Square socket chuck keys

[Brian WoodParticipant @brianwood45127]

Gentlemen,

I rarely find I need to ask for this sort of help, but I am getting bogged down by irrelevances in a web search and thought this approach would cut right through the chaff and get a result.

I have a need to supply, or make, a chuck key for a German made lathe back plate that incorporates a split clamp onto the plain register behind the threaded nose on the spindle. It is closed down by a square headed bolt driven by a hollow square key of 12 mm A/F dimension with a socket depth of about 15 mm

Can anyone point me in the right direction please to find a supplier as the preferred choice?

Thank you

Brian

[Brian WoodParticipant @brianwood45127]

[John FlackParticipant @johnflack59079]

Brian…….have you tried NAMO…… RDG tools may stock them

John

[Mike CrossfieldParticipant @mikecrossfield92481]

Woody

Would 1/2 inch be close enough?

If so you could cannibalise an extension from a 1/2 inch drive socket set.

Seasons greetings

Mike

[HOWARDTParticipant @howardt]

Rotagrip –

Pratt Burnerd Chuck Key 12mm Square

Length 165mm

Cross Piece Length 320mm

Part Number 8580-25395

[MuzzerParticipant @muzzer]

Howard – I think you'll find he's after a HOLLOW (aka female) key. That one is a common or garden male key?

Murray

[BazyleParticipant @bazyle]

Search 'plumber's tap key' and 'plumber's wrench'.

[JourneymanParticipant @journeyman]

Coming at the problem from the other direction: is it possible to replace the square headed bolt with an allen screw or normal hex bolt?

John

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

8 point sockets are available

MichaelG.

[Nathan SharpeParticipant @nathansharpe19746]

A 1/2 " drive socket extension bar should do it, male and female on one tool. Nathan.

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Posted by Nathan Sharpe on 18/12/2017 17:15:27:

A 1/2 " drive socket extension bar should do it, male and female on one tool. Nathan.

.

My personal preference would be to use something correctly sized, not 0.7mm over.

MichaelG.

[Clive FosterParticipant @clivefoster55965]

If a suitable key cannot be purchased a simple and effective way to make one is to weld extended sheet metal sides onto a suitable square core. A very quick and dirty version made by simply welding 1/8 or 3 mm (ish?) sheet steel sections to square key steel worked adequately for me in the past.

For a proper job I'd select a suitably large diameter rod, 18 – 20 mm perhaps, for the shank and cut a 10 to 15 mm long square on the end. Probably need to be touch over 12 mm so you have a nice sliding fit. As I recall it 3 mm sides were a bit thin when it came to distortion free welding. Probably try 6 mm if i ever do it again. Make the sides so the inner edges butt up leaving a nice 90° hollow corner for welding. Sides need to be maybe 5 mm overlong after accounting for due overlap on the square and a proper gap to weld round the top.

Make the side and end weld in several passes. If using a stick welder bottom passes in the corners need small rod & low current to keep a sensible corner inside. Inverter welders are generally much easier to handle on that sort of thing. Once its all stuck together trim off the rough end and put a slight taper on the inside end to help fitting. Finally turn the the outside to as suitable diameter and pleasing shape not forgetting to keep a reasonable thickness in the corners. If your welding was good you should be able to remove all traces of the weld so it looks hewn from solid.

Clive.

[Nathan SharpeParticipant @nathansharpe19746]

Michael, if nearer to exact size is required then all you need to do is remove the chrome, heat extension bar in the furnace equivalent of your choice and then" upset" it against the anvil. On the female end you would be reducing the internal size, on the male end you would increase the size. Finish with hand tools to your required size. A major advantage is that the tool would be softer than the, possibly vintage fastener. Nathan.

[David George 1Participant @davidgeorge1]

Hi have you thought of milling a square hole with a smallish diameter cutter and then broaching the corners with a piece of tool steel sharpened to 90 degree held in the mill or lathe rotating to cut all 4 corners. I have in the past made a square key from silver steel and hardened and tempered it after machining. It is still working after at least 15 years of use. I still have the piece of tool steel I used to sharpen out the corners with if it is any use.

