making new lathe spindle

[Graeme WhitfieldParticipant @graemewhitfield34761]

Hello, ive just registered. Im a complete beginner and have just purchased my first lathe. Its a 1902 drummond. It has a split bearing type headstock with the spindle running in the cast iron. It has a bit too much play to adjust out. Both the spindle and the headstock have worn. I have about 0.12mm of lift in the spindle at the chuck.
My plan, maybe ambitious for a beginner, is to make a new spindle and ream the headstock to fit. I know this may not be super accurate, but would be better that it flopping about. The headstock adjusts to get it running paralell with the bed so vertical alignment is the main concern.
Would be easier to turn down and sleeve the old spindle but this is my only lathe. Would be better to bore the headstock and fit bushes but thats alot more likely to go wrong as ive not done anything like that before.
So im left with new spindle and reaming.
I assume you should ream hole first then make spindle to fit but as I say, this is my only lathe so new spindle first. Also means if I cant make a spindle i still have a lathe that is usable.
So, my question is, what do I make the spindle from? The steel needs to be machinable by a beginner with hss tooling. Does it need hardening? If so, that also needs to be doable by a beginner (I dont think original is hardened, would it be if running in cast iron?).
Ive had a bit of a search on the internet, I think I saw suggestions for en8?

Thanks.

[Graeme WhitfieldParticipant @graemewhitfield34761]

[Graeme WhitfieldParticipant @graemewhitfield34761]

As a new member, ive just realises you have a help and assistance catagory. I guess I should have put this there?

[Nick_GParticipant @nick_g]

.

I am far from a metallurgist but EN24 ( also known as 'shafting steel' ) is possible to machine with HSS

 

Nick

Edited By Nick_G on 23/02/2015 13:07:52

[Tony RayParticipant @tonyray65007]

Graeme,

Not wishing to pour water on your enthusiasm …

Headstock – this is the bigger challenge – I can't see that reaming is going to work – how are you going to ensure that the two bores are parallel to each other and the headstock. If I were doing this I'd line bore it – clearly you can't do this on your machine – perhaps someone local to you will step in and offer to do it for you. there has been a relatively recent article on line boring in Model Engineers Workshop re putting roller bearings in a Myford.

Spindle – I'd look to get it re-metalled as a first option – try a crankshaft recondtioning service ideally followed by grinding to you desired overall diameter (OD) but as its a relatively small dia. you need to check with them that its not going to distort the shaft. If you wait until the headstock is finished you can then specify your desired OD. Sleeving is a possibility – Loctite (not superglue) etc is incredibly strong if the parts are sized according their recommendations. Sleeving may be tricky if the bearing surfaces are the same dia or smaller once skimmed than the shaft in between.

Making a new spindle on an up-together lathe should be relatively straight forward but will involve screwcutting the spindle thread.

Might be worth seeing if you can pick up a complete replacement headstock – or was that you looking for one the other day ?

[Ady1Participant @ady1]

As a beginner I would avoid anything too technical at the start

A replacement headstock is your easiest route and Tony has laid out your best options

Must be frustrating when you're desperate to cut some metal

[Graeme WhitfieldParticipant @graemewhitfield34761]

Yes, was me looking for a headstock.
As for the reamed holes being parallel, I guess I was going to be relying on luck I think I have equal wear in spindle and bore, about 0.002″ on each. I was hoping I would get away with just cleaning that up with a reamer. I have no real experience of how that would go though. I sort of assumed it would be ok.Only one bearing NEEDS doing.
Getting the whole lot sorted by other people would be great but Im assuming it would cost quite alot to give someone the headstock and spindle and get it all sorted.

I was trying to come up with a way of fixing it with what I have available.

Do you think attempting this myself is likely to end in dissapointment and a ruined lathe?

[Roger HartParticipant @rogerhart88496]

A tricky job for a beginner. My first lathe was pretty rough and had that much slop but I managed OK for 20 years making telescope bits, an IC engine, gyroscope and all sorts of other bits. Get to know and love your lathe's imperfections before tearing into a fancy restore job. So live with the imperfections and get some experience is my advice and make a few things. If you want to take out a bit of slop try the cautious use of some thin brass shim – a bodge but simple and cheap. You haven't lived until you have used a cranky old lathe, a bit of slop is only a barrier to effortless parting off – and that's what hacksaws are for……

[Graeme WhitfieldParticipant @graemewhitfield34761]

Replacement headstocks are thin on the ground. They do sometimes come up though. Thing is, they made these from 1902 to 1912 but this style of headstock is onle on early 1902 models.

I can turn on it, it behaves well if I cut light, doesnt like parting though. With my inexperience , when I get to about 1cm diameter left it tries to dig in and ride over the tool and it all jams up.
I can make a few parts though, but nothing too serious untill this issue is sorted.

[Graeme WhitfieldParticipant @graemewhitfield34761]

Roger, I see you predicted my parting troubles

[Graeme WhitfieldParticipant @graemewhitfield34761]

Been thinking more about this reaming. The play was measured with the adjustment as tight as I dared without cracking the headstock. The play is nearly all up and down as the bore doesnt compress evenly. I assume I have, in reality, probably twice as much wear. I can think of ways it could be kept parallel when reamed, but not with the tooling available to me.
I guess its time to find out what it would cost to fix (too much I guess).
Im in chesterfield. Can anyone recomend any companies in chesterfield/sheffield areas who would even take on a small (but accurate) job like this?

