Plastic Ban

[I.M. OUTAHEREParticipant @i-m-outahere]

Plastic bags are on the way out here in OZ , some cheecky retailers were charging a few cents per bag but im not sure if they do now .

Our major hardware chain Bunnings don't have plastic bags but will give you a cardboard box to carry your purchase in , at least it gets used twice and then hopefully recycled .

I heard somewhere that the trash that we have allowed into the sea is showing up in antarctica ! The worst things i see are plastic bags as turtles think they are jellyfish and eat them then die and the platic they use to hold a six pack of beer cans together as i have seen one of these caught around a dolphins nose preventing it from opening its mouth and it starved to death . Why can't they use cardboard like some soft drink manufacturers do for their cans ?

I remeber when i was a kid soft drinks and milk were delivered to your door in glass bottles in a wooden crate and the empty ones were placed back in the crate for pick up by the delivery driver , if you want to watch an interesting documentary about our throw away society and the effects of it on some third world countries have a look at the burner boys ,

I don't think we have reduced polution i think we have switched from one type of pollution to another , we have reduced the production of greenhouse gasses but increased the solid waste pollution in the form of non bio degradable plastic – throw away nappies have possibly become the worst polluting item on earth !

We now have a 10 cent container tax on each can or bottle that can be redeemed at some mythical recycling station – i have only ever seen one of these so far , this has created some tax revenue for the government and a new industry – bin scavengers ! Some houholds have had the contents of their recycle bin strewn all over their yard by bin scabs looking for cans and bottles to feed into the above mentioned recycling station .

P.s. If they totally banned all plastics what would i do with my 3D printer ??? Might have a hell of a time getting recycled paper to extrude though it 😄

 

Edited By XD 351 on 19/04/2018 19:18:45

[David Standing 1Participant @davidstanding1]

There is no doubt that plastic waste in the oceans is a critical problem, there must be millions of tons of it out there.

Nobody has offered any sort of explanation that I have heard as to how it is getting there in the first place, and it would have to be dumping on an epic scale to end up with the problem we currently have.

Yes, by all means introduce measures to cut down on plastic waste, but surely the first line of action to deal with the amount of plastic waste in the oceans is to prevent it finding its way there in the first place? .

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

This is interesting:

http://www.snopes.com/fact-check/sperm-whale-die-swallowing-64-pounds-plastic-debris/

Apparently a sperm whale DID die of peritonitis after swallowing 64 kg of rubbish, but the photo usually used to illustrate the story was a greenpeace art installation! (eagle eye-whale watchers will note the art whale wasn't even a sperm whale!)

There's also this classic poster by Klaus Emflo for the Catalonian government, several years ago:

[JourneymanParticipant @journeyman]

This link to a BBC News item gives some idea where it is all coming from.

John

Edited By Journeyman on 19/04/2018 20:04:55

[SamsarandaParticipant @samsaranda]

A way forward is obviously to drastically reduce the amount of plastic wrapping that supermarkets use, cheese doesn’t have to pre wrapped in plastic nor does bacon. I remember as a youngster cheese was cut from the whole cheese in the grocers on the counter using a cheese wire, bacon was cut from pieces of the side loaded on the bacon slicer and cold meat cut from the whole gammon, then your purchases were wrapped in grease proof paper and placed in a paper bag. Whilst still at school during the summer holidays I worked in a local grocers and my job was to bone out the sides of bacon when they were delivered to the shop, can’t see that being allowed nowadays, youngsters using incredibly sharp knives. I know that concern has been raised about food hygiene and possible food contamination and poisoning but I wasn’t aware that it was an issue in those days. The downside of changing back to how things were is that it would be labour intensive and this goes against commmercial principles which aim to use as few personnel as possible as they are the most expensive part of any process. So as far as the bean counters are concerned plastic pre packaging with its attendant pollution will always win as its cheaper than employing trained assistants to serve the customer.

Dave W

[Bill Davies 2Participant @billdavies2]

XD351 – 10c tax, redeemable. When I was a lad in the Sixties, we would round up soft drink bottles for the cash back, as a supplement to our pocket money. I think any off-licence would pay you in exchange for the empty. Some older lads at my school found a better way, they nicked R Whites lemonade bottles from the nearby distribution centre, drank them and got paid for it.

Bill

[GeorgineerParticipant @georgineer]

Posted by Michael Gilligan on 19/04/2018 12:22:38:

According to BBC News:

Announcing a consultation on a possible ban ministers said 8.5bn plastic straws were thrown away in the UK every year.

