Mystery post

[PlasmaParticipant @plasma]

hi all.

My brother is into local history and has spotted a roadside post with a locked box on it that he thinks may hark back to the days we had trams in our area.

Im not sure and think it may be street lighting related.

To throw other things into the mix it is close to a railway line and a now filled in canal.

I can't quite make out the cast in lettering but I think it might say Qualters and Smith?

Anyone care to venture an opinion as to its original purpose.

Mick

[PlasmaParticipant @plasma]

[Rod RenshawParticipant @rodrenshaw28584]

Qualters and Smith made machine tools in Barnsley, in Yorkshire.

Perhaps they also made street furniture like this post. So the name may be just the manufacturer and not indicate the purpose which this item served.

It has the look of a switchbox, fusebox or similar, so it could have switched or supplied almost anything, traffic lights, street lights etc. depending on location. Canals seems unlikely as (In UK anyway) canals don't seem to have had any electrical systems at all. Is there a chance there was something on the top which is now missing?

The applied number suggests it was part of a largish system so perhaps the Local Authority planning or roads departments might know?

Rod

[PlasmaParticipant @plasma]

Hi Rod,

Curiously enough its sited about five miles from the Qualters factory in Barnsley. I have a QS hacksaw in the shop just because I live in Barnsley. I didn't know they made other castings, but I might be imagining the letters spell out qualters and smith.

The applied letters made me think of street lighting asset numbers but its probably too small for a lamp standard. And I couldn't think why it woukd need a fuse box on it.

It does look similar to some images of tram signal equipment.

Maybe a mail to the council highways department might be of use.

Mick

[duncan webster 1Participant @duncanwebster1]

Or the Tramway Museum at Crich, which is a belting day out if you're anywhere near

**LINK**

[Chris Evans 6Participant @chrisevans6]

Plus 1 for a day at Crich. The box on a post stirs memories of the bus or tram inspectors at a local terminus opening the box. Maybe it just held a clock to keep on schedule ?

[Brian GParticipant @briang]

It should be easy to eliminate tramways by comparing its location to the Barnsley and District or Dearne District routes. It it is on either of these, perhaps it is worth comparing it to the sawn-off traction poles that Wikipedia says are to be found in Upper Sheffield Road?

Brian G

[SamsarandaParticipant @samsaranda]

The applied lettering is identical to the asset numbers that local councils use for street lighting equipment, I have a lamp standard outside my house with identical lettering.
Dave W

[Clive Brown 1Participant @clivebrown1]

In the old days, some operators required 'bus and tram drivers to "clock-in" at various points along their routes, usually the terminii. I remember this in the Birmingham area.They used a key in a roadside cabinet. Could this be the remains of such a device?

[GeorgineerParticipant @georgineer]

If it takes a square or triangular key you could always knock one up and have a look. Put on your high-vis jacket and a hard hat and nobody will notice you. Carry a clipboard and make notes…

George B.

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

I think it's what they call in the trade a 'Power Pillar'. Used for all sorts of purposes.

As this one is marked 76 with modern stick on numbers, I think it's still active, or has been until recently. Might be revealing to find boxes 74 and 75.

The modern marking destroys any association with trams, canals or trolley buses. I vote for Plasma's street lighting suggestion. Why not open the door and look inside? I think the box will contain the master fuse / isolator for a line of street lamps. Other possibilities: anything consuming power outdoors needing a maintenance point. Belisha beacons, traffic lights, railway signals, speed cameras, telecoms, fire alarms, time clocks etc.

The obvious age of Plasma's cast-iron example rules out Fibre-optic networking and electric car recharging but such are to be seen in town centres.

I don't see Qualters and Smith in the characters, maybe Sulli … Smith Ltd, and the second line 'Old Foundry …..' Graces Gulde doesn't list any likely Sullivans.

Dave

[Stuart Smith 5Participant @stuartsmith5]

It is most likely a box belonging to the local council street lighting department.

It may be worth a call or email to them.

Regarding Dave (SOD)‘S suggestion to open the box. DON’T !! Apart from the fact it belongs to someone else, you don’t know what you may find inside. If it contains electrical equipment it may be in poor condition and also you might not be able get it to lock again.

