Need help identifying Watchmaker’s Lathe

[Enough!Participant @enough]

Can anyone help in identifying this lathe? It looks like a Boley 1A but there a couple of things that make me wonder:

– the tailstock locking and clamping screws look a bit different.

– it isn't marked "Boley" anywhere. The marking on the end of the bed says:

STANDARD
MADE IN GERMANY
1693 (or possibly 1698)

I'm guessing the last bit is a serial number not a date of manufacture

If it's some kind of copy, it's a good quality one.

More pictures in Album

[Enough!Participant @enough]

Might be Boley but …

[Ady1Participant @ady1]

Post WW2 knock-off? German names were unpopular in the 50's.

[Enough!Participant @enough]

It's possible, Ady. Then again. "Boley" doesn't sound that German (to me) and it's marked "GERMANY" anyway.

If it's a copy, it's a good one. Wonder if it's East-German post-war. They might have dropped the Boley name.

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Bandersnatch,

Yes, it does look very much like the Boley 1A … except in the details you mentioned

…. although, being a Webster Whitcomb style, there is similarity between makes.

The tailstock body looks quite distinctive Boley, even if the clamp-screw is unusual.

I can't see from the photos … is the pulley drilled, for indexing ?

MichaelG.

.

Silly thought: could STANDARD actually be the maker's name ?

[RJWParticipant @rjw]

Very similar to a WW bed Lorch

John.

**LINK**

[Ady1Participant @ady1]

I think it was Aciera which put me in mind of this…

Sometimes a few guys leave and set up their own outfit and their product looks very similar to the original factory stuff but it's been made by a separate group of highly skilled ex-employees

Cottage industry stuff, but high quality

[Enough!Participant @enough]

Posted by Michael Gilligan on 09/02/2017 23:16:52:

…. although, being a Webster Whitcomb style, there is similarity between makes.

The tailstock body looks quite distinctive Boley, even if the clamp-screw is unusual.

I can't see from the photos … is the pulley drilled, for indexing ?

Silly thought: could STANDARD actually be the maker's name ?

Not familiar with "Webster Whitcomb" what's that?

Now that you mention it (and something I hadn't noticed) there are a series of index holes on the end surface of the large pulley section. The pulley is made of some kind of hard, black plastic – bakelite or some such – and there is a metal plate or ring attached with many holes. I'll see if I can come up with a pic tomorrow.

I had the same thought about the STANDARD but I couldn't unearth any information about putative "Standard" lathes.

[Enough!Participant @enough]

Posted by RJW on 09/02/2017 23:18:38:

Very similar to a WW bed Lorch

I see what you mean but there are some, perhaps significant, differences:

The double mounting columns seem more like the Boley 1B – I don't know if Lorch made a single post version. The profile of the columns is a bit different too.

The method of attaching the mounting columns to the base/bench is different: Lorch uses 4 screws from the top. Mine (and I believe the Boley) uses a single, large (3/8&quot stud project from below the column.

The Lorch cross-slide is completely different to mine, although that might just be differences in optional attachments.

[Enough!Participant @enough]

Posted by Ady1 on 10/02/2017 00:31:25:

Sometimes a few guys leave and set up their own outfit and their product looks very similar to the original factory stuff but it's been made by a separate group of highly skilled ex-employees

Cottage industry stuff, but high quality

It could certainly be that.

[Bob StevensonParticipant @bobstevenson13909]

A quick flick thru 'The Watchmakers Lathe' by De Carle shows no listing for 'standard' as a make but does show a Lorch 'WW' type lathe that is virtually facsimile to that shown here in the photos….many/most of the small details and shapes of parts are identical, includins locking knobs etc. See illustration on page 132(fig.203) of old copy (2nd edition 1971)   Caption reads; 'Lorch lathe with ball thrust bearing'

Edited By Bob Stevenson on 10/02/2017 08:53:11

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Posted by Bandersnatch on 10/02/2017 01:39:59:

Posted by Michael Gilligan on 09/02/2017 23:16:52:

…. although, being a Webster Whitcomb style, there is similarity between makes.

The tailstock body looks quite distinctive Boley, even if the clamp-screw is unusual.