Assuming the population is about 70 million, that's three straws per day for every man,woman and child. And somebody must be using six per day, because I haven't used a straw in years.

George

[Sam Longley 1Participant @samlongley1]

Posted by Georgineer on 19/04/2018 20:27:04:

Posted by Michael Gilligan on 19/04/2018 12:22:38:

According to BBC News:

Announcing a consultation on a possible ban ministers said 8.5bn plastic straws were thrown away in the UK every year.

Assuming the population is about 70 million, that's three straws per day for every man,woman and child. And somebody must be using six per day, because I haven't used a straw in years.

George

Just seen a newsreel article about plastic & waste clogging the rivers in Indonesia- & we are worrying about a few p..xy straws !!!!!

[Sam Longley 1Participant @samlongley1]

Posted by Samsaranda on 19/04/2018 20:13:51:

A way forward is obviously to drastically reduce the amount of plastic wrapping that supermarkets use, cheese doesn’t have to pre wrapped in plastic nor does bacon. I remember as a youngster cheese was cut from the whole cheese in the grocers on the counter using a cheese wire, bacon was cut from pieces of the side loaded on the bacon slicer and cold meat cut from the whole gammon, then your purchases were wrapped in grease proof paper and placed in a paper bag.

Perhaps if one had been prepared to walk down the high street to shop instead of just charging into the supermarket grab what one wanted & get out, then one would have had the shops that supplied the items in the way that you suggest.

It is easy to decry the loss of such things, but there is a reason behind it & really it is us the consumer that is to blame. The supermarkets have only reacted to demand. If there had been no demand there would have been no supply.

[Mike PooleParticipant @mikepoole82104]

My step grandmother had a meat safe outside her kitchen which had a pierced zinc screen to allow ventilation and keep bugs out. As she had a refrigerator it was redundant but still a curiosity for a 10 year old. I doubt that anything kept in it had ever seen a plastic bag.

Mike

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

Posted by Sam Longley 1 on 19/04/2018 20:33:06:

Just seen a newsreel article about plastic & waste clogging the rivers in Indonesia- & we are worrying about a few p..xy straws !!!!!

The most microplastic-contaminated river in the world is… the River Denton in Manchester.

I was looking at a stretch of the River Tame today. It was at about one tyre every two metres… we need to clean up our own rivers!

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

Posted by Samsaranda on 19/04/2018 20:13:51:

A way forward is obviously to drastically reduce the amount of plastic wrapping that supermarkets use, cheese doesn’t have to pre wrapped in plastic nor does bacon. I remember as a youngster cheese was cut from the whole cheese in the grocers on the counter using a cheese wire, bacon was cut from pieces of the side loaded on the bacon slicer and cold meat cut from the whole gammon,

May supermarkets still do this, but apparently the youngsters of today want their meat in 'no touch' packaging…

Neil

[Mick B1Participant @mickb1]

Posted by Neil Wyatt on 19/04/2018 22:24:43:

Posted by Samsaranda on 19/04/2018 20:13:51:

A way forward is obviously to drastically reduce the amount of plastic wrapping that supermarkets use, cheese doesn’t have to pre wrapped in plastic nor does bacon. I remember as a youngster cheese was cut from the whole cheese in the grocers on the counter using a cheese wire, bacon was cut from pieces of the side loaded on the bacon slicer and cold meat cut from the whole gammon,

May supermarkets still do this, but apparently the youngsters of today want their meat in 'no touch' packaging…

Neil

Yes, but they still pack the foods they cut between sheets of plastic, and put it in a plastic or plasticised paper bag. If anything it's less ecologically friendly than a recyclable plastic tray, and it takes many times as long to get it into the trolley as picking one o' them off a display. And it doesn't keep anywhere near as long, either.

The fact is that economic conditions and expectations are such that in most relationships both adult partners are required to work, and insufficient time is left in any sensible work/life balance to shop in such a leisurely manner – especially if any of them has a time- and concentration-consuming hobby as model engineering.

'Tain't nuffin' to do with any precious 'no-touch' neuroses.

[Enough!Participant @enough]

Posted by Georgineer on 19/04/2018 20:27:04:

Posted by Michael Gilligan on 19/04/2018 12:22:38:

According to BBC News:

Announcing a consultation on a possible ban ministers said 8.5bn plastic straws were thrown away in the UK every year.

Assuming the population is about 70 million, that's three straws per day for every man,woman and child. And somebody must be using six per day, because I haven't used a straw in years.

