Me, the lathe or both of us?

[James Jenkins 1Participant @jamesjenkins1]

[James Jenkins 1Participant @jamesjenkins1]

Hi all,

Ok, so I think I have had my fun now on a treadle lathe, and it's time to give in and move a little closer to the C21st and power my Drummond M. Over the last two days I have been making the parts illustrated below. Whilst the wheels weren't too bad, the shaft has been slow going. Reducing the diameter from 3/4" to 7/16" had to be done in .010" cuts, or else the going was impossible. This meant about 15/20 passes, with only the last few being finishing ones. I know it was silver steel, but still. The actual result was good.

The resident old boy (with three lathes to his name) came in and had a good old laugh at me and "told you so" when I said I might have to put a motor on. He said that really a lot of what I am trying to do is a bit beyond a Drummond / Myford M and that I would be better off with a Boxford/Colchester/Harrison lathe.

What's your view? I have a long bed Myford M which I have just stripped down and was going to put on the treadle, should I sell both lathes and get a more meater machine or would these Ms really be up to these sort of jobs? I don't really want to spend the time setting up the long bed and motorising it if it's not really the right lathe.

As much as I have enjoyed my workout over the last couple of days, it's not really practical to spend so long making these bits and pieces.

All and any thoughts welcome.

James

[David George 1Participant @davidgeorge1]

On my M type I can take substantial cuts .040" to .060" in silver steel no problem. I think it would take about half an hour to turn the wheel shaft, perhaps you are using the wrong tooling, and a motor and fine feed helps. Not as quick as a Colchester or Harrison perhaps but for the size of parts you are making should be no problem.

David

[Ady1Participant @ady1]

You will progress a lot faster if you power your lathe up, plus you can do autofeeding etc

As far as the lathes ability is concerned they put the M series on submarines ships and army repair units in WW2 because they are so good (which is why there are so many still about)

Edited By Ady1 on 05/05/2017 00:28:58

[HopperParticipant @hopper]

M type will do whatever a Boxford will. I use my M type on jobs much much bigger than what you posted with great success. It will take a .100" deep cut in mild steel without problems. (half-horsepower motor, not pedals though!). Never found silver steel to be particularly more difficult.

Power up, dude!

[HopperParticipant @hopper]

Here you go, Drummond M Type at work. Taking a .100" cut in a piece of inch steel bar about a foot long.

That's swarf, that is. Note width of swarf = depth of cut. Done at 400rpm with moderate feed rate, HSS tool bit. No chatter. No dramas.

Nowt wrong with a machine that will do that all day, and on a fine cut will hold size to less than a thou.

[James Jenkins 1Participant @jamesjenkins1]

Perfect! Just the reassurance I needed. Thank you. That's really impressive.

Right, I am now in the process of buying a solid looking stainless steel catering table frame, which I will will plank up with wood and insert a metal tray under. Then I will fit a 1/2 or 3/4 hp 36v motor and the usual speed/control gear we use on our solar conversions. Then we'll be away a bit more.

Cannot bring myself to get rid of the treadle one though, I do love it! So that will be for light jobs when I fancy a bit of exercise! Also I will do any wood turning on it.

Think it's going to work out well.

James

[Ian S CParticipant @iansc]

Just keep your tools sharp.

Ian S C

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

J+1 razor sharp HSS tools.

They say nothing improves teh quality of your tool grinding as much as using a treadle lathe.

Neil

[Brian OldfordParticipant @brianoldford70365]

Posted by James Jenkins 1 on 05/05/2017 11:17:10:. . . . . .

Cannot bring myself to get rid of the treadle one though, I do love it! So that will be for light jobs when I fancy a bit of exercise! Also I will do any wood turning on it.

Think it's going to work out well.

James

As versatile speed-wise as a VFD too. (If you like that kind of thing.)

[HopperParticipant @hopper]

Yes, keeping your tool bit sharp is key. L H Sparey's book The Amateur's Lathe is about the best guide for beginners I have seen. His "knife tool" geometry works extremely well on these lathes. About a 55 degree included "angle of keen-ness" between the top and side surfaces of the tool. About 10 degrees of side clearance and about 25 degrees of side rake on the top surface. No back rake is used. Then hone the cutting edges on an oilstone, and stone a small radius on the cutting tip so it does not tear off.

I have also found it worth spending the money to get good quality brand name blanks of HSS as the cheaper no-name stuff dulls quickly or chips and fails rapidly in comparison. I don't use cutting fluid much. Bit out of a squirt bottle sometimes, mostly while milling. Usually diluted with water in the recommended ratio. Or neat for screw cutting. It does extend tool life but I don't much like the mess so tend not to bother. (Except for screwcutting where it's pretty much essential.)

Haven't had much luck with carbide toolong in the Drummond. It tends to slip the old flat belts if you try to take heavy cuts, which slows the spindle and tears the point off the tool. Although, I have found that using a poly-V belt run straight on the old flat pulleys a vast improvement but have not bought new carbide inserts yet to try them out as I am pretty happy with the good brand HSS.

Here's a few more of the Drummond doing a bit of serious work.

Chewing through a bit of one-inch thick steel plate with a 22mm diam. end mill to make a fixed steady for itself, then boring a three inch hole through the middle of the inch thick steel steady, using a fly cutter held in chuck.

Then some tricky turning, trepanning a 4" or so diamter disc of steel from a 6" square, a bit over 1/4" thick for the GHT dividing head plates.

Done in back gear. Plunging the 1/8" or so wide tool straight into the job. Surface finish is better than this photo shows, flash does weird stuff on shiny surfaces.

 

Edited By Hopper on 05/05/2017 13:33:58

[HopperParticipant @hopper]

Posted by James Jenkins 1 on 05/05/2017 11:17:10:

Perfect! Just the reassurance I needed. Thank you. That's really impressive.

Right, I am now in the process of buying a solid looking stainless steel catering table frame, which I will will plank up with wood and insert a metal tray under. Then I will fit a 1/2 or 3/4 hp 36v motor and the usual speed/control gear we use on our solar conversions. Then we'll be away a bit more.

Cannot bring myself to get rid of the treadle one though, I do love it! So that will be for light jobs when I fancy a bit of exercise! Also I will do any wood turning on it.

Think it's going to work out well.

James

Sounds good. I don't know anything about the motors you are using but generally speaking you would want to be sure to use a countershaft like the original motor-drive Drummonds did in order to have enough torque via the reduction ratio for heavy turning. Usual set up is to select pulley sizes so the countershaft is running at about 400rpm with a 1400rpm single phase motor. A 400rpm countershaft gives you about 400rpm spindle speed on the middle pulley on the headstock. And using the back gear of course increases torque again for super heavy turning. Just something to keep in mind when making your set up. I know some of the Chinese machines have variable speed motors but no countershaft and can suffer from lack of torque at low rpm. Not sure how they compare with your solar motors etc. Not my field.

Edited By Hopper on 05/05/2017 13:48:18

Edited By Hopper on 05/05/2017 13:49:48

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