New or Second Hand Lathe?

[Roger JennerParticipant @rogerjenner32336]

I know the “merits” of Chinese lathes from the likes of Chester and Warco have been discussed along with some of the problems that can occur. But as a total beginner to Model Engineering I have a simple question in that would I be better of buying a second hand lathe (like a Myford ML7) or going for a new one? The Myfords seem to sell for around £700 plus so they are not necessarily a cheaper option and I would have no way of verifying that a second-hand lathe was in acceptable condition.

 

Thanks in advance.

[Roger JennerParticipant @rogerjenner32336]

[Nicholas FarrParticipant @nicholasfarr14254]

Hi Rodger, not an easy question to answer to anyone, as it is something you have to decide for yourself in the end. However it could be a bit like buying a secound had car, that is unless you have some real idea of what to look for, you can easly get a bad deal. If you don’t really no what you are looking for, or don’t know anyone you can trust to give you good advice when buying a choosen second hand lathe, then you may be better off buying a new lathe from the one of the many suppliers that sell to the Model Engineering fraternity. If you would prefer a secound hand Myford or similer, I would suggest going to a reputable secound hand machine dealer who will give you some sort of warranty and support, although the price may be a bit higher that your £700.00 figure.

 

Regards Nick.

Edited By Nicholas Farr on 20/02/2011 15:15:05

[Michael WildeParticipant @michaelwilde12011]

I faced this issue a couple of years ago. I ended up buying a Chester db10gvs brand new. This lathe was big enough, 10″ diameter swing, to cope with the majority of jobs you might want to do. The problem I found was, there wasn’t much to it! it looked impressive and shiny but on inspection it was very thin in areas that need to be as chunky as possible (the bed!) also, it came with everything you need, 3 and 4 jaw chucks and both fixed and travelling steadies. I found the steadies to be quite poor quality and the method of fixing/changing the chucks means a 10 minute fiddly spannering job. It was good that it had variable speed controlled by a knob rather than changing belts and the motor was powerful enough to cope with heavy cuts (but the bed/spindle wasn’t). All in all, for a brand new lathe, and for the price it was pretty good. I ended up selling it and buying a Myford, which I love. I’m a machinist by trade and these little lathes are right up there with functionality for size. Agreed the quality comes at a price but I think its worth it. You just have to save up longer for accessories!

[Peter G. ShawParticipant @peterg-shaw75338]

When I first got involved with the hobby. I bought a s/h Hobbymat. Shortly afterwards, I discovered it was turning convex – a big no-no. Removal of the front label revealed a large casting flaw which had been there since manufacture according to the paint inside it. That lathe as exchanged by the importer for a new one.

Eventually, I wanted a larger lathe, and by this time I knew enough to know that I didn’t know enough to be able to safely s/h again. I spoke to Myford who do sometimes have refurbished machines, only they were not interested in a p/x for a refurbished lathe, so I ended up spending in the order of £1500 in total on a new import which I still have. Frankly, it isn’t the best of lathes.

Even now, after 20 or so years, I still don’t know enough to be able to be certain of getting a good s/h lathe, so, my suggestion would be, especially if you don’t have a p/x, to contact Myford and see what they can do for you.

Good luck,

Peter G. Shaw

 

[Gordon AParticipant @gordona]

Greetings Roger,

 

If you are tempted by a used Myford, have a look at this, it may help.

 

http://www.myford.com/pdf_files/Inspection-Guide-01.pdf

 

Regards,

 

Gordon.

 

 

[NJHParticipant @njh]

Roger

Maybe the question you should ask yourself first is “What do I want to make with this lathe?” This will determine the size. Peter’s route of a relatively inexpensive machine should get you going and maybe, as you gain experience and your projects become more ambitious, you can trade up. Please remember however that the lathe itself is not the end of the costs involved with the hobby and accessories ,tools etc will add significantly to costs.

On the Myford route one advantage is that spares are available for many of their machines (but at a price!) Check out their web site – they also have refurbished machines. I started out with an ML4 then changed that after a few years for an ML10, which is a good basic machine if you can find one, and most of the accessories will fit the ML7 range if you trade up later. I now have a Super 7 which I am very happy with – but they don’t come cheap. Do try to find someone who knows about lathes to help you if you buy secondhand – maybe seek advice and assistance from your local model engineering club.

Good Luck

Norman

 

[adyParticipant @ady]

You can often see a real gem of a second hand machine going for a couple of hundred quid on fleabay.

The big problem is tooling, which can take a while to find and accumulate and can cost silly amounts of money, I’m into making as much of my own stuff as I can now as well as fixing the machine up.

 

If you buy a second hand one and you’re clueless search for one which comes with a bunch of tooling, solid (non-roller bearing) headstock bearings and a leadscrew nut which is in decent nick and avoid the ones where the owner only sells the lathe.

The buy new or second hand argument usually boils down to cost, you can get a lorra lorra lathe for your money second hand if you can do the pick up.

 

My own 1944 lathe can still turn 14 inches down to 5 hundredths of a millimeter and I’m still a numpty, I had to adjust the headstock bearings at one point as well because the old girl had taken such a hammering and the headstock end of the bed is more worn than the tailstock end.