[Ady1Participant @ady1]

Babbit may be another option, there is apparently a very old ME article from the 20s or 30s where old headstock bearings were repaired / poured In-situ by an ME reader, but my archive doesn't go back that far

You can search for old articles here

Edited By Ady1 on 23/02/2015 15:15:51

[Graeme WhitfieldParticipant @graemewhitfield34761]

Had crossed my mind.
I wasnt sure how good it would be, how big a gap would be needed for it to be stable and not peel, and I guess the scores (not too bad) on the spindle would need filling or you’d never get it out again.

I spoke to a couple of ‘pro’s’. One was too busy but suggested measure the bore and if its concentric get spindle plated and ground. One couldnt do it as he didnt have the right boring machine but suggested 2 more companies. I only phoned one but he was friendly, helpfull, seemed interestes and asked for photo’s so ill see what he says. Got a feeling its going to be spendy though

[Graeme WhitfieldParticipant @graemewhitfield34761]

No idea if I could add them to thread or not, but I put the photos I sent the engineer in an album on here if anyone is interested.
I dont know how youd view them though, this forum works different to any others ive used.

[Gordon WParticipant @gordonw]

My first lathe was in a worse state, it had solid brass split bearings and the spindle was almost screw cut. I did not know any better so filed the split in the bearings then scraped in to the spindle, this worked after a fashion but I would not recommend it. I would get the spindle plated and just try it.

[Graeme WhitfieldParticipant @graemewhitfield34761]

I have an idea, probably a stupid idea, but….
Do hand reamers have centers drilled in the ends?

Make a 3/4″ diameter parallel shaft center that I can put through the small bearing. I can snug the headstock down so its a good fit. The reamer locates on this center point. The other end of the reamer locates on a center in the tailstock which is adjusted so it can JUST slide along the bed. So, slidibg tailstock, center, reamer, center that slides through small headstock bearing.
Use a long sash clamp to hold it all together tight enough to hold it all stable but still able to rotate reamer. Should be able to guide the whole lot along the bed as reamer cuts the worn bearing journal. Both bearings should be parallel to each other and the bed.

Mad? Stupid? Or ‘might just work’

[Graeme WhitfieldParticipant @graemewhitfield34761]

A bit of searching shows you can get guides with a taper sleeve to help a reamed hole line up with a second hole.

Maybe there is life in the idea, but im concentrating on either replacement or getting someone else to do it as a proper job would be difficult with what I have available.

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

> The play is nearly all up and down as the bore doesn't compress evenly.

Is the bearing split horizontally?

if so, most of the wear will be at the top of the bearing (as cutting forces push the spindle up and back. This means you could get away with scraping the bottom of the top bearing half to tighten it up

Neil

[Graeme WhitfieldParticipant @graemewhitfield34761]

No, verticaly. Its not in too halfs either, just a slot under the bearing.
Silly design really, I guess thats why they changed it to a properly engineered bronze bearing within 6 months. Hoping ill find one of those headatocks for sale one day.

Ill measure it later, see if its still round when not compressed by the adjuster.

[blowlampParticipant @blowlamp]

By making a new spindle, it might be an opportunity to equip your lathe with a Myford standard nose fitting. You could then use compatible chucks and faceplates etc.

It appears to be solid, but is the spindle actually bored and fitted with a Morse taper?

Martin.

[Graeme WhitfieldParticipant @graemewhitfield34761]

Yes, it has a tiny bore and a mt1 taper.
I have considered, if making a spindle, seeing how much bigger I could go. I could increase diamater a fair bit, get a bigger bore, bigger nose thread and taper. Only limit is meat around the bearings and how far I could bore the pulley. I have 3 or 4 faceplates, one with lots of tapped holes, looks like a dividing plate but isnt, 2 faceplate chucks, a nice 4 jaw and a lovely 3 jaw so id need to bore and re thread all those too.
Still, could be a good opertunity to upgrade it.

Its been reground in its life, has new leadscrews and nuts and has been modified to fit a proper cross slide and top slide. I also have a traveling and fixed steady so on the whole, although its old and not all that stiff, its worth getting it sorted.

In fact, ill add a pic of the cross slide to my album (I cant put it in the thread from my phone). If anyone wants to see if they know what its from, no one seems to recognise it. Looks very ‘britannia’ to me.

Edited By Graeme Whitfield on 23/02/2015 18:28:27

[Graeme WhitfieldParticipant @graemewhitfield34761]

[Graeme WhitfieldParticipant @graemewhitfield34761]

Ok, so i worked out how to add a pic, but not how to put text as well!

Anyhow, getting sidetracked, anyone recognise these parts? Certainly not original.

Getting even more sidetracked, i knew about model engineer magazine but (dont tell anyone) i dont have much interest in trains.

I have just clicked the link at the top about model engineer workshop magazine and it looks like the best thing ever!

Subscription only or is it carried in any shops?

[Graeme WhitfieldParticipant @graemewhitfield34761]

Just seeing if this works.

[Gray62Participant @gray62]

Graeme, it is carried by WH Smith and a lot of other newsagents, My local Martin Mcall has both mags, often hidden in amongst the train buffs and tractor magazines

Graeme

[Author]

Posts