polishing in the lathe

[mechman48Participant @mechman48]

Foam rubber rubbing pads are readily available at all DIY outlets now so they can be held to conform to any shape for polishing, for final polish I have used Duraglit Brasso impregnated wadding ( usual disclaimer ) tear off a small piece, use it then discard. I have since bought a 'pig tail' made a mandrel for it for the lathe & 3 different buffing wheels, appropriate polish sticks, & apply the 'job to' the buffing wheels.

N.B I am still aware of the spinning chuck so I take appropriate precautions when I'm in my man cave, no jewellery,watches, or long sleeves or well rolled back, no doubt other members have their own methods.

George.

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

No, it isn't safe. Risk is usually expressed as the impact of the accident multiplied by its likelihood. Loss of a finger is moderately severe (less than losing a limb, blindness or death, but worse than bruising or a break), and though the likelihood is relatively low it's far form zero as it is recognised as one of the more common causes of precisely this injury.

The HSE have a surprisingly small number of good practice guides for engineering workshop practice – and they choose the subjects as being those activities that cause the most injuries in industry. Examples being grinding wheels and the use of eye protection.

I'm sure there would have been far less fuss if the injury had been genuinely unusual.

Neil

[MikeParticipant @mike89748]

This thread has, quite rightly, concentrated on the safety aspects of polishing on the lathe. Another aspect is that any sort of polishing, however done, can spread abrasive material over the bed, where it combines with oil to form something akin to a lapping compound. Before polishing, it would seem wise protect the bed with newspaper. Any comments?

[Enough!Participant @enough]

Russell, Martin &Neil

I wasn't commenting, per-se, on whether the practice is safe or unsafe.

Rather that the HSE people used the fact that the Council had used this practice for years (without an apparent problem) as evidence that the Council was at fault for not detecting the problem.

Just seems pretty illogical to me …. or actually that they were trying to twist (not very successfully) the facts to fit a pre-determined conclusion.

[Roger HartParticipant @rogerhart88496]

Teaching kids lathework sounds a job for the very brave. So how many times had this workshop had the inspectors run the rule over it – and did any of the inspectors have a clue what they were looking at? I hope they leave the teacher alone and carry on teaching lathework. Lesson learned, pay up and look big – there are very few problems a lawyer cannot make worse.

[S.D.L.Participant @s-d-l]

Posted by Bandersnatch on 06/08/2015 23:12:04:

Russell, Martin &Neil

I wasn't commenting, per-se, on whether the practice is safe or unsafe.

Rather that the HSE people used the fact that the Council had used this practice for years (without an apparent problem) as evidence that the Council was at fault for not detecting the problem.

Just seems pretty illogical to me …. or actually that they were trying to twist (not very successfully) the facts to fit a pre-determined conclusion.

Seems fairley obvious to me that the LEA assuming it's a LEA school haven't reviewed the H&S guidance on machines or they would have stopped using strips of emery years ago. Conclusion of HSE looks spot on. They have all the numbers to know the most dangerous activities based on hard evidence and give guidance on that. Talk to a real H&S expert and it's common sense, normally the issue is some jobs worth who uses H&S to get their way or who see danger in getting out of bed.

Steve

[Ian S CParticipant @iansc]

In the same time I imagine a number of kids going to that school have had accidents on the way to and from school that have been at least as serious, my sister started school, learning to write with her left hand, she broke her right arm swinging on the school fence, and falling off.

Ian S C

[Chris DentonParticipant @chrisdenton53037]

I had less than five minutes instruction before being left on a 2hp Harrison lathe which I used for the next hour. The teacher would be supervising two rooms on each side of a corridor…

McDonalds wouldn't let me order at the drive through on my push bike yesterday due to 'Health & Safety', no-one seemed to know what the risk was though. As I was already in the drive through it seemed a bit pointless to tell me I couldn't order and there's no sign to say no bikes are allowed?

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

Posted by Chris Denton on 01/09/2015 03:23:21:

I had less than five minutes instruction before being left on a 2hp Harrison lathe which I used for the next hour. The teacher would be supervising two rooms on each side of a corridor…

McDonalds wouldn't let me order at the drive through on my push bike yesterday due to 'Health & Safety', no-one seemed to know what the risk was though. As I was already in the drive through it seemed a bit pointless to tell me I couldn't order and there's no sign to say no bikes are allowed?