 

As a complete newby it occurred to me that I would be bonkers to spend two grand on a new lathe until I knew I was going to do this hobby forever.

It’s dirty, dangerous and highly skilled.

The highly skilled bit takes literally years of focussed effort, meanwhile you spend years of getting filthy, coping with metal splinters in your fingers, aching legs and sleepless nights as you stand for hours working on projects.

 

If you get into it…you’ll never need another hobby.

The sense of achievement satisfaction and self esteem from what you discover you can do with a lathe can be a bit of an eye opener.

It sure beats the internet or watching crud on TV.

 

So don’t spend too much to start with because you’re currently in a chicken and egg situation with a hobby which needs a great deal of commitment.

I would also buy L.Spareys “The Amateurs Lathe” to give you a few pointers if I was you.

 

Good Luck

[John CoatesParticipant @johncoates48577]

Roger

 

Been in the same dilemma myself. In the end I bought an old (1947) Barker 5×24 lathe and stand because I was a total newbie and would be starting from scratch. This cost £350 plus a 300 mile round trip to collect it in my estate.

 

Glad I did this as the Barker has suffered in my hands during my learning – smashed tools into the rotating chuck when turning under power, broken the tailstock locking mechanism. But what I have learned both on the machine and from the people on here have more than made up for these incidents. In fact the tailstock incident will probably lead to a better designed and more functional tailstock than the one I bought it with.

 

In two year’s time I am due an endowment policy which I was going to spend on a motorcycling trip to some far flung corner of the world for my 50th (with the balance going to SWMBO for brownie points), but am now seriously contemplating buying a very tidy and well equipped Myford. My ability and knowledge will be much greatly advanced by then and I should be able to tell a good ‘n from a bad ‘un if I buy secondhand. There is always the official Myford refurbished scheme to consider as well.

 

I never contemplated a small lathe (Unimat) because I want to make and work on parts for motorcycles, not models, hence why a 5″ lathe was my choice. I’m very happy with my poor suffering Barker and it will have a fond place in my heart forever more, whatever I decide to do lathe-wise in the future.

 

So my vote is for S/H to match the amount of money you have to spend / are prepared to risk

 

John

[michael coleParticipant @michaelcole91146]

I have had new inports and second hand british. If you go down the second hand route , then there are many more makes than the over priced Myford. Consider the Boxfords belt and gear heads. Raglans and too many to list and cheaper than a smaller myford.

 

Mike

[mgjParticipant @mgj]

I certainly agree about the Boxfords. Bigger is an awful lot easier to wrk with. More space to clear the tailstock etc, and at 5″ with the right tooling you can still make some pretty small and intricate stuff if you want

 

(But you do have to decide what you want ot make, since horses do unfortunately fit courses, and that is especially true if you want to make traction engines)

 

If I were starting again, for general purpose modelling, I would get one of the Craftsmen lathes. I have seen a couple of Warcos examples and they are pretty handy at a sane price. They can be set up VERY accurately, and like all of these things, we are unlikley to wear one out in a modelling lifetime. (Production being different of course)

 

The real problem with the Myford, and it is a lovely lathe (I have a Super 7), but its limited. For example, you can build a Sweet Pea on it, but there is quite a lot of fiddling to do so. Same castings on a Craftsman or equivalent and its an easy job.

 

New or second hand? New, you know whats been done to it, unless it has been properly reconditioned for my money.

 

Only real caveat. If this lathe is to be your ONLY machine tool for a while, then it MUST have a tee slotted cross slide, because that way it will double as a mill. If you have a mill, then that doesn’t matter.

 

 

 

[Chris TriceParticipant @christrice43267]

Myfords are popular (and for good reason) and therefore hold their value but there are other equally good quality lathes to be had second hand which don’t get so much press and therefore somewhat cheaper such as Boxfords.

Edited By Chris Trice on 21/02/2011 19:02:36

[Chris GunnParticipant @chrisgunn36534]

My vote would be for a Colchester Bantam, but be prepared for a 3 phase machine, do not be put off by this as there are several solutions, the ease of use outweighs this. If you want a 1 phase machine I would go for a Boxford which are plentiful and easily available in 1 phase. Harrison next, and then Myford would be next in my list, and oriental ones last of all.

Chris Gunn

[Roger JennerParticipant @rogerjenner32336]

Thank you all for your comments, they were most useful.

 

The “trouble” with the alternative to the Myford is that they seem to be very heavy machines and hence getting it to my workshop may be tricky.

 

I also don’t know as yet exactly what I will want to do with the machine. I’ve always enjoyed “using my hands” and am “into” classic bikes – so the odd non-critical part seemed a good idea. After that some of the small models – so basically something that can keep me occupied on those cold wet days!

