Mk1 Super 7 – What colours ?

[Dave WhippParticipant @davewhipp44543]

Hi – Hope someone can help out here.

I am restoring / rebuilding a Super 7 recent ebay purchase. It's a MK1 with the oil dripper and sight glass, 1958 model or thereabouts going from the serial number.

I'm getting to the stage of repainting – Obviously the main colour is Myford Grey but when I purchased it a previous owner had painted the gap between the bed rails a horrendous shade of pale yellow, and had picked out the raised "Myford" and "Super 7" in the same disgusting yellow.

Is this correct or should it be red or should it all be grey ?

Also, the brackets that mount the cross slide and top slide handles, should they be grey or black ?

Cheers – Dave.

[Dave WhippParticipant @davewhipp44543]

[HopperParticipant @hopper]

Don't know about your specific model, but the yellow you describe was standard trim on some models. But it's your lathe so paint it red if that's what you like. I agree with you: it looks better.

Top and cross slide brackets were usually black. Satin black looks best. Covers up casting roughness. Thread chaser dial body was also black.

[Martin King 2Participant @martinking2]

Hi, I believe that the grey paint code is RAL 7100

Martin

[Former MemberParticipant @formermember19781]

[This posting has been removed]

[Mike CrossfieldParticipant @mikecrossfield92481]

The creamy yellow colour was standard for the inside of the bed and lettering, and the early Super 7s had the crossslide and topside brackets painted in the same grey as the rest of the machine. Lots of useful info and pictures at http://www.lathes.co.uk

[Phil BoylandParticipant @philboyland37326]

When I restored my ML7 I went for deep red down the centre, which I thought looked the business. Also went for the same red on my late model green Super7 when I restored that. I'm not a fan of the yellow personally and if you plan to keep it, go for whatever you like I say.

[Peter SansomParticipant @petersansom44767]

I have a 1958 Super 7, sight glass headstock, cone clutch. The inside of the bed and lettering is a cream colour.

[Dave WhippParticipant @davewhipp44543]

Thanks everyone.

Yes, red it's going to be – I just thought that grey and custard yellow was such an odd combination surely the factory wouldn't have turned them out like that originally ? Maybe the paint guy was colourblind.

Lotus green & yellow, now that's a good combination, but dark grey and yellow – Nah.

Satin black for the slide brackets – that's good – thanks.

Dave.

[Dave WhippParticipant @davewhipp44543]

Posted by Peter Sansom on 28/11/2018 10:42:26:

I have a 1958 Super 7, sight glass headstock, cone clutch. The inside of the bed and lettering is a cream colour.

Actually that's more like it – Hmmmm. Might have to give this some thought before I buy the paint….

Dave.

[egaParticipant @ega]

Nottingham Myford used to turn up at shows with Sevens in a variety of non-standard colours.

When I repainted my grey 1960s Super Seven I opted for the much more tasteful green – mutton dressed up as lamb!

[Peter SansomParticipant @petersansom44767]

I have had the lathe for since 89 and it came out of an industrial environment. So I assume that it has never been painted, particularly as the grey is in a terrible state, flaking off the belt guards etc. The year of manufacture was confirmed by the then Australian agent who contacted Myford. In addition the Serial number is a about 120 higher than the S/N of where the cone clutch was introduced. Will add a picture in the morning.

[davebParticipant @daveb17630]

In the 60s/70s Myfords got a touch of flower power and produced some lathes in interesting colours. I particularly admired the bright orange. Hippies with lathes, whatever next? Daveb.

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

Posted by daveb on 28/11/2018 16:15:04:

Hippies with lathes, whatever next? Daveb.

I don't know real hippies very much into make and mend, in the spirit of the Whole Earth Catalogue.

Neil

[Peter SansomParticipant @petersansom44767]

The photos show the colours. I know it needs general painting. The Super 7 on the Headstock Belt cover was also picked out in cream, but all that paint has flaked off.

[larry phelan 1Participant @larryphelan1]

Dont see it makes much difference what colour a machine is as long as it works !

Should I now get my tin hat ??

[Former MemberParticipant @formermember19781]

[This posting has been removed]

[larry phelan 1Participant @larryphelan1]

Welcome to my hat Bill !

Yes,I think many of these machines are bought more to be looked than used,or perhaps the restoration is an end in itself. I suppose it,s a case of "Whatever turns you on " Would make no difference to me if the machine was black with pink dots,or yellow with green stripes.

