Level lathe set up

[HopperParticipant @hopper]

Posted by SteveI on 20/08/2017 18:05:04:…

…

On a side note Last year I scraped in some straightedges. One had been cast over 35 years ago and had been planed and then left in a barn. Others were cast in 2015. Then heat treated with a 24 hour soak starting at a very high temp (can't recall what) and held for 12 hours and then slowly lowered over the last 12 hours. The 35 year old continued to move about as I scraped it. Whereas the heat treated seemed to be stable. Time will tell of course but it does make me wonder what is happening to the castings out in the rain? I am confident only in that they rust and any hard skin gets broken up as a result but can anyone confirm that iron actually de-stresses out in the rain?

Steve

When I served my apprenticeship in a car factory, I seem to recall that iron engine block castings were left outside in the weather for a year, to 'weather' before being machined. There was a big paddock full of racks of thousands of them. I remember being taught at tech college that this was done because the repeated cyclic variations in temperature over time would relieve stresses and let the casting assume its "natural" shape so it would not change after machining. I don't think rain and rust were part of the equation, rather temperature cycles (day vs night, sunny vs cloudy, summer vs winter etc) and time.It;s reasonable to assume, I think, that Chrysler had some knowledge of casting iron engine blocks and then precision machining them.

And I'm pretty sure any layer of rust never penetrated deep enough to remove the hard skin found on cast iron. That layer is usually way deeper than a year's worth of rust. In fact, I think the blocks may have been painted before putting out to weather in order to make clean up easier. Memory is a bit vague on that though. Ah the little grey cells…

Edited By Hopper on 22/08/2017 10:43:05

Edited By Hopper on 22/08/2017 10:47:05

[Niels AbildgaardParticipant @nielsabildgaard33719]

Posted by Michael Gilligan on 22/08/2017 08:53:16:

In the early 1980s, Cranfield deveoped Granitan [effectively a reconstituted granite], and there are plenty of documented examples of its use … here is just one: **LINK**

Definitely worth a browse, if you're interested in the concept.

MichaelG.

.

P.

The swiss firm of Studer claims to have invented the product in mid seventies.

[Niels AbildgaardParticipant @nielsabildgaard33719]

Posted by Douglas Johnston on 22/08/2017 09:02:51:

I have my Myford Speed 10 lathe mounted on a thick concrete slab. The concrete was cast in its final place on top of a thick bench and the whole set up is very rigid. Granite is probably better than concrete but would be more difficult to handle and transport to the workshop.

Doug

If someone near You has a soft mounted ML10 it will be easy to compare.

Same tool same material etc.

Where are You and do You know another ML10 owner?

I am not sure that granite is better than concrete.

Rigidity of some granite and Diabas is higher than concrete but their damping is much lower.

I do not know wich is the more important.

Only thing is that concree is only fully hardenedd after a couple of weeks.

On the other hand my present ca 100 kg of granite is easily handled by three of my pensioned neighbour ladies(that prefer beer to tea) and myself.

[Niels AbildgaardParticipant @nielsabildgaard33719]

Posted by KWIL on 22/08/2017 10:26:33:

For one of my lathes I built a wooden bench, but below the top surface there is "buried" a 3 foot long piece of 10" x 3" steel channel, this carries the lathe with steel bosses through the wooden top and provides extra mass to stabilise the lathe.

Can we have a picture please?

[duncan webster 1Participant @duncanwebster1]

Concrete Kerb stone would be about right for an ML7, and readily available with a smooth finish

[Niels AbildgaardParticipant @nielsabildgaard33719]

Posted by duncan webster on 22/08/2017 12:15:39:

Concrete Kerb stone would be about right for an ML7, and readily available with a smooth finish

Sure,but do they have wire mesh inside?

Then drilling holes can be a problem.

Edited By Niels Abildgaard on 22/08/2017 12:24:31

[Ex contributorParticipant @mgnbuk]

Sure,but do they have wire mesh inside?

The type made by Marshalls don't have any steel reinforcement, they are just hydraulically pressed. Drilling holes can still be interesting, as pressed concrete blocks are very dense (my house is built from Marshalls Heritage blocks).

Bolting to a granite or concrete block is not dissimilar to the industrial practice of casting a substantial concrete foundation, which some machines need more than others !

Nigel B

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Posted by Niels Abildgaard on 22/08/2017 11:59:52:

Posted by Michael Gilligan on 22/08/2017 08:53:16:

In the early 1980s, Cranfield deveoped Granitan …

The swiss firm of Studer claims to have invented the product in mid seventies.

.

That's interesting, Niels … do you have any links to information ?

… I would like to compare their claims.

MichaelG.

.

P.S. sorry about the typo in my earlier post … "deveoped" should read "developed"

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Studer: **LINK**

https://www.adgrind.co.uk/grinding-machines/fritz-studer/granitan

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

Studer claim 1976:

http://www.irpd.ch/en/about-studer/company/history.html

Seems they own the patent and the trademark, presumably Cranfield were just the first to use it to weigh down hifi turntables… and New Scientist reported that they had developed it. Typical NS sloppy journalism

Neil

 

Edited By Neil Wyatt on 22/08/2017 15:04:59

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Interesting that you should pick-up <groan> on the Turntable article, Neil

… When I had deliberately linked to something more relevant to this thread

I do know, from personal experience, that there was a lot of machine tool related work going on at Cranfield … but I don't know who was funding it.