David

[Brian WoodParticipant @brianwood45127]

Everyone,

Thank you all for the suggestions, potential avenues of exploration and methods of construction suggested. I might in the end replace the screw this tool fits with an M12 socket head bolt and use a hexagon chuck key instead to turn it. The lathe in question is 1940's vintage, hence the square headed bolt, but if the owner is happy with a substitution that might be the choice.

If he wishes to preserve the period appearance, then fabrication may indeed be the way ahead

Michael G I hadn't heard of 8 point sockets before, they seem to be hard to find as well, but of course 12 point would do equally well although the drive will all be on the corners of the bolt head

I am though grateful for a broad and helpful response, it is appreciated

Happy Christmas to all

Brian

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

'tis what you want here and many more available from the same part of the world

 

Edited By JasonB on 18/12/2017 19:42:45

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Posted by Brian Wood on 18/12/2017 19:26:01:

Michael G I hadn't heard of 8 point sockets before, they seem to be hard to find as well, but of course 12 point would do equally well although the drive will all be on the corners of the bolt head

.

Brian

8 point would be much more suitable **LINK**

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=metric+8+point+socket

MichaelG.

.

P.S. … I should have mentioned that they are also known as 'double-square' sockets.

Try this: http://www.uktools.com/12mm-3834drive-point-26mm-long-double-square-socket-p-63723.html?

Edited By Michael Gilligan on 18/12/2017 21:15:02

[Sam Longley 1Participant @samlongley1]

I have just made one. I used a large bolt.( it was all I had that was long enough) I milled the threaded part away by 50%  for 20mm to leave it semi circular in section.I then milled a groove the width of the square I wanted & half the depth along the bolt ( ie I wanted 8*8 so did 4*8). The length of the groove being twice the depth of the final hole (10mm).

I cut the bolt at half groove length(10mm) & placed the cut piece over the other half so i now had a round bolt section again with a square hole in the middle. I then wound a nut on to the 2 parts. I could do this because I had machined the threaded portion of the bolt & when the 2 parts went together it formed a threaded section again. I then ran some solder into it to stop the nut turning. I then stuck it in a lathe & turned the flats off the nut so it ended up as a ring around the square. Bar through the end & job done

Of course if overall diameter is a problem then perhaps just weld the small piece in place & omit the nut.

is that what the OP wants?

Edited By Sam Longley 1 on 18/12/2017 21:13:12

[Nick HughesParticipant @nickhughes97026]

Or

**LINK**

[Robert DoddsParticipant @robertdodds43397]

Brian,

Is this what you're after?. At £7 its not worth making and you can pick the size you want

**LINK**

Bob D

[Perko7Participant @perko7]

I think Robert Dodds has beaten me to it, but all the toolposts I have seen use square-headed bolts of varying sizes so it should not be hard to find a toolpost supplier that has a suitably-sized tool for your bolts.

FWIW i replaced the ones in the toolpost on my 1929 Ideal lathe with socket-head cap screws as i was making a few extra toolposts and wanted them all to use the same tightening tool.

[Martin KyteParticipant @martinkyte99762]

If you insist on making one.

either Drill the middle and file out square to make a suitable insert for the body and loctite in place.

or Mill a correctly dimensioned square slot in a piece of rectangular bar. Silver solder the other side on and turn down to produce the insert as above.

regards Martin

Edited By Martin Kyte on 19/12/2017 08:53:14

[Brian WoodParticipant @brianwood45127]

Having just returned to this thread after a decent breakfast, I think we have now just about exhausted the topic, except for me to express my thanks again to all of you who took the trouble to offer help and assistance

To put you all in the picture, Robert Dodds gave me the lead I was hoping to find and I now have a suitable key on order. For £7 post paid, it really was no contest.

Again, thank you and have a happy holiday

Brian

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