new Harrison L6 mk3

[MalcBParticipant @malcb52554]

James, congrats on your purchase.

You need to also now join the Yahoo Harrison User group.

They are currently running articles on an M300 VFD convertion so you may pick up a lots of useful tips. There may also be a few useful and applicable files for downloading as well.

Malc

[Alan Waddington 2Participant @alanwaddington2]

Posted by james huxstep on 14/01/2017 19:41:20:
So what is the guide to edit the 3 phase motor to accept the inverter tails?
What is the science behind it? I.e. why do these motors only except an inverter feed after this edit?
Star / delta 3 phase wiring? I remember doing this sort of stuff on my electrician course, but that was a while ago.

Thanks

James

They say a picture paints a thousand words……so hopefully this might help.

**LINK**

[ANDY CAWLEYParticipant @andycawley24921]

 

Sorry to muscle on in this thread but it is discussing a similar problem I have with my new (to me) Tom Senior M1 mill. This is a picture of the motor plate.

'

This is a picture of the wire terminals in side the motor.

This is the switch box on the side of the machine.

 

Oh dear I am having iPad problems, the switch box picture has jumped to the start of the thread.

 

My question is will I be able to convert this motor to delta?

Am I right in assuming this switch box won't work with an inverter?

Edited to add, my inverter has 4 wire plus an earth wire coming out of it, the motor on the mill has 3 wire coming out of it. Any advice gratefully recieved.r

Edited By ANDY CAWLEY on 14/01/2017 23:17:59

[Alan Waddington 2Participant @alanwaddington2]

My old Tom Senior motor was Star only, so I had to dig out the Star point. Yours looks like a Star/Delta motor, so you can configure it to Delta by simply moving the brass dogbone links. There might be a diagram under the terminal cover.

Not sure on your inverter wiring without more info. Probably worth downloading a manual if you don't already have one.

The inverter output should be wired direct to the motor, no switches in between

This explains it better than I can……http://www.drivesdirect.co.uk/Downloads/InvertertoMotorWiring.pdf

Edited By Alan Waddington 2 on 14/01/2017 23:58:52

[ANDY CAWLEYParticipant @andycawley24921]

Alan,thanks for that.

Converting to delta looks like a probability for my motor.

As for the manual I do have one but it might as well be written in Sanskrit as I don't really understand it. I must ring Drives Direct, they were very helpful when I bought the magic box from them.

[james huxstepParticipant @jameshuxstep40895]

Ok, so i think its actually a twin speed motor.il post a pic

[james huxstepParticipant @jameshuxstep40895]

[Graham WhartonParticipant @grahamwharton]

If you can get a photo of the terminal block aswell that will help. You are right though, that is a single voltage dual speed motor which is hard wired for star mode. That might complicate things a little further.

[james huxstepParticipant @jameshuxstep40895]

[james huxstepParticipant @jameshuxstep40895]

[james huxstepParticipant @jameshuxstep40895]

[Graham WhartonParticipant @grahamwharton]

Someone else who knows more about 2 speed motors will have to chime in here as I'm at the limit of my knowledge, but your motor will have an internal star point which is effectively the A1, B1 and C1 terminals which at the moment are not accessible to you, and is what is stopping you configuring as delta. A dual speed dual voltage motor of your type would have all 9 terminals accessible.

[james huxstepParticipant @jameshuxstep40895]

[james huxstepParticipant @jameshuxstep40895]

This is the suds pump, i think i could wire this seperate 230v?

Thanks

James

[Graham WhartonParticipant @grahamwharton]

Yeahh, thats a dual voltage suds pump so you can easily wire it for delta operation. If you pop the 3 screws the lid should come off to expose the terminals. You should see 6 terminals. It will be configured as per the bottom right diagram below with links running across the top 3 terminals. The links need changing to represent the bottom left diagram, hopefully there is a spare link in there as you need 3 links for delta and only 2 for star. L1, L2 and L3 are the three phase inputs coming from your inverter.

You will need to do some more work if you want to run it from single phase 220V instead of inverter 3 phase 220V, which will either be to dury rig some capacitors up to bodge up the remaining phases, or run from an inverter.

For your information, I run both my main lathe motor (star point dug out and converterted to delta) and my suds pump motor (configured for delta) from a single inverter without any issues. The only thing I don't do is turn on/off the suds pump motor while the lathe/inverter is running. i.e I turn the suds pump switch on before I start the lathe/inverter and switch the suds pump switch off after ive stopped the lathe/inverter.