I can't see from the photos … is the pulley drilled, for indexing ?

Silly thought: could STANDARD actually be the maker's name ?

Not familiar with "Webster Whitcomb" what's that?

Now that you mention it (and something I hadn't noticed) there are a series of index holes on the end surface of the large pulley section. The pulley is made of some kind of hard, black plastic – bakelite or some such – and there is a metal plate or ring attached with many holes. I'll see if I can come up with a pic tomorrow.

I had the same thought about the STANDARD but I couldn't unearth any information about putative "Standard" lathes.

.

Mr Webster and Mr Whitcomb of the American Watch Company designed a lathe [to be better than the established 'Geneva Pattern'] which was taken-up by Derbyshire, and eventually adopted as a 'standard' [commonly referenced WW] by most makers. … Parts from many sources are interchangeable, and there was, I believe, quite a lot of 'badge engineering' at one period.

MichaelG.

[BazyleParticipant @bazyle]

If it has the index holes on the pulley there 'should' be a mounting point on the rear of the headstock for the index pin on a bit of clock spring. (see Boley-Leinen) which it doesn't have. It may therefore have been modified at some point with a different pulley. It could be a product of post war East Germany legitimately or otherwise aimed at making foreign exchange by being sold into the western block.

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Posted by Bazyle on 10/02/2017 09:22:40:

If it has the index holes on the pulley there 'should' be a mounting point on the rear of the headstock for the index pin on a bit of clock spring.

.

… or, alternatively, a plain bore, for a simple [but very nicely toleranced] pin, as used by Levin.

MichaelG.

.

P.S. … here's an interesting little note about "Made in Germany"

http://www.dw.com/en/125-years-of-made-in-germany/a-16188583

Edited By Michael Gilligan on 10/02/2017 09:51:42

[Enough!Participant @enough]

Posted by Bob Stevenson on 10/02/2017 08:48:53:

A quick flick thru 'The Watchmakers Lathe' by De Carle shows no listing for 'standard' as a make but does show a Lorch 'WW' type lathe that is virtually facsimile to that shown here in the photos….many/most of the small details and shapes of parts are identical, includins locking knobs etc. See illustration on page 132(fig.203) of old copy (2nd edition 1971) Caption reads; 'Lorch lathe with ball thrust bearing'

I have the 6th Ed. and on that page there is indeed a short Bed Lorch lathe with ball thrust bearing. It does look very similar except for the round bits at the top of the headstock over the bearings (oilers?) and what looks like a little capstan wheel on the spindle outside the headstock. It also has a horizontal hole through the bed under the headstock – I don't know what that's for.

The thing that mostly bothers me is, again, the pedestal which has a flat land and screw-holes for mounting from the top. All the Lorches I've looked at are like that.

The Leinen WW of Fig 196 on Page-127 however is very close if they made it in a short-bed version.

[Enough!Participant @enough]

Posted by Michael Gilligan on 10/02/2017 09:49:07:

Posted by Bazyle on 10/02/2017 09:22:40:

If it has the index holes on the pulley there 'should' be a mounting point on the rear of the headstock for the index pin on a bit of clock spring.

.

… or, alternatively, a plain bore, for a simple [but very nicely toleranced] pin, as used by Levin.

Pics of the index ring and headstock. Spot on, Michael!

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

For info.

The two great U.S. manufacturers, Levin and Derbyshire both have websites.

I haven't used either brand, but have admired both from afar.

Recent production from both is more Pultra-style, but I note that Levin is still listing a set of Step Collets in WW size.

MichaelG.

.

https://levinlathe.com/StepCollets.htm

http://fwderbyshire.com/history.html

P.S. The Peerless headstock shown at the bottom of this page is also worth a look:

http://www.lathes.co.uk/peerless/

Edited By Michael Gilligan on 11/02/2017 09:57:10

Edited By Michael Gilligan on 11/02/2017 10:12:29

[Steve CrowParticipant @stevecrow46066]

Looks very similar to a Moseley (USA) headstock I have complete with bakelite pulley and index ring. I don't have the rest of the lathe but I'm going to use it for a small vertical mill I'm building.

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