My Chinese lathe is painted khaki and red unusual ? maybe,but it helps it to blend in well with the general state of the workshop,and when I cut a few lumps out of myself. Also helps it to keep a low profile.

My mill is painted cream,a bit "Showy " I think,but then "Live and let live" I say,if it,s happy and works,who am I to argue.

When they,re all covered in swarf,who cares what colour they are ?

Think we might need to get another tin hat,I can see the flak coming !!

Why do I always manage to stir the pot ? I never mean to [hand -on- heart ]

[Dave WhippParticipant @davewhipp44543]

Thanks all once again. Grey & Red it is going to be.

It's not going to be a show piece, it's only brush painted, but after having hand scraped the bed, bought a new "wide" saddle & apron, converting to metric, putting a 3 phase motor on etc etc – I thought as I will probably be spending many hours in front of it in the future it might as well be easy on the eye, which it certainly wasn't before.

The stomach churning yellow would have seriously affected the accuracy of the machined parts.

Dave.

[HughEParticipant @hughe]

Dave, I have exactly the same model. In the family since new . Grey and cream, not custard yellow. When I cleaned mine up I used plain white instead of the cream. Its a lot easier to find parts that fall into the bed with light colour. Whilst you have it apart paint the toothed gear on the spindle and mark off the teeth to help with gear cutting etc in the future. I think this was a GT idea.

Hugh

[Dave WhippParticipant @davewhipp44543]

Thanks Hugh – the tip about painting & marking the spindle gear sounds useful – Ta. I shall look into it.

Since I have stripped and inspected my ebay purchase I think my P.O. has assembled my S7 from a pile of various well worn S7 and ML7 parts, slapped on a coat of regular grey house paint, plus the custard yellow, and whacked it on ebay. When I stripped the paint down from all the parts, some were grey, some were green and some parts blue. Also several bolts / screws very loose, some bolts too long for their holes in the castings.

Anyway I now have the bed & saddle together in a homemade steel tray on a concrete bench and it's looking much better. Many hours of tedious graft has got the bed scraped as flat as I can get without a full size proper surface plate (I used a piece of 12mm thick plate float glass instead – not ideal but the best under the circumstances). I also bought a late wide bed saddle with virtually no wear marks to go on it, the original was well worn. Vertical bed ways jig sanded parallell to the rear untouched vertical.

Cross slide and top slide turned out to be ML7 not super 7 so I have bought S7 replacements Will scrape and check them before fitment,

Early MK1 drum clutch unit appears to be seized and as there's no new parts available I have bought a complete used MK 2 clutch assembly instead to future proof the machine.

Shows the dangers of buying unseen online, however I'm getting there one step at a time. Glad I had a previous ML3 to tinker with over the last few years.

I know I could have gone for a brand new far eastern generic lathe for what I've spent but –

Will I still be able to buy spares for it in 5 – 10 years time?

Co2 / miles / green credentials ?

No challenge or learning or personal satisfaction in it's refurbishment.

No history

No UK pride.

Dave.

Edited By Dave Whipp on 01/12/2018 00:28:40

[Chris TriceParticipant @christrice43267]

Did you check the fit of the saddle at the chuck end of the bed compared with tailstock end i.e. does it tighten up? This would indicate bed wear which would arguably respond better to a regrind. Worth checking particularly on an older machine without an induction hardened bed.

[Peter SansomParticipant @petersansom44767]

The way to check the bed is to strip the bed including the headstock. If you have a good long straight edge, I used a 900mm Moore & Wright, Look for wear with feeler gauges under the first 150mm of carriage travel, particularly front shear. I can send you the wear pattern I found.

Had the bed ground on a surface grinder about 40Km from where I live. Think it cost me $80Au about a year ago. Cost more to get the saddle machined for conversion, $120Au, from another shop.

While the bed bed is probably not perfect, it is a lot better than before the regrind.

[Dave WhippParticipant @davewhipp44543]

Thanks for the responses.

I removed the saddle assembly and tailstock to lighten the machine for transport home. On inspection the original saddle was obviously massively worn, on closer inspection the oilers were full of hardened grease so no idea when it last had a proper oiling.

I was OK with scraping the bed, but the saddle would need more serious work so I bought a used (late model, wide guide) saddle with virtually zero wear – factory machine marks still very obvious – hardly any visible wear. Should save me a lot of time in the long run.

So I didn't try the saddle to bed fit before the bed scrape, but after many, many hours of tedious scraping I got the bed flat – Well as flat as I can and a whole lot better than it was previously. The main wear on the bed was on the front edge of the front rail, starting around 1 1/2" from the headstock end.

