“It” comes to life again

[Dean da SilvaParticipant @deandasilva59410]

I have gotten rather tired of trying to do the locomotives from the short build series that Curly has done- they require a lot of very careful planning and drafting to give them a proper appearance, so I decided to draw something that has a very thorough build series with a lot of parts that don't require such guess work. I'll elaborate on that in a moment.

This is the result of finishing the first part of "It's" build series.
If you figure out what "It's" real name is, don't ruin it. In fact, don't even give into the the urge to type such foul words out.

This locomotive is an atrocity, one so foul that I have actually debated trying to give it a face lift after I finish drafting "it" in it's original repulsive form. Curly was ashamed of it, I think I can correct this horror into something at least a little more pleasing to look at.

So, Curly has three types of locomotive articles.

The first type is the very thorough, long serial build type.
The second is the short type, like Pixie. Two issues worth of writing total.
The third type is the "fill in the blanks" sort, like the rescaling articles for Pansy (which will result in me having to draw that locomotive, thankfully I really, really, really love those Pannier tanks) which Curly did.

I am so burned out on the second and third types of articles right now I had to do something that was a little more brainless and relaxing lest I go completely off the deep end.

The first rendering was finished yesterday, the next one is today's results.

[Dean da SilvaParticipant @deandasilva59410]

Call the exorcist, I dare not use “It’s” name.

[Dean da SilvaParticipant @deandasilva59410]

What unspeakable horrors did our hero Curly endure to have been forced to allow this thing to become part of his legacy?
"It" certainly is ungainly, curiously like Zoe it represents one of the later "lost" locomotive designs Curly developed.
Why Zoe did not catch on I have no idea. Why "it" didn't catch on is all too obvious. Some people say that a child has a face that only a mother could love, I think in the case of "it", even Curly didn't particularly care of this creature.

Even more troubling is that "it" did bear fruit that I shall draft once "it" has been completed. We shall simply refer to that as the "second specimen".

I really do like all of Curly's work, but I would have to say that the 40s-50s were probably my favorite eras. Of course, this is also the time period that some of his most timeless designs would come into existence, including the venerable Tich, Juliet, Britannia, Virginia, et al. Pansy too, which is one of my favorite locomotives.

[RedsetterParticipant @redsetter]

Dean,

I take it that is Ivy Hall?

Be very careful not to falsify history. Do you have any hard evidence that Curly was ashamed of it?

Many of his designs displayed updated or modified features, he was quite keen on that sort of thing.

I see that you have placed the horns on the outside of the frame. I suggest you check that detail.

Hollingsworth's biography contains a number of errors and contrary to what he states, several Ivy Halls have been built and they have been pictured in ME from time to time.

Please do your research properly.

[Dean da SilvaParticipant @deandasilva59410]

Red,

I make mistakes, I am typically pretty good about correcting them. I'm also fully aware of the fact that stating Curly probably wasn't a fan of this locomotive is an opinion/speculation. Not a fact. I'm also not writing a novel here, I'm drafting miniature locomotives and giving some commentary.

But regarding your opinion sir, after your bit about what I should and should not build I could not be any less interested in it.

I do what I want to do, which includes this project. I have no incentive to spend all of the time and money I have preserving Curly's work other than I want to. Clearly, it must mean more to me than it does to you-all I have seen you do is harangue on nuance.

[Dean da SilvaParticipant @deandasilva59410]

Point blank: 

I don't mind someone saying I did something wrong. 
I mind people telling me what I should and should not do with my time. I mind people throwing their two pence in on this project who have done literally nothing to help me with it at all. 

 

Edited By Dean da Silva on 18/12/2017 05:52:24

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Posted by Dean da Silva on 18/12/2017 05:38:27:

Point blank:

I don't mind someone saying I did something wrong.
I mind people telling me what I should and should not do with my time.

.

Well said, Dean

MichaelG

[Dean da SilvaParticipant @deandasilva59410]

I do want to apologize if I sound crabby.
Life has thrown me a few speed bumps lately. 

 

 

Edited By Dean da Silva on 18/12/2017 06:04:14

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

I fear Redsetter has got hold of the wrong end of the stick.

