My Starrett clamp can cause cancer….

[lfoggyParticipant @lfoggy]

I don't often order directly from America but when I lost a 'snug' for a nice Starrett set I had, it was the only place I could find a replacement. Imagine my surprise when the item arrived in its nice red Starrett box but with a label warning me that the clamp can cause cancer. On closer reading this risk seems to be limited to Californians and, as I live in Birmingham, I think I am safe.

Should I be taking any precautions?

Edited By lfoggy on 08/06/2021 17:36:17

[lfoggyParticipant @lfoggy]

[old martParticipant @oldmart]

Yes, don't chew it.

[Tony Pratt 1Participant @tonypratt1]

Jeez the world has gone mad! Now someone will pop up to justify the label.

Tony

[Mark RandParticipant @markrand96270]

The labels are printed with lead based ink and fixed to the box with a plutonium based glue…

Edited By Mark Rand on 08/06/2021 18:56:38

[Bill PhinnParticipant @billphinn90025]

Posted by Tony Pratt 1 on 08/06/2021 17:56:03:

Jeez the world has gone mad! Now someone will pop up to justify the label.

Tony

I'm sure Starrett could justify the label, since its existence, like that of many such labels these days, can be explained in one word: litigation.

[Jon LawesParticipant @jonlawes51698]

Posted by Tony Pratt 1 on 08/06/2021 17:56:03:

Jeez the world has gone mad! Now someone will pop up to justify the label.

Tony

Isn't it awful when people discuss things?

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

The referenced website will give you the story: **LINK**

https://www.p65warnings.ca.gov

But if you’ve lived in Birmingham for a while, you have probably already ingested orders-of-magnitude more Lead than 63% of Californians would consider safe.

MichaelG.

[DMBParticipant @dmb]

Been a long time since the 2 Ks were boasting "mines bigger than yours" like teenagers in a changing room, but fact is, Krushchev and Kennedy s penny bangers chucked loads of radioactive muck high into the atmosphere and it's still falling back to earth today, increasing 'background radioactivity' half a century later. Cancer treatment centres very busy, wonder how many Cs can be blamed on the Ks toys?

[Nigel Graham 2Participant @nigelgraham2]

I'm puzzled how they even imagine the clamp can "expose" you to lead, even if it is made from free-cutting steel. Or how items so clearly dangerous in the state that harbours Hollywood would be perfectly safe in the state next door.

"State"….. Hmmmm.

In my working life my superiors sometimes became all waffly and terrified by scrap pieces of a material called Lead Titanate, insisting it could not be put in the ordinary rubbish skip but unable to offer any sensible disposal advice.

It was that L-word that got their mouse-leads in a twist.

Yet it is a ceramic – as far as I know virtually insoluble in anything short of perhaps hydroflouric acid, and certainly insoluble in water. I hoped they did not keep their wine in crystal-glass decanters and serve their Sunday Dinners on plates made from china-clay, from kitchens with glazed stoneware sinks and genuine granite (or basalt sold as "granite" ) work-tops….

What did I know though? I were only a lab-floor oik with no high-flown ologies in maths and computers!

Edited By Nigel Graham 2 on 08/06/2021 22:12:39

Edited By Nigel Graham 2 on 08/06/2021 22:13:28

[Jim MasonParticipant @jimmason14480]

"By law, a warning must be given for listed chemicals unless the exposure is low enough to pose no significant risk of cancer or is significantly below levels observed to cause birth defects or other reproductive harm."

How on earth can that clamp pose a 'significant' risk of exposure to anything. Totally nuts.

[Ady1Participant @ady1]

Posted by Michael Gilligan on 08/06/2021 19:33:50:

But if you’ve lived in Birmingham for a while, you have probably already ingested orders-of-magnitude more Lead than 63% of Californians would consider safe.

MichaelG.

Like!

[lfoggyParticipant @lfoggy]

If it's considered necessary to put this warning on an inert steel clamp, then any item made of steel, or just containing steel, must carry the same warning. Thats virtually everything in a workshop and beyond. I would guess every person in the UK has physical contact with steel every day.

The value of warning labels then becomes nil….

Do all steel alloys contain lead?