Depends on who's billion they're using.

[Danny M2ZParticipant @dannym2z]

Maybe this recent discovery could help us all **LINK**

* Danny M *

[Raymond Sanderson 2Participant @raymondsanderson2]

Posted by Neil Wyatt on 19/04/2018 09:04:59:

That's the last straw…

More seriously, this really feels like a moral panic 'plastic is killing the planet, let's ban toothpicks…'

It would make more sense to stop supermarkets from profiteering by phasing out thin bags in favour of expensive 'bags for life' that are rarely used long enough to actually have less impact than a 'disposable' bag.

Neil time to pt your thinking cap on regarding ME & MEW's use of plastic bag covers.

Maybe ME & MEW should be posted in one package? Of course this will have to be some material which keep the mags dry and safe.

Or better still, let's see more ingenuity in food (or all) packaging.

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

Posted by Raymond Sanderson 2 on 20/04/2018 05:40:32:

Maybe ME & MEW should be posted in one package? Of course this will have to be some material which keep the mags dry and safe.

Then I will get more emails from Ray complaining that both his magazines have gone astray or got soggy, or about the extra delay while ME waits for MEW to be printed

Neil

[MikeParticipant @mike89748]

I have postal subscriptions to three magazines, and all of them come wrapped in plastic. Why not use A4 brown paper envelopes?

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

In the good old days Neil (aged 7) delivered MEW to gentleman subscribers by hand. How well I remember him in his smart uniform struggling up the hill to Dufferton Abbey in a blizzard with the magazine balanced on the handlebars of his immaculate Penny Farthing.

The magazine was properly packaged in a walnut tea-chest full of excelsior, the whole carefully wrapped by virgins in a tarpaulin, postage 1d.

Shockingly bad service – I had to set the dogs on him because the lazy young oik brought the magazine to the front-door instead of the servant's entrance.

I much prefer reading paper to online versions, but Digital might be an alternative to an erratic postal service. Unless you hate computers or suffer from koumpounophobia.

[JourneymanParticipant @journeyman]

Posted by SillyOldDuffer on 20/04/2018 09:57:09:

I much prefer reading paper to online versions, but Digital might be an alternative to an erratic postal service. Unless you hate computers or suffer from koumpounophobia.

I read my digital subscription on a tablet which prevents phobic problems

John

[BazyleParticipant @bazyle]

The plastic wraps can be carefully opened by cutting one end to yield a useful small plastic bag now the supply from shopping is dwindling. BTW I hope they are food safe.

[HopperParticipant @hopper]

Posted by Mike on 20/04/2018 09:12:23:

I have postal subscriptions to three magazines, and all of them come wrapped in plastic. Why not use A4 brown paper envelopes?

The trees! The trees! Where will the drop bears live if the corporate raiders cut all the trees down to make wrappers for MEW?

[HopperParticipant @hopper]

Posted by SillyOldDuffer on 20/04/2018 09:57:09:

In the good old days Neil (aged 7) delivered MEW to gentleman subscribers by hand. How well I remember him in his smart uniform struggling up the hill to Dufferton Abbey in a blizzard with the magazine balanced on the handlebars of his immaculate Penny Farthing.

I always wondered who that boy was. Must say his uniform used to look a bit bedraggled by the time he got to World's End cattle station in central Orstralia. Of course, keeping clean on the 105-mile dirt driveway up to the house can't have been easy for someone so young and carefree. I doubt that he travelled with his own batman in those unenlightened days.

[John CoatesParticipant @johncoates48577]

Posted by Stuart Bridger on 19/04/2018 13:56:13:

Our local council used to recycle "flyaway" plastics, e.g. Plastic bags, food wrapping etc. Last year the contract changed presumably to provide "better value", but the new contractor won't take this type of plastic so goes it goes in the general waste.

Plant operators have pushed back on councils regarding the range of plastics they will allow due to the fall in value of paper and plastic on world markets. Previous high values subsidised receiving and dealing with the low value or cost items. The fall in values has ended this practice so these are now classed as contaminants or waste and we get charged for them hence why a council in this situation prefers to have it in the general waste so it is collected and paid for as that rather than being separated out and charged for as general.

[MWParticipant @mw27036]

I often get the feeling that the face of these solutions to moral panic often changes,

but the problem still remains, you can't magic things away and everything has to go somewhere. Simply banning it isn't going to clean up everything that's been dumped.

Michael W

[Author]

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