Macs -V- Windows PC’s

[RJWParticipant @rjw]

Russel and John, I've been down the Linux route, but like Microsoft, found there are as many opinions on the different distro flavours as there are Windows, I have neither the will or the time to try all versions.

From reviews, I decided to use Ubuntu10, which I have to say, was installed seamlessly and impressively quickly by the WuBi installer to create a dual boot system with Vista, and to be honest, it saved my bacon big time on one occasion when Vista's boot sector got damaged following a crash (bad update!), I was able to access my files and copy them to an external drive prior to a re-install, but later, Grub failed so badly, it fried the lot, it never got put back on again simply because I couldn't get my head around all the terminology, some times with all the mount and dismount commands, I wondered whether i was dealing with a computer or a cyber equestrian shagfest, but I found it too big a learning curve to master it,

Linux in any flavour at present is for people who have time to roll their sleeves up and dig into its guts and deal with problems, I don't have that luxury!

Linux is getting better all the time and is closer now to being totally user friendly out of the box than at any other time, but it isn't there yet, not for me anyway! I also couldn't find anything close to Paintshop Pro that would do what I need it to do!

John

[RJWParticipant @rjw]

Jason, as mentioned, I used a 'T' mobile 3G dongle which worked well, but it cost me £70 for a week so I don't use it there now, the line capacity is well under 500kB/s and we're only at the house for 4 months in any year which would mean paying €50 a month for an inclusive and poor service for 4 months use, dial-up is the only workable and affordable system at present!

I've also checked satellite BB, but it's as expensive as a fixed line system and not transferrable to the UK without extra charges!

When there are no updates going on, dial-up works passably ok for my needs, I can browse the websites I need to, and check webmail ok as long as I've disabled images loading, Outlook won't work at all anyway unless there is less than 250KB's of message data to download, but when the updates kick in, the whole shebang grinds to a halt, so I then have to resort to driving 10 miles to the nearest hypermarket and find a WiFi connection!

I’ve also checked tethering to my mobile as a dongle, but my provider won’t allow it and roaming charges are very high anyway, so the only sensible solution I've arrived at is to get rid of the cause of the grief, and that's Windows, I’ve never used Macs so it makes perfect sense for me to ask for user opinions, especially those who have moved from Microsoft products!

It's the updates I can't stick any longer; they're getting ever bigger and far more frequent, but Windows downloading updates against my wishes was the final straw, even just not having Windows and an AV product updating the second my modem connects would be sheer bliss, and if Macs will do that, it’ll be worth the change!

So far I’ve not heard one reason by any Mac user which would persuade me not to make that change!

John

[Russell EberhardtParticipant @russelleberhardt48058]

Posted by RJW on 13/11/2012 16:04:48: I also couldn't find anything close to Paintshop Pro that would do what I need it to do!

GIMP – Somewhere between Paintshop Pro and Photoshop, probably closer to Photoshop. Free downloads for Linux, MAC, and Windows.

Russell.

[Ian HewsonParticipant @ianhewson99641]

Hi

Go for it, you won't regret doing so.

I have used macs for years now after being given an old one using OS7, never looked back.

They are user friendly and easy to learn, even my wife who says she dosn't like computers uses the ipad and iphone when she thinks i am not looking.

Only thing to watch out for on second hand is faulty dvd drives, but they can be replaced with cheap usb drives if they go.

Buy one and use it, Apples word proccesors and spread sheets are good, but you can run Word etc on a Mac, even Windows if you really wanted to.

Ian

[TerrydParticipant @terryd72465]

FreeCad – free open source parametic cad program for Mac – improving all the time.

Regards

Terry

[John CoatesParticipant @johncoates48577]

Posted by RJW on 13/11/2012 16:04:48:

Linux in any flavour at present is for people who have time to roll their sleeves up and dig into its guts and deal with problems, I don't have that luxury!

Wouldn't count my 7 year old in that camp. She happily turns on a PuppyLinux PC, logs in and surfs the web and watches stuff. And to date (2 years) I've never had to go near it

[ZiggarParticipant @ziggar]

Posted by blowlamp on 13/11/2012 13:44:34:

Ziggar.

Could you enlarge on this please, as "A machine that has everything you need [barring software].", doesn't seem like you could do much with it? Can you get a Mac with a printer port that will run Mach3?

what i should have said was [barring additional specific user required software]
and if thats still not specific enough for you i mean additional software such as photoshop or MS office or any CAD software which dont come with any OS at all.

There is a load of software that comes with the vanilla install of OSX. All of which is full versions. Unlike windows that now seems to come with trial versions of just about everything else thats ever been written for the platform. Anything else needed can be obtained either via the App Store or the internet for everything else.

[John CoatesParticipant @johncoates48577]

Posted by Michael Gilligan on 13/11/2012 14:15:53:

Here is an interesting article about the origins of OS X

Thanks for that Michael

I always thought they bought a Linux distro. I am now wiser. I remember trialling BeOS

[blowlampParticipant @blowlamp]

So then, what would I be able to do with a Mac that I can't do with a Windows PC, say when I'm browsing the internet, or using my word processor, or drawing something in CAD – anything specific?

