Recommend T handle metric key set

[davebParticipant @daveb17630]

Posted by JasonB on 01/02/2018 07:30:23:

I also like the Eklind tee ones, proper metal tee not a plastic moulding on a L shape.

If you are filing down ends are you mixing metric keys and imperial fixing

If you are filing the ends of Allen keys, you have c**p Allen keys.

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

Posted by Muzzer on 01/02/2018 10:36:12:

The original Allen keys used to have some form of guarantee eg they would always twist (deform) by half a turn before they finally failed.

…

Murray

Somewhere I picked up the idea that Allen keys were sized to apply the correct torque to a screw by hand. Basically you tighten up quickly with the short end and then, switching to the long end as handle, push the end of the key until it just bends. Seems to work for me and avoids stripping threads. If undoing requires more force I use a socket set.

An ex-Army colleague is convinced that you should extend spanners with a length of pipe, give them a good hard pull and then hit the end with a big hammer. Although he's a big bloke, he thinks bolt heads shear and threads strip because the steel is 'cheap'. He can't remember who told him to hammer on an extender.

Is there any sense in my Allen key idea, or in my friend's gorilla approach, or are we both daft?

Dave

[Gordon WParticipant @gordonw]

I prefer " proper" hex keys, ie. one long one short side. Set for imperial and one for metric, not a lot of money for decent quality. I also have a set of hex keys for a 1/4" socket set which do all the heavy stuff. What make ? can't remember, but never had a breakage.

[petro1headParticipant @petro1head]

I managed to find a set on Amazon for a good price, granted I will have to wait but in no hurry – https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00012Y38M/ref=ox_sc_sfl_title_1?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=A2KVF7QXNCLV8H

 

Edited By petro1head on 01/02/2018 14:11:13

[clogsParticipant @clogs]

Mr. S Duffer,

ur friend prob didn’t have to pay for the damage he left behind…..

I have some well used flogging spanner’s tho……hahaha……clogs

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

No suggestions for a source of 'allen screwdrivers'?

I can only find sets that take the little inserts.

I have one that I filed up myself from a tired screwdriver for M6 screws, but I would really like a decent set.

P.S. Dave – I have always understood that screwdrivers and allen keys are usually sized so that single-handed an average person will find it hard to over-tighten a fixing. Increasingly I find myself using the short part only to nip up allen screws. I have some (expensive) double length M6 ones that are much harder to loose (they are also silver) but I use them very gently.

[Billy BeanParticipant @billybean67480]

The Amazon listing states :-

Manufacturer warranty will not apply. Please check Amazon’s return policy, which usually offers free returns within 30 days of receipt.

Interesting to note Bondhus warranty only applies to the US ?

[MWParticipant @mw27036]

Posted by Billy Bean on 01/02/2018 17:02:37:

The Amazon listing states :-

Manufacturer warranty will not apply. Please check Amazon’s return policy, which usually offers free returns within 30 days of receipt.

Interesting to note Bondhus warranty only applies to the US ?

That's because it's an American firm, and thus they do most of their business there, and they probably think the cost of shipping new keys would be too costly for them.

Michael W

[Billy BeanParticipant @billybean67480]

Just bought my Bondhus hex keys and just checked supplier and clearly states a lifetime warranty applies.

Somewhat puzzled why Amazon state — Manufacturer warranty will not apply ?

I bought from an authorised UK Bondhus supplier.

Please tell me if I am getting confused on this but as i understand if you buy direct from US via Amazon then no warranty but buy in UK from their authorised supplier and you get the lifetime warranty ?

 

Edited By Billy Bean on 01/02/2018 17:29:53

Edited By Billy Bean on 01/02/2018 17:33:04

[Michael BriggsParticipant @michaelbriggs82422]

Posted by Neil Wyatt on 01/02/2018 17:00:42:

No suggestions for a source of 'allen screwdrivers'?

I can only find sets that take the little inserts.

Neil, what sizes do you need, is it for small stuff, telescope screws for example or bigger things up to M8 ?

Edited By Michael Briggs on 01/02/2018 17:51:37

[Tim StevensParticipant @timstevens64731]

If you buy in the UK as a retail customer from a trade shop (ie not from a mate or in the pub car park or a boot sale) you have a range of rights under Sale of goods legislation. Merchantable quality, meets description, and fit for purpose required (if you remember to say, with a witness). I am not sure what cover you get if you buy in the UK from a foreign shop, but I'm sure someone can remind us … ?

