Posted by Haggerleases on 15/06/2019 22:37:47:
I thank you all for your candid and reasonable arguments. I'm not a total 'noob' as the millenials call it, I have experienced good lathes in years past, Boxfords at school, Colchesters on the YTS, I've used linishers, grinders, cast things in sand, welded, brazed and soldered, all in the 80's and 90's as a young protozoa, just before these machines became landfill, but having to resort to a Chinese machine is painful. I am learning about the economics of mass production though this forum, and very interesting it is too.
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For the average working Joe in 2019, you're stuck with older lathes worn as smooth as an ocean pebble, or Chinese machinery, the produce of a dreadful communist regime.
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I think this underlines my earlier advice that Chinese Lathes are not for you! Those who've experienced professional lathes in good condition in the past often have unrealistic expectations of Hobby machines. It's because someone else paid for those Boxfords and Colchesters and no-one told the youngsters how much they cost. (I've met gentlemen retired after a lifetime's experience who had no idea how much their employers machines cost!)
If you want a new professional quality machine tool they are seriously expensive.
But, hurrah, you're NOT "stuck with older lathes worn as smooth as an ocean pebble". You have to be careful what you buy but there are still plenty of older lathes available in good condition at the moment.
Back in the day, second-hand lathes were very dodgy indeed. Operators paid piece-work rates would thrash tools mercilessly. Many manufacturers kept lathes until they were 'Beyond Economic Repair', meaning shot bearings, severe bed-wear, broken gearbox or other expensive nasty. Not unusual for new lathes to start in the tool-room, then slightly worn, move to production, then to rough work out back, including being used as an anvil. Things changed in favour of the hobbyists. Large numbers of manual machines have been displaced by CNC long before they were worn-out. Educational machines are often 'as new'.
Surplus machines can be an absolute bargain, once out-of-the-question expensive they can be had for sensible money. The main difficulties are: making sure it's in good condition, size and weight, transporting it, and the eye-watering cost of new spare parts. 3-phase is no longer a major problem.
What's sad for amateurs is I can't see any way that we will get our hands on high-end modern equipment. Chaps who think the world has forgotten how to make quality tools should take a close look at Machine Centres; fully enclosed simultaneous 5 to 11 axis CNC automatics, motors 10 to 60kW at 20000rpm or more, and bells and whistles galore. One I looked at quoted a maximum axis run-out of 0.02mm, which didn't impress until I spotted it was 1metre out from the chuck! Cost is a slight problem, found one advertised second-hand recently for £600,000. Even if it was given away I couldn't accommodate one: too big, too much electricity, too expensive to transport and requires professional installation. Not for hobbyists unless super-rich!
At the other end of the scale, lathes don't need to be fantastically well-made or in superb condition to do good work. Operator skill can compensate for many shortcomings. There's a lot of fun to be had from even the wartiest mini-lathe, just don't expect it to be the Jewel in the Crown.
Dave