesman who always maintained "There are no stupid questions. Just stupid boys who ask them." But he was a crusty old git.

Edited By Hopper on 04/03/2022 10:34:06

Edited By Hopper on 04/03/2022 10:45:40

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

When I saw the title 'Too lazy or too stupid', I jumped to the conclusion the thread would be about politics. Wrong again!

Sales figures show a significant drop in UK book reading since 2011 (source Statistica), but the 212,000,000 books sold in the UK last year suggest quite a lot is still going on!

I've no idea why book sales dropped in 2011. Probably the internet, but I've no evidence for that.

Back to the forum, I'd make the following points:

• Most people are good at something.
• Not knowing what I happen to know doesn't mean you lot are a bunch of lazy numpties! (The opposite is true.)
• Practical men often prefer to learn by doing. This calls for a different type of intelligence: jokes about academic engineers lacking practical skills aren't unfounded!
• There's no shame in ignorance. Just as well, because we're all ignorant outside our experience.
• Mechanical Engineering is a huge subject and it's just one of many Engineering disciplines. There's always more to learn, and the advanced stuff is difficult. How many competent Model Engineers would be derailed by having their manual workshop replaced with a bang up to date 3D-CAD and CNC installation?
• Beginners have to start somewhere. The number coming into the hobby with old school industrial experience is dropping. It's not surprising newcomers don't know about Sparey, Zeus, Machinery's Handbook, Model Engineer's Handbook, and the Workshop Practice Series!

I try to help and offer constructive criticism rather than throw rocks. Apologies when my poorly expressed posts don't always come over that way…

Dave

 

Edited By SillyOldDuffer on 04/03/2022 10:40:45

[Jim NicParticipant @jimnic]

I think that the "problem" , if indeed it is a problem, is that people coming in to the hobby today do not come from the kind of engineering background that many of us oldies do. The difficulty with Google and the like is knowing what question to ask and then understanding the answer, particularly if it involves a U-tube video which may or may not give correct advice.

In my opinion there are fewer members on here with extensive model engineering expertise than when I started 12 years ago so the pool of knowledgeable people willing to answer questions is reducing which of course increases the "workload".

We should be open and welcoming to beginners, as most of us are, after all we need the younger folk to continue the hobby and keep our suppliers going for the benefit of us all. If we do not like answering what we consider to be basic questions then we need not respond.

Jim

[CirclipParticipant @circlip]

Hopper, chill out mate, why don't you say what you REALLY mean

Problem with many answers to same question is how do you disseminate the 'Correct' one? Ask 20 'Ingineers' the same question and you'll get 20 different answers and I speak from a lifetime in the industry.

Many roads lead to Rome.

Regards Ian.

[HopperParticipant @hopper]

Posted by Circlip on 04/03/2022 10:41:21:

Hopper, chill out mate, why don't you say what you REALLY mean

Problem with many answers to same question is how do you disseminate the 'Correct' one? Ask 20 'Ingineers' the same question and you'll get 20 different answers and I speak from a lifetime in the industry.

Many roads lead to Rome.

Regards Ian.

Mate you will know when that time comes.

Yes indeed with multiple answers and that often is the way on forums too.

[John HaineParticipant @johnhaine32865]

Something I've noticed a few times on the Mach support forum is people saying something like "I just bought an XYZ router with Mach 3 and can't make it work" – usually the problem is in the way configuration is set up. They might then say "I've looked at this or that Youtube video but it didn't help". When you ask, have you read section xx of the manual, they haven't even looked for it. So the answer all too often is RTFM, and if that doesn't solve your problem then (a) maybe you shouldn't be dabbling in cnc? or (b) come back with a better question.

[CirclipParticipant @circlip]

A wise man once said."When ALL else fails, RTFM" sadly this was long before Chinglish.

Regards Ian.

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