Sounds like one for the HSE Mythbusters.

Neil

[robjon44Participant @robjon44]

Hi all, was just looking through this thread and had a moment of deja view, 50 odd years I was attending an evening class as part of my day release during my apprenticeship, in an metalwork classroom (remember them?) at a local secondary school, imagine our joy to receive a visit from both the Principal and the Vice Principal of the technical college overseeing our training. Eventually he arrived where I was tending a lathe, having by now done it for living for around 3 years and said "now you realise that you should never wear a tie in a workshop?" I looked around the room in an exaggerated manner and replied "yes sir, and do you realise that of the 30 people in this place you are the only one wearing one? So to get back on track, safe practice was dinned into us morning noon and night in the workplace, often reinforced with a clip round the ear, and where the shed dwelling brotherhood is concerned it is never too often to draw unsafe practice to our attention. Bob H

[Peter G. ShawParticipant @peterg-shaw75338]

I have always allowed my grandchildren to use my tools – all of them – with the instruction "I don't care what damage you do to the equipment as long as you don't damage yourself". My argument being that even if they broke something, it showed that they had tried, and in all probability learned something when there are a lot of people who won't even have tried. Then, when my daughter went to a Parents evening at the elder grandson's school, the first sentence from the craftwork teacher was "I understand Jamie's grandad has a lathe". Ultimately, it transpired that Jamie was one of the few children the teacher trusted on the school equipment.

Since then, Jamie's life has taken a different path, but his younger brother, Jack, has taken up an engineering apprenticeship and within a few weeks showed that he already knew more than I did about welding. Recently, he came to our house, and despite not being shown by me how to use my lathe, set about using it as if he had been born to it.

Both grandsons showed me up by putting on safety glasses.

Regards,

Peter G. Shaw

[Ady1Participant @ady1]

Both grandsons showed me up by putting on safety glasses.

That's a habit I got out of after a couple of years, I found that standing well back towards the tailstock end was far more convenient.

Those wartime pictures with an operators nose two inches from the workpiece and no safety glasses make me cringe

I've got a good set of glasses now and wear them most of the time

On the shaper I always wear glasses, it's too random compared to a lathe and glasses are essential

[Martin KyteParticipant @martinkyte99762]

That's the ticket Peter, good attitude.

Re wartime pictures, maybe they thought getting flattened by the Luftwaffe more pressing than workplace safety. That or posing for the photographer.

Martin

[John McNamaraParticipant @johnmcnamara74883]

Hi All

Apart from the regulatory and legal liability issues what practices should we adopt to perform polishing in the lathe safely?

To make a start.

Polishing in the lathe

When polishing with abrasive strip I use the following procedure. (this material often has a very strong cloth or Mylar back)

Cut a small piece of cloth as short as possible, but no so short that using it will expose the hands to the fast rotating chuck.

when applying the strip to the work the last 25mm of each end the strip only shall only be grasped between the thumb and forefinger of each hand.
It shall never ever be wrapped around a finger or the hand. (There will be no exceptions to this rule)

Using this method if the abrasive catches it will be pulled away from the opposed finger and thumb, instead if dragging the limb in with terrible consequences.

Filing in the lathe

I must admit I don't like doing it particularly near the chuck. I do not regard it as a safe practice.
The text books say the file must have a handle, absolutely true, or you risk the file tang being driven into your palm or wrist.

But what happens if the file does inadvertently catch the chuck or the work? with a file you have a firm grip with your hands wrapped around the tool. in an instant the tool is projected towards you.

Yes I do it sometimes but I don't have to like doing it particularly near the chuck.

Regards
John

[KWILParticipant @kwil]

If you do feel the need to polish on a lathe, paper over the slideways and only use a collet as they do not have teeth (aka chuck jaws)

[MuzzerParticipant @muzzer]

Run the lathe in reverse so if the file catches, it doesn't get thrown towards you. Obviously you have to hold the end of the file, not the handle so that the teeth still cut!

The tools in the tool holder may present as much of a risk as the file and chuck. It makes sense to move / remove these and any other sharp features where possible.

[JonParticipant @jon]

Muzzer it don't cut unless reach over the tailstock unsupported and file right to left.
Key is support yourself leaning on head stock and try and angle the tip slightly away.