I made myself a carbide scraper, used a thick sheet of float glass as a surface plate and it took around 3 weeks scraping for 2 or 3 hours most evenings until I got even blue spotting all over the top of the bed. Obviously most of the hard scraping work was at the unworn tailstock end, and more on the rear rail than the front.

I decided not to scrape under the headstock, so as to leave the original reference there, thinking that I can shim up the tailstock later if required so the centres match. I realise this isn't 100% perfection but I think I can live with it. I can always revisit this in the future if It throws up noticable errors.

I miked up the verticals measuring from the untouched rear one, not too much wear there but to correct it I welded up a square steel frame, bolted 2 sealed bearing races on the back and a piece of square section aluminium tube on the front. I then stuck some sandpaper (the Klingspor self adhesive backed stuff that bodyshops use, not regular stuff), to the ali extrusion, put plastic pads underneath so not to mark the freshly scraped bed – then slid it backwards and forwards along the bed using the bearings as rollers against the rear vertical, and the sandpaper to clean up the other verticals till they all came in parallel to the rear.

As for the undersides of the rails, after a good clean up I went round with a micrometer and got good readings all the way along. As I was going from narrow to a wide guide I didn't need to check the inner ones.

I had problems when fitting up the apron to the new wide guide saddle, the handwheel wouldn't turn and the split nut wasn't centred on the leadscrew. Turns out the bolt holes in the later saddles are approx 2mm further inboard than the early one, so I have had to slot out the holes and make up some custom washers. That's all working nicely now, no tight spots taking the saddle end to end. I just used the shim stacks that came with the later saddle I bought, they seemed loose before I oiled it up so I tried peeling off one shim, refitted them and it clamped up solid, so I have put the shims back and all free again, now I have oiled it I cannot detect any play by hand.

A question though – If I was to check with feeler gauges, what sort of clearance should I expect between saddle & bed in a perfect world ?

I'm currently working on the headstock assembly at the moment – all looks good so far except the rear bearings have also had a dose of grease instead of oil although they seem fine by hand. I am seriously considering the taper roller conversion (what do you chaps think ?) – but I'll need to get it running first so I can machine the collars to suit.

There's also the drip oiler. I unscrewed the sight glass whilst stripping for clean up & paint – Unfortunately the white plastic insert behind it has cracked, I would be amazed if they are still available, but although I could make a replacement I cannot get the brass drip tube out, and that holds it in place. Does anyone know how the brass tube fits to the headstock casting ? I'm guessing it's on a taper. ?

At the moment I have used a bolt, a large washer and a big nut as a spacer to put some tension on it, given it a good dose of plus gas but still no joy. I have tightened the bolt down as far as I dare, but I don't want to do any damage.

I'm leaving it under tension overnight – well you never know.

Was thinking of applying some gentle heat but then if I understand correctly brass expands more than cast iron so that's probably going to make it tighter ?

Any suggestions / ideas welcome.

Cheers – Dave.

 

 

 

Edited By Dave Whipp on 03/12/2018 23:56:14

Edited By Dave Whipp on 03/12/2018 23:58:03

[Peter SansomParticipant @petersansom44767]

I would not remove the Oiler tube. Had a look at my lathe and the tube is tight. I have a drawing that shows it has 2 different diameters, but without a photo cannot say accurately. If you made a new insert, referred to a a thimble with a slot in the back the shape and size of the oil nozzle. When I looked at the thimble on my lathe it is not tight and the hole in the top is much larger than the nozzle thimble.

An alternative option would be to leave the thimble out, machine a piece of tube to hold a sight glass cover and loctite it to the housing. The white Plastic makes it easier to see the oil, that is all.

I have just finished the Taper Roller bearing conversion. If you are doing the conversion look for good quality bearings, SKF, NSK, RHP etc. Do not use cheap bearings, there are differences. Also watch the recess machined in the retainers, for SKF bearings the bore had to be 48.5mm or it rubbed on the bearing cage. The original spacer was used.

The Myford shim packs are comprised of 0.002" shims. you should be able to close the gap to less than 0.002". This is assuming that the bed has an even thickness and carriage does not jam as you get closer to the tailstock. Normal practice is to remove the headstock put the bed upside down in a surface grinder, and grind the bottom of the feet. the bed is then turned up the right way and the top is ground including the headstock end. The biggest issue is finding a surface grinder with enough travel.

From the grind marks on the bed under headstock, the bed was ground on a vertical spindle surface grinder similar to the Churchill Snow grinder.

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