MichaelG.

.

'ere we go … Fritz Studer's patent:

https://worldwide.espacenet.com/publicationDetails/originalDocument?CC=GB&NR=1556941A&KC=A&FT=D&ND=3&date=19791205&DB=EPODOC&locale=en_EP

Edited By Michael Gilligan on 22/08/2017 15:41:18

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

I gave the turntable article a spin because I found two articles (possibly the second was based on the NS one) taht credited Cranfield with inventing Granitan rather than just using it.

Disc-uss <sorry>

Neil

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

Posted by Neil Wyatt on 22/08/2017 16:56:43:

…

Disc-uss <sorry>

Neil

No-one would dare post a spun worse than that.

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Look out, Neil … I still have my Zerostat pistol

MichaelG.

[Nick HulmeParticipant @nickhulme30114]

Posted by Russell Eberhardt on 16/08/2017 21:05:02:

Posted by Alan Vos on 16/08/2017 20:16:56:

So, is there a method for measuring twist when the bed is not level?

Google "Rolly's Dad's Method" for the simplest method.

Russell

I just use my optical clinometer, that's really simple

[David Standing 1Participant @davidstanding1]

Posted by SillyOldDuffer on 22/08/2017 17:24:36:

Posted by Neil Wyatt on 22/08/2017 16:56:43:

…

Disc-uss <sorry>

Neil

No-one would dare post a spun worse than that.

Dave

It was worse than that, he also had the 'I gave the turntable article a spin' pun in in the first line too!

[David Standing 1Participant @davidstanding1]

Posted by Michael Gilligan on 22/08/2017 18:08:45:

Look out, Neil … I still have my Zerostat pistol

MichaelG.

Now that takes me back!

I had a cleaning brush with bristles, similar looking to a blackboard rubber, I think it was made by Bib; also a Watts Dustbug – remember those Michael?

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Posted by David Standing 1 on 23/08/2017 08:49:49:

… Watts Dustbug – remember those Michael?

.

I do indeed, David … Happy Daze

MichaelG.

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

I have just been digging in my 'archive' and have found some items on Granitan, by 'Cranfield Moulded Structures Limited' and by 'Ciba-Geigy' … if people are genuinely interested, I could scan the lot and perhaps Neil might be persuaded to make them available as a PDF.

For the moment, however, I will just quote the Introduction to Cranfield's little collection of papers:

Synthetic Granite (epoxy concrete) has been very successfully developed over the last six years for high precision machine tool structures by the world famous Swiss Machine Tool Company of Fritz Studer AG. This particular formulation is called Granitan S100. Synthetic granite is used in over 70 of their machines now in operation throughout the world. The new material was developed to provide the best characteristics of conventional structural materials in one new material.

I can't see a date on the leaflets, but the were sent to me on 04-March-1987

MichaelG.

[blowlampParticipant @blowlamp]

I still have my Studer-Revox linear tracking turtable in the loft.

Some of the best Hi-Fi you can buy.

Martin.

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

Posted by Michael Gilligan on 22/08/2017 18:08:45:

Look out, Neil … I still have my Zerostat pistol

MichaelG.

I always wondered how they knew exactly what charge to put in to neutralise the static without simply adding a reversed charge

I still trust in my carbon-fibre anti-static dust brush – or would if my turntable was wired up

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

Posted by Michael Gilligan on 23/08/2017 15:56:02:

if people are genuinely interested, I could scan the lot and perhaps Neil might be persuaded to make them available as a PDF.

For the moment, however, I will just quote the Introduction to Cranfield's little collection of papers:.

If there's the interest.

Neil

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

Posted by blowlamp on 23/08/2017 18:13:56:

Some of the best Hi-Fi you can buy.

In a similar (though less up-market) situation, I fear the truth is the best hifi is the one you actually listen too…

Neil

[blowlampParticipant @blowlamp]

Posted by Neil Wyatt on 23/08/2017 19:12:44:

Posted by blowlamp on 23/08/2017 18:13:56:

Some of the best Hi-Fi you can buy.

In a similar (though less up-market) situation, I fear the truth is the best hifi is the one you actually listen too…

Neil

It used to get listened to all the time. Unfortunately, the whole system got put up there 'temporarily' when the speaker cones started to part company – for the second time – at their joins with the flexible surrounds due to failure of the adhesive, after being replaced foc once before by Celestion.

Martin.

[duncan webster 1Participant @duncanwebster1]

A few Xmases ago I got the turntable down from the attic with the intention to listen to our old LPs. Hiss, Crackle, Horrible. We forget how much better modern stuff is, and don't start me on valve amplifiers! They only sound better because we got used to the distortion.

I sold the deck, anybody want to buy a big box of LPs?

Edited By duncan webster on 23/08/2017 20:38:13

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