Spin machine

[Denise ConnieParticipant @deniseconnie57857]

Forgive the intrusion but after trawling the internet for answers I came across this sight full of very knowledgeable people and thought this would be the best place to get advice!

My problem is i want to make a spin art machine for my Art project similar to the ones they made in 1960 and copied by other artists since, I have tried using a strimmer engine and a home fan, the strimmer burnt out and the fan was not strong enough.

I need a machine that is speed adjustable and can also reverse, it also needs to be able to take some sort of plywood circular base (was thinking of two different sizes for smaller 20" canvases and a larger one) which I can attach a large canvas/ses measuring up to 5ft.

I would be grateful for any advice given.

Denise

[Denise ConnieParticipant @deniseconnie57857]

How to build a Spin Machine

[MICHAEL WILLIAMSParticipant @michaelwilliams41215]

Hi Denise ,

What sort of turning speed and how heavy is the artwork to be spinned ?

Neither answer need be exact – just some idea .

Horizontal turning spindle with artwork displayed in same orientation as a picture on a wall ?

MikeW

PS : Are you looking for something to be manufactured  – like an assembly of frame , bearings , pulleys , motor and other parts or are you looking for something more nearly ready made that you could buy and adapt ?

Edited By MICHAEL WILLIAMS on 25/02/2012 08:28:58

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

I think its usually done with the work horizontal, think of pouring paint onto a record turntable but at higher speed.

J

[MICHAEL WILLIAMSParticipant @michaelwilliams41215]

I've seen the horizontal table version done using electric potters wheel .

[Denise ConnieParticipant @deniseconnie57857]

Something I can adapt or maybe a motor of sorts I can can get off ebay. Horizontal, speeds around 900- 1400 rpm maybe but adjustable and reverse if poss. I have seen the potters wheel version which is a good base speed but i'd lke it faster! so something along those lines would be great.

[Les Jones 1Participant @lesjones1]

Hi,

I would have doubts about the safety of rotating a 5 ft diameter plywood disk at 900 to 1400 rpm.

Les.

[BazyleParticipant @bazyle]

The inertia during start up is a problem and what burnt out your strimmer.

Is it the machine or its product that is the project? You could improvise something in an hour if it was to be disposed of afterwards. Also what is your budget?

One problem is to attach a ply plate to an axle. If you look in the back of a scrap washing machine you will find many of them have a short axle welded into a 3 branch 'birds foot' to attach to the drum. Another possibility is the base of an office swivle chair. Then just hammer a tube into the ground, insert axle and spin by hand.

If you want to go up market, ie pay money, look for a wood lathe like a Record Coronet on ebay which have a detachable head on a tube base. They have several speeds and tough bearings and a 'faceplate' for the plywood. You know where I'm going next….hammer a bigger tube into the ground….

Edited By Bazyle on 25/02/2012 09:34:45

[Denise ConnieParticipant @deniseconnie57857]

Hi, @ Les, the plywood only needs to be big enough to secure the middle bar sections of the canvas to, it doesn't need to be 5ft

http://makeprojects.com/Project/Giant-Spin-Art/482/1

the above is where I the main idea from.

@Bazyle the lathe sounds a good idea does "record coronet" refer to a make of lathe or type? I would like to have control over the speed but think I would build some sort of base for it to sit in as I would like to use it again ).

[alan knightParticipant @alanknight67321]

Record is the manufacturer, Coronet was the model, the speed is adjustable by means of drive belts and pullys in the headstock. I still think that would need a helping hand to spin a 5' dia of ply, the speeds your thinking of really you would need a base made up in a x formation with a rollerbearing ring supporting the ply then a proper hub in the center made up, really that all wants fabricating and then personally I would just stick a 2hp motor with a variable speed contorol in the center. As the momentum built up in spinning a 5' disk at close to 1000rpm would be immense, just expecting it to hover there supported by the headsock bearings of a woodturners lathe is frankly pie in the sky. Do you really need the speeds that high or the area that large? and could you repurpose it afterwards. If you could find a buyer after it may be worth investing. But I wouldent go about things in a half assed manner as 5' of 3/4" ply at 1000rpm could easly break someone leg is not worse and getting it up to 1400rpm is even more precarious as you would really need a machine built to do so, again with a frame and a roller support ring and a central mounting hub and some form of gear box as by my simple calculation if your motor has 1" drive shaft and your board has a 60" diameter then you are getting a 60:1 reduction in face speed based of a 2800rpm motor your board would only be achieveing 46 rpm. So based on that logic you would need a gear box able to convert a 2800rpm spindle speed up by a ratio of 1:21.4 which would lead to a shaft speed of 60000rpm for an inch shaft on the hub base. Leading to a face speed of 1000rpm on your board.

[MICHAEL WILLIAMSParticipant @michaelwilliams41215]

Hello again Denise ,

So all you really need is something like a potters wheel but better adapted to your purpose and with broader and especially higher speed range . You can actually do all of this just with a modern electric motor and electronic speed control . Mount the motor axis vertical on a solid stand and use large bought pulley as mounting for canvas frame centre .