Paper over the bed, well its a tool and tools are dispensable plus the coolant will render redundant in seconds.

Regularly use long abrasives to sand down long items but as in the HSE hold both ends in a U shape going under the item, continual coolant helps and washes away debris. Some items need grabbing or getting a feel for any imperfections felt through the cloth backed abrasives, worst you will get is a slap on a finger or hand and let go.

99% of what I do is impossible to do by any other method.

I am surprised lathes are still being used in schools, thought the last ones round here 50 mile radius were sold of by 1995.
HSE in respect of this particular incident have to appear to be doing something so ban polishing. Its also a view insurance companies follow, soon as mention rotating stuff they get enquisitive, soon as mention lathe greeted with instant no we don't insure that.

Heres HSE recommended method and logic. **LINK** Look at the nutcracker (C)what 'will' happen! Your grabbing the nutcracker and also stopping it rotating, sooner or later it will grab you let go but you will also lunge towards the machine.
Notice left arm on head stock for filing, you have support.

[John BromleyParticipant @johnbromley78794]

I prefer filling left handed, so not reaching over the spindle/chuck.

If I'm filing in the lathe I always move the saddle along to give more room and remove tooling from the toolpost.

I've snagged the back of my hand on tooling while setting up before, wouldn't fancy being court by a sharp tool whilst filling.

Polishing follows the same procedure as filing by wraping a piece of wet 'n' dry round a file.

As for safety glasses, I put them on as soon as I go out into the workshop, even if I don't intend on using the lathe. Like most people I sometimes get carried away and suddenly end up doing something else which may present a hazard to my eyes.

John

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

> Notice left arm on head stock for filing, you have support.

Note also the guard over chuck.

Neil

[OuBallieParticipant @ouballie]

Posted by Bandersnatch on 05/08/2015 21:53:28:

The usual hysteria aside, am I the only one who thinks the statement:

……… the Council had failed to identify that the practice of hand-polishing on metal lathes was unsafe despite it being used for years at the 1,700-pupil school.

would logically suggest that the practice is, in fact, generally safe?

Beaurocrats ignoring our industrial history as usual!

Geoff – Only now fully recovered from Monday's 0200h on then off, episode

[Tony Pratt 1Participant @tonypratt1]

Posted by OuBallie on 06/09/2015 10:18:59:

Posted by Bandersnatch on 05/08/2015 21:53:28:

The usual hysteria aside, am I the only one who thinks the statement:

……… the Council had failed to identify that the practice of hand-polishing on metal lathes was unsafe despite it being used for years at the 1,700-pupil school.

would logically suggest that the practice is, in fact, generally safe?

Beaurocrats ignoring our industrial history as usual!

Geoff – Only now fully recovered from Monday's 0200h on then off, episode

I suppose any practice where hot or sharp hard objects can come into contact with our soft fleshy bits could be considered 'unsafe', the trick is to avoid this happening.

Tony

[robjon44Participant @robjon44]

Hi all, another four pennorth on workshop safety, the most unusual incident that ever happened to me, one evening I drew the conclusion that there was just time to pull in a little job before my dinner hit the table, don safety glasses, assemble kit required, an adaptor plate, 4 cap screws & a three sixteenths hex key, apply plate to spindle flange align holes, fit first screw leaving hex key in screw, reach for next screw key falls 4 inches onto lathe bed returning at something approaching the speed of light long end first & hits me above safety glasses exactly at the mid point between my eyebrows resulting in a perfect hexagonal dent oozing blood, I was astounded but not enough to stop the tidal wave of industrial language it unleashed. For a less unusual method of having an accident I recommend the tried & tested attempting to remove a birds nest of swarf rotating with the job using a swarf rake, spectacular results can always be guaranteed, don't do it

robjon44

[LambtonParticipant @lambton]

**LINK**

The HSE has just issued some up dated advice on the use of emery cloth on lathes – see the link above.

[pgk pgkParticipant @pgkpgk17461]

..so to use method 2 I have to put on long sleeved overalls?

[phil burleyParticipant @philburley12227]

be very carful , I was polishihg a shaft with emery tape while wearing rubber gloves , Got caught up and took my hand round the shaft , A broken finger before I could stop the lathe . Don't think it can't happen to you

Phil

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