Stuart

[Nick Clarke 3Participant @nickclarke3]

Posted by Clive Brown 1 on 31/08/2020 10:03:52:

In the old days, some operators required 'bus and tram drivers to "clock-in" at various points along their routes, usually the terminii. I remember this in the Birmingham area.They used a key in a roadside cabinet. Could this be the remains of such a device?

The Birmingham ones were Bundy clocks. There are several still in place round the West Midlands, including one at the Wythall Transport Museum where I am a member of Elmdon MES who run the Wythall Miniature Railway.

Edited By Nick Clarke 3 on 31/08/2020 11:52:27

[old martParticipant @oldmart]

SOD would look for 74 and 75 and I would look for 77 and 78.

[PlasmaParticipant @plasma]

Hi all,

Crich tramway museum are being kind enough to have a look at photos of the post to see if they can identify it as tram related.

Our highways department will also look at their records for street lighting.

I will post a better picture and explanation as soon as I have any information.

Many thanks to all who contributed

Mick

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

I had a PM from from Mark Frampton pointing out Qualters and Smith's address in Graces Guide is:

QUALTERS & SMITH BROS LTD
OLD FOUNDRY BARNSLEY

As 'SMITH', 'LTD', and 'OLD FOUNDRY' all appear in the right places on the door, I think Mark has almost certainly identified who made the post.

I thought the first 4 letters were SULL, which has two letters in common with QUAL, and Mick suggested Qualters & Smith at the outset.

Let's hope a better photo confirms the match!

Still betting on the pillar containing a fuse for a line of street lights or similar.

Dave

[PlasmaParticipant @plasma]

Slight update…

Crich compared it to their archives but coukd not find a match although they did mention similar posts with lockers on them for documents for the tram.

I visited the site again today and the door is inches thick in paint, but the clever company cast their details in the back panel too and it is Qualters Smith bros ltd old foundry Barnsley

I will contact highways to ask their view on asset numbers.

It is a far beefier thing than I imagined, the top post flange is 8 inch diameter with a blanking plate bolted on.

Stand by fir more

[John HaineParticipant @johnhaine32865]

There is one that looks a bit like that near my son's house near Derby, except the front is open and it has some kind of mechanism visible in it. As I'm there tomorrow I will check it out.

[Martin WParticipant @martinw]

How about a timer for street lighting that had to be set or wound periodically prior to the days of light sensors and remote signal control. I look forward to finding out what it is, it's purpose and age. The fact that a nondescript tatty old piece of street furniture has caused so much interest must be a reflection of the members of this forum's curiosity.

[Nicholas FarrParticipant @nicholasfarr14254]

Hi, well if it turns out to be redundant, maybe you could persuade whoever owns it, to let you ripe it out, tidy it up, slap a nice round table on top and turn the box into a drinks cabinet. It could be pretty unique.

Regards Nick.

Edited By Nicholas Farr on 02/09/2020 18:32:00

[PlasmaParticipant @plasma]

It is a bit on the big side fir a table support lol

Edited By JasonB on 03/09/2020 11:41:43

[Grenville HuntParticipant @grenvillehunt47315]

This may sound stupid but could it possibly contain a fire hydrant, just looking at the bottom pipe size!

Gren.

[Nicholas FarrParticipant @nicholasfarr14254]

Posted by Plasma on 02/09/2020 22:32:46:

It is a bit on the big side fir a table support lol

Hi Plasma, well you don't want to have to stoop down to get at the drinks out and it only needs a table big enough to pour into the glasses and you could put a post in the middle holding a stem glass rack, paint it in a colour SWMBO likes and she's sure to love it. It would make a good talking point when visitors come round.

Regards Nick.

Edited By SillyOldDuffer on 03/09/2020 09:17:02

[jon hill 3Participant @jonhill3]

Just a thought, might it be an old policemans telephone box. I was led to believe that before the days of 2 way hand held radios or mobiles, there were telephone cabinets similar to this….

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

Those asset numbers almost certainly link it to a highways use.

Neil

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