• CAD isn't being used to devalue real builders, nor is Dean pushing CAD as an alternative hobby. It's just a tool.
• Dean isn't looking for data to attack LBSC's reputation or to discomfit LBSC supporters. Rather he's exploring LBSC's designs in detail because he admires LBSC. His overall understanding of the genre is evidenced from LBSC's published work, not Dean's personal opinion. Dean's approach is objective; he's not a Fanboy and he's not a Troll.

Slightly more controversial is the resulting interpretation of what LBSC was about. My perception from reading ME articles and letters is that the quality of LBSC's published work varies considerably. Dean's far more rigorous analysis of LBSC plans shows the same. I still think LBSC was a great man.

Lack of hard evidence forces one to speculate about the causes. Laziness, illness, and working against the clock to earn a crust are possibilities. But it's also possible LBSC left out details for creditable reasons. Sketching out new ideas for exploration is one. Choosing not to bore experienced readers by repeating detail covered earlier, or covering ways and means well-known at the time, is another. Unfortunately, half a century later, the ambiguities, gaps and uncorrected mistakes leave beginners awkwardly placed. If Dean can resolve any of them, he makes it more likely that building LBSC designs will carry on when we are all dead. I think that's a good thing.

May I ask Redsetter to support Dean's work by providing input rather than telling him to 'do your research properly'. For example, if Redsetter knows several Ivy Halls were built contrary to Hollingsworth please provide the references. It might be possible to find if they were built exactly to the 'words and music' or if they had to be modified to overcome design issues. Likewise, if anyone knows of plans that were later updated and modified by LBSC, please identify them. Dean can only work from what he has, and he's made it clear that he will fix shortcomings.

Dave

[geoff walker 1Participant @geoffwalker1]

I do want to apologize if I sound crabby.

Life has thrown me a few speed bumps lately.

You don't sound crabby to me Dean, very focused and committed maybe but not crabby, I find your work fascinating,I really do and I know from experience how difficult it it is to master the techniques that you are using with such apparent ease.

Speed bumps? We call 'em sleeping policemen this side of the pond.

best wishes geoff

[Dean da SilvaParticipant @deandasilva59410]

Most cardinal point that I must, must remind people of:

I'm doing this because I want to. For free. I'm not a writer (my writing is terrible) I'm a draftsman. I have no incentive, obligation or reason to do this other than I want to. I'm also certainly not obligated to post in forums about my progress either.

I don't live in the UK, I've never even been to the UK. If someone told me that there were gobs and gobs of Ivy Halls over there I would have to take their word for it. Likewise, if this was a better received design why can I not find prints for it? Is someone holding out on me?

I would literally jump for joy for prints for Bass/Miss Therm!

[MWParticipant @mw27036]

Dean,

Bit of a long shot, but if you made scale drawings of the 1950's Fairburn locomotive, you would be my hero. It's ghastly, ungainly, some people love it, others hate it, but it was one of the last steam engines to roll off the line for regular use (was quite common on the brighton line).

I've googled quite a few times and can't find any drawings for a model engineer to use,

Michael W

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Michael, I fear Dean is only able to redraw existing designs and not produce drawings for a working scale model of a prototype.

[Brian GParticipant @briang]

For those of us (such as myself) whose only knowledge of Ivy Hall comes from "His Life and Locomotives" these links showing a complete "Ivy Hall" **LINK** and one in progress **LINK** might be enlightening, or at least make it easier to follow the conversation.

Brian

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

And one built to half size. There is also mention of another but I don't have that mag to look at.

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

A bit of background, this is the loco LBSC was 'required' to design for ME (by 'Vulcan?&#39 in preference to the loco he wanted to. previously he had either chosen his subject for himself or written about a model commissioned by someone from him.

It led to his leaving ME until (IIRC) Martin Evans ate enough earth to get him back.

Neil

[Jeff DaymanParticipant @jeffdayman43397]

Dean you have a PM.

[Dean da SilvaParticipant @deandasilva59410]

For some reason this locomotive is growing on me a little. I still would rather have Lifford (Lickham) Hall as a project, but I think that I was a bit quick to judge Ivy Hall as some horrid monster. I think that the locomotive which could offer some design pointers to it to clean up its appearance but still retain the BR look to it would be Britannia.
Naturally I would still draft Ivy in its original form, it's just a thought.