Graham

[ANDY CAWLEYParticipant @andycawley24921]

Well, I followed the advice and rang the Drives Direct technical help line. What wonderfully helpful chap I spoke to, I can't praise them highly enough.

It turned out that I had bought from them, all those years ago, a Digital Phase Converter, which, now I think about it I do remember and it wasn't cheap. This device rather than an inverter has what is in effect a"plug and play" capability.

I remember now I bought a Converter rather than an inverter because I didn't want to have to buy a separate gadget to match each individual 3 phase machine that I might buy in the future. Not a cheap route but now I understand a bit more a very good decision.

I now have a 400 volt 3 phase plug socket on the wall that I can plug any machine upto 5 HPC into.

There is no need to mess about converting to Delta, the stop start button and the remote panic button on my mill work, my lathe has 3 speed 3 hp 3pase motor on it which does not give any problems. Following my conversations today I can now, at the press of a button, reverse the motors.

To say I understand it would be something of an exaggeration but I now know better how to make it work thanks to the technical assistance from Drives direct. I have no connection with them other than as a very satisfied customer

Not a cheap piece of kit on the first purchase but it will run any machine individually which is what most of us shed engineers do any way, just plug and play😀.

[Graham WhartonParticipant @grahamwharton]

Andy,

Yeah, If you're pockets are deep enough, then a rotary phase converter that can output true 3 phase 415/440VAC from a single phase 220/240VAC input is the best solution all round.

Graham

[james huxstepParticipant @jameshuxstep40895]

[james huxstepParticipant @jameshuxstep40895]

This is sud wiring, the red green blue and white are the input, on the left..

So where do i look up these rotary converters?

Thanks

James

[james huxstepParticipant @jameshuxstep40895]

I take it doing it the rotary way, you dont need to do anything, cause it just tricks the lathe into being fed 3 phase?

I suppose the 2 speed is still just controlled from the fron panel?

Thanks

James

[james huxstepParticipant @jameshuxstep40895]

So is it a case of just calling drives direct tomoz?

James

[ANDY CAWLEYParticipant @andycawley24921]

James, it depends on your budget. I was shocked at the current price of one of these Digital Convertors. I remember thinking very hard when I bought mine a few years ago, it was about three or four times the cost of the cheaper inverters at the time and in the end I plumped for the expensive route. I think the cost is in the same ball park today.

Have a look at the website and their ebay shop.

You pays yer money…………………………………………………………………!

[Graham WhartonParticipant @grahamwharton]

OK, I'm not sure what the heck that wiring is inside the suds pump. Is there a wiring diagram stuck to the back of the lid that shows you how to rewire it to 220 Delta?

Transwave or Drives direct are two places that can provide you the inverters/converters.

Give drives direct a call and see what they recommend.

You could get a 5hp (ish) rotary phase converter that takes a single phase 240V input and generates 3 phase 415VAC. These are noisy (they have an idler motor that runs continuously inside the converter to generate the power) and expensive (somewhere between 500 and 1000 notes). These will power any number of 3 phase devices you have simultaneously and you wouldnt need to modify any of your motors or lathe wiring. Just leave them as 415VAC star. This is the closest equivalent of having a three phase supply installed from your electricity supplier.

You could also get digital inverters that generate 415VAC three phase which would mean that you dont need to alter your motors, but these are equally as expensive, a 3hp version costing well over 500 notes and still require direct connection to the lathe motor and bypassing the lathe controls.

I am in no way an expert in this area, best to call drives direct me thinks. They will know all of the options.

Graham

[james huxstepParticipant @jameshuxstep40895]

Ive found a transwave static converter 3hp, would that do tje job?

[Graham WhartonParticipant @grahamwharton]

Yes, by the looks of it the transwave static converters would do what you need to do (as would the rotary converters). They even support operating multiple motors at the same time, providing you start the largest motor first, then start the smaller motor second.

Static converters also require you to "tune" the output depending on load. The transwave units have a multi position switch on the unit that you can switch in and out additional capacitance to balance out the 3 phases. I have no experience on how much of a pain it is to do.

Both static and rotary phase converters would allow you to just stick a standard three phase plug on the end of the lathe power lead and plug into the transwave box without modifying anything inside the lathe. Both types output 415VAC three phase from a 240VAC single phase input. Motors should be configured for 415VAC i.e no need to convert any to delta 240VAC.

The downside of a static converter is that your lathe will probably be a bit down on power. The static converters will only run your motor at somewhere between 60 and 80% power, whereas a rotary phase converter will generate full power in your motor.

Do some googling on static vs rotary phase converters for a million different opinions of which tyope is best and where.

Graham

[Author]

Posts