Tim

[Mike PooleParticipant @mikepoole82104]

Wera make hex drivers from small instrument sizes to at least 10mm. Very good quality but you pay for it.

Mike

Edited By Mike Poole on 01/02/2018 18:15:24

[Raymond AndersonParticipant @raymondanderson34407]

Stahlwille, Beta, Wiha, Wera all superb makes. Spendy but superb none the less.

[Martin 100Participant @martin100]

Posted by Neil Wyatt on 01/02/2018 17:00:42:

No suggestions for a source of 'allen screwdrivers'?

I can only find sets that take the little inserts.

RS, Farnell and CPC do Wera (green and black handles), in sizes from circa 1mm to 10mm. RS & Farnell do Wiha (red and black handles) maybe in the same range but certainly from 3mm upwards

Once you have a part number you might find them discounted on Ebay

Proper manufacturing in Germany doesn't come cheap though

http://www.rswww.com

uk.farnell.com

cpc.farnell.com

[MuzzerParticipant @muzzer]

Posted by Neil Wyatt on 01/02/2018 17:00:42:

No suggestions for a source of 'allen screwdrivers'?

I can only find sets that take the little inserts.

I'm pretty sure I got my Wiha brand drivers from CPC individually but I see Axeminster do a Proxxon set.

Murray

Note – CPC and Farnell are sister companies but usually CPC stuff is often / usually a fair bit cheaper. That's borne out when you compare the price of the same tools from the link above to those from Farnell.

Edited By Muzzer on 01/02/2018 18:47:42

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Posted by Neil Wyatt on 01/02/2018 17:00:42:

No suggestions for a source of 'allen screwdrivers'?

Did you not see my link earlier? Or are you after plain hex rather than ballended?

[Mike PooleParticipant @mikepoole82104]

Posted by SillyOldDuffer on 01/02/2018 13:54:57

Somewhere I picked up the idea that Allen keys were sized to apply the correct torque to a screw by hand. Basically you tighten up quickly with the short end and then, switching to the long end as handle, push the end of the key until it just bends. Seems to work for me and avoids stripping threads. If undoing requires more force I use a socket set.

An ex-Army colleague is convinced that you should extend spanners with a length of pipe, give them a good hard pull and then hit the end with a big hammer. Although he's a big bloke, he thinks bolt heads shear and threads strip because the steel is 'cheap'. He can't remember who told him to hammer on an extender.

Is there any sense in my Allen key idea, or in my friend's gorilla approach, or are we both daft?

Dave

I am finding a tube extension is increasingly useful, I find that I was a much more powerful lad when I was 25 than I am now at 61. Using a long lever should be used to make life easy not apply a super torque to a bolt. I remember doing the front wheel bearings on a Maxi and the hub nut needed tightening to 185 ftlb, a bit of extra leverage is definitely required for most people. A friend was an engineer in the merchant navy and would check a nut was tight by tapping with a hammer. Marine engines probably don't use many BA bolts though.

Mike

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

Posted by JasonB on 01/02/2018 18:32:32:

Posted by Neil Wyatt on 01/02/2018 17:00:42:

No suggestions for a source of 'allen screwdrivers'?

Did you not see my link earlier? Or are you after plain hex rather than ballended?

Missed that!

Unfortunately just blew what remains of my Christmas Money on a much reduced astronomy camera… but I will keep the link.

In answer to someone else's questions, just normal sizes for modest metric fixings, especially ones in awkward places.

[Peter G. ShawParticipant @peterg-shaw75338]

Somewhere I picked up the idea that spanners and similar tools were sized such that the average person could apply the correct amount of torque without using excessive force. That makes a lot of sense to me, therefore those people who use extensions of any descriptions or hammers for that bit extra tightness are most likely distorting the items concerned, to say nothing of the increased possibility of stripping the thread.

This was brought home to me by an acquaintance who used to do MOT servicing on my car many years ago. I was in the habit of tightening wheel nuts with a ring spanner until the nut/stud/bolt "squeaked". He told me off for overtightening the nuts and when I used my torque wrench I was somewhat taken aback to discover that he was correct and that the recommended value was a lot lighter than I thought. Since then I have been rather more careful when tightening items.