[Martin KyteParticipant @martinkyte99762]

Posted by lfoggy on 09/06/2021 09:29:03:

Do all steel alloys contain lead?

No. But all substances are toxic including water.

regards Martin

[Oven ManParticipant @ovenman]

The box for my Starrett automatic centre punch has the same label. I don't think it refers to the product itself, more to the to the use of it on materials that may contain carcenagetic elements like lead.

Peter

[John OlsenParticipant @johnolsen79199]

It is a CYA thing, you can get in trouble in California by not putting the label on, but you don't get in trouble by putting it on when it is not needed. So the natural result is that firms play it safe by putting it on practically anything.

John

[larry phelan 1Participant @larryphelan1]

Just to be sure, to be sure, as they say around here !

[mark costello 1Participant @markcostello1]

If We could only find a way to put a toxic label on Hollywood…………..!

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

Don't see a problem with warning labels; I'd rather be told there's a risk and make my own mind up than be sold potentially harmful goods and discover the dangers myself. I like the Nanny State to mark dangerous bends in the road with big chevron signs that glow in the dark.

I think information is good. Guesswork, assumptions, 'common-sense', prejudice, beliefs, ignorant opinion and old-wives tales are lazy and risky.

Happens the State of California take a particularly tough line on hazardous materials, and the link on the label spotted by Michael is helpful in understanding that. Thanks to California, we know the Starrett product contains Lead, and being intelligent chaps we understand that's unlikely to matter in a workshop. Would matter if the product was much used by pregnant ladies, or small children chewed it. California don't guess who the end-user is; all products containing one or more of their list of hazardous materials must be labelled. Simples! – it's not assumed products are only bought by people who know their stuff.

Ignorance may be bliss, but knowledge is power. Presumably chaps who hate safety warnings never read instructions either. Not me! I find it's easier to assemble flat-pack furniture by following the manufacturers comic book guide rather than doing it my way. And I always read the small print in contracts before signing anything!

Dave

 

Edited By SillyOldDuffer on 10/06/2021 11:48:28

[pgk pgkParticipant @pgkpgk17461]

At one point a very common item to dispense was discovered as labelled a 'Class C' carcinogen in the US.
This caused a panic amongst owners using it on their cats because they hadn't looked up the definition thereof.
The definition being a substance that hasn't been proven not to cause cancer.

pgk

[Howard LewisParticipant @howardlewis46836]

Take the doors off your workshops!

There is a danger that you might trap your fingers when closing!

And as for having electricity and rotating machinery in there!.

Common sense is not that common any more where legislators and the legal profession are concerned.

By typing this, I risk R S I. Who do I sue?

Howard

.

[Rik ShawParticipant @rikshaw]

“By typing this, I risk R S I. Who do I sue?”

Your keyboard manufacturer of course for not warning you that excessively fast wrist movements can lead to friction burns and blindness.

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Sorry, Howard … I think you are perhaps missing the point that the dangers of apparently innocuous materials like Lead were not appreciated until quite recently.

We used Lead-based pigments in the paint on Baby’s toys and cot … and gave the poor little thing tap-water that had flowed through miles of Lead pipe. None of the danger in this is revealed by “common sense” … only by science, and the dissemination of information.

MichaelG.

[Anonymous]

People get inured to it inside and outside of California.

In the US, commercials for prescription drugs are allowed on television provided the manufacturer warns of potential side effects. You might think that would lead to them putting "spin" on those side-effects to minimise them.

They do just the opposite … they list any potential side effects, however minor and emphasise them. The result is that people become totally inured to the bad stuff and hear only what they want to, tuning out the rest.

(Commercials for Viagra-type drugs are quite amusing actually).

Edited By Peter Greene on 10/06/2021 17:24:47

[Bill Davies 2Participant @billdavies2]

And to add to the concerns about lead pipes, a government research paper (1997) estimated that 34% of houses still received water through lead pipes. I wonder how many of our houses still have lead pipes (mine does). We don't demolish many and we build a relatively small number each year.

Research Paper

But don't be too concerned, the water companies are required to ensure the water is never acidic:

pH of tap water

Makes me wonder what that 1mm of exposed tin-lead alloy in a soldered pipe connection might do to me? So why do we have to use unleaded solder in potable water supplies?

Bill

[Author]

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