There are lots of suppliers and lots of ways of doing this so first off have a browse here :

http://www.newton-tesla.com/products/index.htm

These people supply industrial versions of what is needed but there is a lot of good basic explanation on the site .

An alternative cheaper way would be to use an ordinary largish variable speed power drill , one stage of belt and pulley speed reduction and a DIY working spindle .

Simpler still would be a cheap (Clarke) fixed speed motor , belt drive again , but with stepped pulleys to give two or three alternative fixed speeds .

For your larger work it would be best to keep speed to modest levels for safety .

If you are doing this work in a college they may require you to have safety guards . Putting the spinning table in a simple wooden box with only the top surface showing would probably suffice .

MikeW

[Denise ConnieParticipant @deniseconnie57857]

@ alan Knight, yes I think your right, a 5ftcanvas is a bit of a dream, maybe 3 ft max would be better. I've tried the drill method on a 3 x 2 ft canvas and that died so i'm looking for something better and don't mind paying for 2nd hand motor, i'm looking at spending upto £100-£150 for something thats going to work for the purpose.

[MICHAEL WILLIAMSParticipant @michaelwilliams41215]

Nothing much to do with the original posting but it is always interesting to look for complete alternatives to a problem .

Most obvious alternative is to keep canvas still and move the paint source in a systematic way .

Simple way would be a harmonograph pendulum . More challenging way would be CNC with randomising pattern generation .

MikeW

[Roderick JenkinsParticipant @roderickjenkins93242]

Denise,

Just to put it into perspective, at 1400rpm the perifery of a 5' diameter disc will be doing around 250mph. As Alan suggests, you might want to re-think your requirements. A plywood dsc would probably burst at the sort of centrifugal force generated at these speeds. I'd be inclined to stick to the battery drill in your example. You can start the disc spinning by hand which will help overcome the starting inertia.

Cheers,

Rod

[MICHAEL WILLIAMSParticipant @michaelwilliams41215]

And halfway between is idea of rotating table at a slow or intermittent speed like an engineering rotary table and having one axis paint carrier .

[alan knightParticipant @alanknight67321]

Iv yet to find a drill that would handle that kind of abuse, you could get an electric motor off ebay for around £150 that will do 2800 rpm and spin 3' of ply till the cows come home, a slower running 1450rpm even more so. Just a simple collar boss needed to rig board to motor. Then some sort of stand to mount motor to floor. Thats the way i would go.

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Michael, Some of those alternatives you suggest won't work as the "spin" is used to get the paint to flow outwards by centrifugal force.

A quick google turns up lots of small versions for kids, maybe just get one of those and mount a bigger board to it.

I quite like this bicycle driven version, there is some substantial gearing up going on there

J

Edited By JasonB on 25/02/2012 17:04:34

[Denise ConnieParticipant @deniseconnie57857]

If I was to purchase this http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Clarke-Woodworker-20-wood-lathe-chisels-/160741657291?pt=UK_Crafts_Other_Crafts_EH&hash=item256cf30acb would I be able to adapt it.

[alan knightParticipant @alanknight67321]

No as that lathe is tiny and you would get more horse power out of a shrew.

[Ian S CParticipant @iansc]

One place to get a suitable hub could be an auto wreckers yard,look for a front axle and hub assembly, a bit of imagination, and engineering would give a strong base to start from. Ian S C

[Denise ConnieParticipant @deniseconnie57857]

@MikeW, I love the idea of the Harmonograph and CNC but the CNC would be a bit of a challenge, how would I go about making something that would hold paint.

@AlanKnight, I will look for another motor as you suggested and forget the shrew!

I'm off to work now so please don't think i'm ignoring your responses, looking forward to reading them when I get home.

Denise

[David Clark 13Participant @davidclark13]

Hi There

Why not use a vertically mounted airbrush.

You could use one with the add on pot on the side and turn it to suit.

regards David

You could probably control the airbrush trigger as well.

[David Clark 13Participant @davidclark13]

Hi There

I think you are looking at this backwards.

A 5 foot diameter canvas spinning fast is stupid.

You need a spinning arm with an airbrush mounted on it that can move in and out as the arm spins.

This would only be a 2 foot 6 inch radius, easily possible even if you had to use some sort of on board (on arm) controller or remote wireless controller.

regards David

regards David

[Ian PParticipant @ianp]

David

The whole point of the project is to rotate the job!

If the canvas was stationary centrifugal force would be absent so Denise would not be able to create her artwork.

 

Ian P

Edited By Ian Phillips on 26/02/2012 16:08:12

[Denise ConnieParticipant @deniseconnie57857]

Thank you so much for your help and advice so far, this isn't as easy as I thought Im more of a girlie than I thought! I'm so glad I asked for your help. Im going to take it step by step so first can I have your opinions of the motor only picking the right one is not as easy as it sounds

Are any of these motors any good?

Myford

3 phase

Single phase

Edited By David Clark 1 on 27/02/2012 00:13:57

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