What is the difference?

Martin.

[Keith Wardill 1Participant @keithwardill1]

A little puzzled at the apparent opposition to Linux. I agree that some time ago Linux was 'Nerds' delight. I transferred from Windoze about three years ago – I really miss Windoze like I miss hourly enemas. The days of 'rolling up your sleeves and digging into the guts of Linux' are long gone.

Seriously – I agree there is a short learning curve for ex-Windows users, but there is nothing hard or long-winded about it. There is a huge library of excellent free software, and IMO it is easier to install than most Windows-based stuff. If you need advice, there are excellent online help forums.

I think the advantages of Linux easily outweigh the ludicrous cost of Apples for poseurs, or Windoze. The following link may give you some idea of what is available (and Ubuntu 12.10 has just been released if you are interested – and it can be run from a CD if you want to see what it is like without installing it – see the Ubuntu site.

http://www.makeuseof.com/pages/best-linux-distributions

http://www.makeuseof.com/pages/best-linux-software

I have nothing to do with producing Linux, just a very satisfied user.

[Ian AbbottParticipant @ianabbott31222]

I've been using Macs since the old Mac II, 1989.

Over the years there have been times when I've been forced to use Windows because of software compatability and have never been less than infuriated by Microsoft's rubbish. Blue screen of death, mindlessly convoluted ways of organizing, constant demands for contacting MS.

At the moment, we have a MacBook (Intel) a PPC G4 Powebook and a PPC G5, two on Leopard and the other on Lion.

I press the button, they start, I work.

Mac's own iLife and iWork have programs which are compatible with MS Office and will open MS Office Mac and Windows files and save as Windows files. The Mac will open all the Adobe Windows files and save as the same. Built in Preview will display stuff like Photoshop files, even if you don't have it on the computer. It'll let you save a copy and modify it. Built in WiFi and Bluetooth make it east to transfer files and talk to the phone.

I use an Orange dongle with the MacBook, it runs at G3+ a lot of the time, costs about £15 a month with a free dongle.

Ian

[Ian AbbottParticipant @ianabbott31222]

Almost forgot. Mac's aren't expensive.

Used G4 Powerbook DVD drive, Wi Fi, including a pile of software, £200 from a kid on the web.

Ian

[MICHAEL WILLIAMSParticipant @michaelwilliams41215]

The real advantage of Linux over Windows comes when actually writing software for engineering and scientific purposes .

Linux is a very capable but essentially simple in line modular system – basically you tell it what to do and it does that and nothing else . Windows in comparison is so complex and so unpredictable that you can never be entirely certain what is going to happen next .

The difference shows up in one particularly good example relevant to CNC where direct control of ports and strict timing are needed . Easy with Linux – much much more difficult with Windows .

[Sub MandrelParticipant @submandrel]

A purely personal perspective: since Widows 7 there is really not material advantage of Mac over PC or vice versa. They both work very well, but differently.

A week ago I spent half an hour sorting out a network printer under XP. On a W7 machine it was installed within 30 seconds.

Macs are still largely the preserve of architects and designers and those who want an air of mystique/prefessionalism/incompatibility because in the days when everyone can have a design package, everyone thinks they can design…

As for Linux, in the past it was a bit of a hair shirt. Now, maybe, it's better. I don't know.

I'm no luddite – the first Business Computer I used was a Sirius, then an Amstrad PC/W followed by one running CP/M.

My main warning (from grim experience), if you are a business don't let self-appojnted experts or, worse still, relatives of the staff, anywhere near your IT. It really is worth buying in professional support, but shop around and get recomendations.

Neil

(Who just won brownie points from his wife by getting the printer working again a change of router had changed its IP address.

Edited By Stub Mandrel on 13/11/2012 20:05:41

[Diane CarneyModerator @dianecarney30678]

Well, you've had just about as much advice as there is to be given, I should thihnk. I hope you go for it! I have worked with both PCs and Macs – as others have said; one through necesity and one through choice. I have only ever owned Macs and, to be honest, I wouldn't have one of those other things in the house. Really, in terms of power, function, compatibility etc there isn't much in it but in terms of useability a Mac is intuition in a box. You will never look back…. honest!
Also, do join YMUG – the Yorkshire Mac Users Group. More helpful than any 'aftercare' product and much cheaper!

Diane

[blowlampParticipant @blowlamp]

I do wish one of the pro-Mac crowd would give some concrete details as to what us PC-owning plebs are missing out on.

WHY will we never look back after getting a Mac?

Martin.

[Ex contributorParticipant @mgnbuk]

I used a 'T' mobile 3G dongle which worked well, but it cost me £70 for a week

Try http://www.motorhomewifi.com – European coverage, costs 2 Euro a day for 100Mb . Only charged for the days you use it

No opinion on Macs – never used one.

XP is stable & has been reliable for me on netbook & descktop, but agree updates a pain.