Seeing the name Lickham Hall did crack me up a little bit, because instead of reading it as simply Lickham as one word in a state of semi-comical musing it came across as LICK-HAM which totally made me appreciate the name Lifford more.

British names can be… interesting at times for the uninitiated.

I have started on giving Ivy some wheels.
The other bits from the third instalment of this locomotive will follow!

[Dean da SilvaParticipant @deandasilva59410]

Posted by JasonB on 18/12/2017 13:06:42:

And one built to half size. There is also mention of another but I don't have that mag to look at.

This is beyond incredible.
I can't even imagine the effort that went into this locomotive.

[Dean da SilvaParticipant @deandasilva59410]

Posted by Michael-w on 18/12/2017 12:37:21:

Dean,

Bit of a long shot, but if you made scale drawings of the 1950's Fairburn locomotive, you would be my hero. It's ghastly, ungainly, some people love it, others hate it, but it was one of the last steam engines to roll off the line for regular use (was quite common on the brighton line).

I've googled quite a few times and can't find any drawings for a model engineer to use,

Michael W

Michael,

I am still very green when it comes to designing a locomotive based off of prototypical drawings. It's certainly one worth considering though!
It's worth mentioning that I have a particular penchant for SAR locomotives, the dream project for me is a GMAM in miniature.

For what it's worth there is a very small traction engine that I really like that has been called homely by several model engineers I know. For some reason I like it, and regardless of what others think. After all, it's you that is building it for your enjoyment!

[Brian GParticipant @briang]

Posted by Dean da Silva on 19/12/2017 05:18:07:

…Seeing the name Lickham Hall did crack me up a little bit, because instead of reading it as simply Lickham as one word in a state of semi-comical musing it came across as LICK-HAM which totally made me appreciate the name Lifford more.

British names can be… interesting at times for the uninitiated…

I guess you don't drop your 'aitches Dean Try saying "Lickham Hall" it in a Sarf Lun'n accent as "Lick 'em all" (beat them all).

Brian

[Dean da SilvaParticipant @deandasilva59410]

Tonight I am not drafting, but I did want to leave a positive note about Sarik Hobbies.

When I first found out that they had the X-List drawings of Curly's designs it piqued my interest, however since I couldn't find much information about them I was a bit skeptical at first.
I ordered a couple of the drawings for the lost designs from them, and lo and behold, I have three sets of drawings now for locomotives I thought lost! Thank you so much Sarik Hobbies!

[Dean da SilvaParticipant @deandasilva59410]

Here's Ivy now, I've given her some wheels and rods. I'll do the bogie and other fixings soon, I'm not going to rush this stuff anymore like I have.
If I'm not careful I'll have to start wearing maternity pants to safely house this spare stone I might have gained from so much drafting! 

Edited By Dean da Silva on 20/12/2017 20:57:40

[Dean da SilvaParticipant @deandasilva59410]

You know what happens when a model engineer picks his nose?
He finds bogies!

Bad joke, all the same here's the bogie for this monster.
I'll be doing the cylinders and buffers all in one swipe tomorrow.
My hunch is when it comes time for Ivy Junior that I'll be mashing elements from Dot into the whole equation, still, I think that it will turn out nicely. 
I admit I am kind of excited to do a "same model, multiple scales" draft sometime, I think it could lead to some awesome renders. 

I did read through Britannia, and I think that the front end parts (probably with out the spam can sides) would help give this critter a face lift. In a sense, it really does remind me of an incomplete Britannia as a ten wheeler instead of a pacific. Perhaps that might be the treatment the doctor ordered? 

Edited By Dean da Silva on 21/12/2017 04:03:32

Edited By Dean da Silva on 21/12/2017 04:13:28

[Dean da SilvaParticipant @deandasilva59410]

I'm not going to say much about this thing- except that these cylinders are going to be the death of me.

At least I am pretty sure.
Through it all though I am actually very pleased with my decision to draft this locomotive, it's the most complex locomotive I'll have drafted to date.
I really hope I can either find drawings for the Duchess of Swindon or how it is made from other designs- it would be really fun to draw.

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