[Ian S CParticipant @iansc]

In Chris’s list, I’d stick Boxford in the no., i spot, then Colchester Bantam, Harrison, then I would choose the lathe that I bought, but might be too big for you, its aWey YII TY-1324BH, made in Taiwan. I looked a Myford (secondhand), it cost too much, and compared to the Taiwanese lathe, rather flimsy (my thought at the time, not knowing much about lathes), I have turned 18″ D in the gap. Its bottom speed is 60rpm, which for some large stuff is a bit fast, I think my mates Myford goes down to 48rpm. If you want a british lathe of smaller size, maybe a Myford 10, if you can get one for a reasonable price, other wise a good Far Eastern lathe is the way to go, although I would not recomend a comby machine ie., lathe/ mill. Ian S C

[TerrydParticipant @terryd72465]

Hi Roger,

 

The Boxford is not too bad, It breaks down into smaller sub units which can be handled by a reasonably fit person, preferably two. You can usually pick one up with a good range of tooling and equipment for a fraction of the cost of a mediocre Myford.

 

School Boxfords are generally good as they probably had little use after originally being installed as it was only the more senior students who used them and then only infrequently. Most were well maintained by technicians and they will not have had any significant use since curriculum changes in the mid 1980s development of the ‘National Curriculum’ when most were then mothballed.

 

They may look a little bruised where accidents have occurred but they will have suffered little wear. Much the same goes for the other lathes used in schools such as the Raglan, Colchesters (student and Bantam usually) and Harrisons up to the M300. They are getting more difficult to get hold of now but they generally represent guud buys.

 

Best regards and enjoy whatever you decide,

 

Terry.

 

[Ian S CParticipant @iansc]

Anoher machine to look for among ex school workshops is a shaper, these got even less use than the lathe, at my local High school in latter years got no use as the teacher did not know how it worked. So if you get a chance of ex School stuff you might just about get two machines for not much more than one, well you’v already bought the blooming thing with your taxes. Ian S C

[mgjParticipant @mgj]

Problem with a lot of hte ex industial stuff is that they tend to be larger and heavier, which is good or bad depending on circumstances- mostly good though. But they are liley to be 3 phase, which means extra cost for relativley little increase in capabiltiy. Some will be single phase, and some people have 3 phase – but mostly they aren’t and they don’t)

 

Again, starting out, first lathe, a lot of the tooling we have acquired or made and take for granted as being “part” of the lathe isn’t and has to be bought. Depending on hte deal.

So if I have to choose – being a beginner, and the OP is a total beginner – I NEED a lathe with a tee slotted x slide (because I don’t have a mill). I need a vertical slide. I NEED a 4 jaw and I’d like a 3 jaw, I need drill chucks on MTs I NEED tooling and a grinding wheel (or tips). I need steadies and some means of simple dividing. I don’t need an inverter etc.

 

So one can find that ones choice is limited by practicalies. If i won the lottery I’d go to Buck and Hickman and order a new Harrison, and a Bridgeport too, plus tooling, my 3 jaw would be a Pratt super precision 3 jaw at £400 or so etc.

[Dave Cooper 6Participant @davecooper6]

Hi Roger – I'm a beginner too, although I have machined on a Colchester Student and attended metal work evening classes where I made a centre punch and a small vise ! (Sadly, these classes are no longer available – education cuts ?). I've also done some forging and milling /shaping plus a little bit of 'hobby' casting….(low temp&#39

My check list for a small lathe:

– not enough room for a free-standing one, so it'll have to be a bench top model.

– want to make a model aero engine and some small parts (bushes etc) for a Le Mans style sportscar I'm building.

– need enough rigidity to machine cast iron and high-carbon steel without taking a zillion light cuts.

– ideally, could be upgraded to CNC at a later stage, if necessary.

So, the lathe has to be 'capable' but not fantastic ! We have a fully-equipped machine shop in the next village which can do anything I can't.

The search is on !!!

Dave

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

Posted by Roger Jenner on 20/02/2011 14:27:22:

…

I would have no way of verifying that a second-hand lathe was in acceptable condition.

 

…

That's why I bought a new Chinese Lathe!

The problem with buying second-hand is it's all about condition. If you buy second-hand from a private seller and the machine turns out to be badly worn, damaged, or is missing costly parts, it's YOUR problem. The advantage of buying new Far Eastern from a UK vendor is consumer protection. It takes most of the risk out of the purchase. Also you don't have to sort out transporting an awkward heavy weight.

Now I've had a few year's experience with far eastern kit, I'd be far more confident buying second-hand if I wanted to. Actually my Chinese machines are fine for what I do and I've not felt any need to look at anything else, even though there are nice ex-industry and educational machines to be had.

The main thing I regret about buying a lathe is not doing it sooner!

Good luck,

Dave

[ChrisBParticipant @chrisb35596]

7 years later…..I hope Roger managed to find his lathe

[David Standing 1Participant @davidstanding1]

Posted by ChrisB on 16/11/2018 21:38:29:

7 years later…..I hope Roger managed to find his lathe

We will probably never know, he stopped posting 7 years ago

[Dave HalfordParticipant @davehalford22513]

He didn't then

[VicParticipant @vic]

A necropost is a post on an "old, abandoned thread that has been considered 'dead' for a while…that no longer serves any purpose but is bumped back up to the top of the forums by someone posting in it."

[Roger JennerParticipant @rogerjenner32336]

So as you don’t all suffer in suspense – no I didn’t get a metal working lathe. I took up woodturning instead…

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