Did a dual boot install of Ubuntu on the netbook & it installed perfectly, with all features available under XP fully functional (power management, webcam, card readers etc.). Seems to work faster than XP & as I use Firefox (for the moment – trying Opera at the suggestion of the motorhomewifi chap, as it has a mode to substantially reduce download size of webpages when using data-capped services) and Open Office there was not much of a learning curve to get up & running. But Ubuntu seems to get large updates regularly as well, though download & installation is by choice at your convenience. I will probably go the Ubuntu route when XP is no longer supported – not impressed with W7 on my wife's laptop.

£0.02

Nigel B.

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Posted by blowlamp on 14/11/2012 00:24:22:

I do wish one of the pro-Mac crowd would give some concrete details as to what us PC-owning plebs are missing out on.

WHY will we never look back after getting a Mac?

Martin.

Martin,

Just two examples:

1. The day I bought my MacBook Pro, I also bought a Samsung NetBook. When I booted the NetBook, it required 35 High Priority updates to Windows. … Since then, I can honestly say that it has spent more time doing Updates than any useful work.
2. The Hibernate/Resume process on the NetBook is excruciatingly slow. But, on the Mac, I close the lid to stop working and open it again to resume … the response is almost instantaneous.

I can't say what you are missing out on, because I don't know your "values".

Equally, I cannot answer your closing question "WHY will we never look back after getting a Mac?", because I doubt you ever will get one.

If your PC does what you want, that's fine.

… Mine make me angry.

MichaelG.

[KWILParticipant @kwil]

I do not honestly believe the statements made that "windows spends more time doing updates than any useful work" A bit OTT I suggest.

PC on XP and laptop on 7. Laptop opens up immediately on reopening the lid, except for the brief security check using a fingerprint.

[blowlampParticipant @blowlamp]

Posted by KWIL on 14/11/2012 10:15:08:

I do not honestly believe the statements made that "windows spends more time doing updates than any useful work" A bit OTT I suggest.

PC on XP and laptop on 7. Laptop opens up immediately on reopening the lid, except for the brief security check using a fingerprint.

Yes, my experience too, KWIL.

The comparison between a MacBook Pro and a Samsung Netbook doesn't seem exactly equal, neither in power or price.

So the concensus from this thread, seems to be that the overwhelming advantage (for a Mac user), of a Mac over a PC, is its infrequent software updates.

I do still wonder how the original poster will be able to download large files such as music, video or 'apps', with such a slow internet connection – I think it's this kind of content that Apple targets for its users.

Martin.

Edited By blowlamp on 14/11/2012 10:52:48

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Posted by KWIL on 14/11/2012 10:15:08:

I do not honestly believe the statements made that "windows spends more time doing updates than any useful work" A bit OTT I suggest.

PC on XP and laptop on 7. Laptop opens up immediately on reopening the lid, except for the brief security check using a fingerprint.

KWIL

Believe what you like !

… If you read my post you will see that you misquote me.

I described the history of one specific machine: I did not generalize about Windows.

MichaelG

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Posted by blowlamp on 14/11/2012 10:51:4

The comparison between a MacBook Pro and a Samsung Netbook doesn't seem exactly equal, neither in power or price.

Again … The only point of comparison that I made was to mention that they were both bought on the same day. The MacBook Pro was almost exactly four times the price of the NetBook.

It has been at least forty times more useful.

This is my final post on the subject.

MichaelG.

[KWILParticipant @kwil]

Thank goodness for that and please do not "shout" in BOLD, I refer to your profile about being ill mannered.

[Cornish JackParticipant @cornishjack]

What an extraordinary amount of 'hot air' over something as simple as personal choice derived from individual experience.

XP SP2 does it for me – and I have NEVER updated any Windows software from 3 … and its predecessors Dos3.2 et al. What is this update enthusiasm? The (expletive deleted) thing works – leave it alone. If it doesn't work, clear it out and re-install – all pretty straightforward.

As for the'Macs are best' brigade … Hmmm, do a google search for Mac help forums (fora?) and see just how many repetitive problems are posted – and help groups??? why would such an intuitive and never goes wrong software NEED a help group??

Oh and yes, I HAVE tried both Mac and Linux (3 different distros) and each is reasonably competent in its own quirky way but my lazy brain will stay with what it knows and works.

Rgds

Bill

[blowlampParticipant @blowlamp]

Posted by Michael Gilligan on 14/11/2012 10:57:52:

Posted by blowlamp on 14/11/2012 10:51:4

The comparison between a MacBook Pro and a Samsung Netbook doesn't seem exactly equal, neither in power or price.

 

Again … The only point of comparison that I made was to mention that they were both bought on the same day. The MacBook Pro was almost exactly four times the price of the NetBook.

It has been at least forty times more useful.

This is my final post on the subject.

MichaelG.

Michael.

You did compare the Hibernate/Resume times between the two systems.

So ok,  but in what way is it forty times more useful?

 

 Martin.

Edited By blowlamp on 14/11/2012 11:25:41

Edited By blowlamp on 14/11/2012 11:50:13

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