However, in the same manner as Mick Poole above, the rear axle nuts on my VW Beetle were somewhere in the region of 220 ft lbs. which is well outside the range of my torque wrench. The Haynes workshop manual recommended tightening the nut to the maximum of the torque wrench, eg 150 ft lbs, and then turn the nut further until the locking cotter pin could be inserted in the next pair of holes, the idea being that although I could not measure the torque, the extra little bit of turning on the nut would be sufficient.

Regards,

Peter G. Shaw

[JonParticipant @jon]

Have 4 engineering co's worth of proper English allen keys, they dont make them like they used to.

Saying that best of the current crop are Wera but only the plastic sleeved ones. Unsleeved polished shiny are too britle. Where Wera score over and above all others is the fit. Better fit means more grab and less prone to rounding hex off!
https://www.ebay.co.uk/p/Wera-073599-9-Piece-Multi-Colour-Security-Torx-Key-Ball-End-Set/1733149806?iid=131561350833&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIM.MBE%26ao%3D2%26asc%3D49925%26meid%3D1d6e792c8e4a4c5bb251e62d0ba1189d%26pid%3D100623%26rk%3D4%26rkt%3D6%26mehot%3Dag%26sd%3D151558452544%26itm%3D131561350833&_trksid=p2047675.c100623.m-1

Unfortunately they dont do in T and faced same problem as OP ending up trying one of each out from various respected producers.
Bondhus are very good, the fit in the hex is on the poorer side than Wera and also get a lot of shaft flex/twist, touch wood not broken one yet. Serious stuff i spin in with the Bondhus and tighten up with the Wera.

Worst came across were expensive from Italy with the T handle a sliding bar. Plated with black drives. Fitment really poor it couldnt undo literally a nip up done with a Wera, far from tight and of course rounded the hex grub screw. To the rescue Wera undone that screw but Bondhu slipped.

[HOWARDTParticipant @howardt]

Was talking to someone recently who said his company h&s had banned plastic handled tee hex wrenches because of chance of breaking. Mad.

[pa4c pa4cParticipant @pa4cpa4c85075]

Bondhus are the original inventors of the ball head Allen key. There warrenty is very good but maybe only in the states.

PB Swiss are probably the best you can buy now but certainly the most expensive,

https://www.onlyqualitytools.com/catalog2/PB_Swiss_Tools/PB_212.LK_Ti.html

[Martin KyteParticipant @martinkyte99762]

Doesn't anyone make their own? It's a good way of recycling old allen keys.

regards Martin

[MuzzerParticipant @muzzer]

Posted by Peter G. Shaw on 01/02/2018 21:11:07:

I was in the habit of tightening wheel nuts with a ring spanner until the nut/stud/bolt "squeaked". He told me off for overtightening the nuts and when I used my torque wrench I was somewhat taken aback to discover that he was correct and that the recommended value was a lot lighter than I thought. Since then I have been rather more careful when tightening items.

However, in the same manner as Mick Poole above, the rear axle nuts on my VW Beetle were somewhere in the region of 220 ft lbs. which is well outside the range of my torque wrench. The Haynes workshop manual recommended tightening the nut to the maximum of the torque wrench, eg 150 ft lbs, and then turn the nut further until the locking cotter pin could be inserted in the next pair of holes, the idea being that although I could not measure the torque, the extra little bit of turning on the nut would be sufficient.

Regards,

Peter G. Shaw

If they squeak, you probably haven't lubricated them. Nuts and bolts are more secure if you lightly oil the threads before fitting and torquing them up and that's how they are supposed to be applied. Conversely, if they are dry and possibly dusty / rusty, you can't consistently control the tightening process – you may apply a high torque to the nut / bolt but much of that may have been lost on the high coefficient of friction, with the result that you don't actually know what preload you have applied to the nut / bolt fastening.

You may find that applying 220 lbft to dry squeaky nuts has the same tightening effect as specified 150 lbft – but there is no way of knowing. Worst of all is the risk of fastenings either coming loose or failing further down the road. As I said above, they are more secure when applied in a clean and consistent state, which is how they are assembled new.

Murray

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

Posted by Peter G. Shaw on 01/02/2018 21:11:07:

, the rear axle nuts on my VW Beetle were somewhere in the region of 220 ft lbs.

Presumably the extra torque is needed because of the tendency of Beetles to shake themselves to pieces…

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