If you had 2 hours in the Science Museum

[Sub MandrelParticipant @submandrel]

I have to go to London tomorrow – Boo!

But I have time to get to the Science Museum for 2-3 hours.

I want to see the Castle and the rmains of Rocket, but wahat else should I look out for on a lightening visit? (I'd quite like to see a Napier Sealion if they hav one of those).

Neil

[Sub MandrelParticipant @submandrel]

What would you go and see

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Anything by Whitworth

or Maudslay

… conveniently, both are included in a current exhibit.

MichaelG.

Edited By Michael Gilligan on 07/10/2012 19:46:32

[martin perman 1Participant @martinperman1]

Neil,

If it was me I would walk through the museum from top to bottom and take in everything so that you can plan a proper return visit in the future. In the time you have I think you will see very little in detail.

When very little my Grandfather took me to town to go to the museum in his own taxi, unfortunately I woudnt go in but when he got me in his next problem was getting me back out again

Martin P

[JAParticipant @ja]

Michael's suggestion of machine tools is worthwhile but I believe the block making machinery has returned to Portsmouth. From distant memories the clock gallery was excellent.

What is worth visiting is the Science Museum store at Wroughton, near Swindon, but it is closed at present. Twenty five years or so ago they used to have open days but now they don't seem to welcome visitors at all which is a pity since some items, such as large aircraft, cannot be moved elsewhere without great difficulty.

JA

[Martin Walsh 1Participant @martinwalsh1]

When you go in the main enterance you will see the 1903 Burnley Iron Works corliss mill engine

if you are lucky it might be working

The boiler for this engine is under the floor and sometimes they steam it up

its great in this day and age of health and safety this engine still operates on steam

Best Wishes Martin

[Nicholas FarrParticipant @nicholasfarr14254]

Hi Neil, I had a couple of hours or so in the Science Museum back in July, I did post a few photos in my Science Museum album if you haven't already seen them. I did see the Rocket but there was no sign of the Castle. There are however lots of interesting things to look at including Martin's photo of the Corliss mill engine. There is a replica of the Moon landing craft, a big Robert's lathe c. 1816, some Charles Babbage machines, the list can go on.

Whatever you look at, you should find it interesting and enjoy yourself, even a couple of hours is worth it

Regards Nick.

[Cyril BonnettParticipant @cyrilbonnett24790]

I remember walking or cycling with my brother and sister from West Drayton to South Kennsington in the early 60's most weekends during our summer holidays glorious days spent in the museums, my favorite was the science museum followed by the geology, there used to be so much to see and do you could have spent your life there.

[Steve GarnettParticipant @stevegarnett62550]

Posted by JA on 07/10/2012 20:12:42:

What is worth visiting is the Science Museum store at Wroughton, near Swindon, but it is closed at present. Twenty five years or so ago they used to have open days but now they don't seem to welcome visitors at all which is a pity since some items, such as large aircraft, cannot be moved elsewhere without great difficulty.

It's been open more recently than 25 years ago! They had an open day that was widely reported in 2001, but also they had another one more recently when they were trying to attract Lottery funding to make the place publically accessible on a more regular basis; ie a proper museum. It was one of these 'public vote' things, and they were trying to get as much support as possible.

And they didn't win any funding at all. No surprise there…

[TerrydParticipant @terryd72465]

I would back Michael's suggestion. Especially the work by Maudslay. The engines are lovely but Maudslay was on of the most important characters of the early industrial revolution. Innovators and Engineers worked or were trained in his workshops, people such as Whitworth and Marc Brunel (father of Isambard Kingdom) and Joseph Clement (built the Difference Engine for Babbage) and Nasmyth among others. There is a full size model of Babbage's difference engine to wonder at for at least half an hour.

There is a wonderful working model of the Block making workshops he designed and built for the Royal Navy and when I was there last year there were examples of the actual machines to marvel at. Maudslay's lathe is also there and can be handled, it is a wonderful example of precision machinery in an age when there was none of the modern measuring tools we take for granted and moan if they are a hundredth of a mm inaccurate.

James Watts workshop is also worth browsing and gives an understanding of the breathtaking width of his interests and work.

On my last visit for several hours I never got past the Energy Hall.

Best regards and enjoy your visit

Terry

Edited By Terryd on 08/10/2012 08:54:23

[John Stevenson 1Participant @johnstevenson1]

I went in January this year and was sadly disapointed.

Stay on the ground floor, the rest is all about future technolgy [ in a MUSEUM ?? ]

Top floor is put over to about 5 big workstations holding one computer each where kids can take quizzes, total waste of space

The staff was unhelpful and didn't know the exhibits.

I wanted to see the Babbages Difference engine, walked round, couldn't find it and asked at the front desk where it was, they did a computer search and told me they had Babbages brain in a glass jar on level 3

So at least they do have one brain between them.

I won't be going back as i remember as it was a museum with loads of exhibits all over and not enough floor space for a football match. What is it with 'modern' musuems that they have to show current technology off in a big room with posters on 4 walls and an emply floor ?

John S.

[Trevor WrightParticipant @trevorwright62541]

Went many times as a child and the place was vast, went again 6-7 years ago and it was a shell of it's former self.

The Rocket was there (but it is not yellow) as it is the original, and Babbage was at the side, only found it by glancing sideways when reading about the Rocket.

The ground floor is the best part of the museum, I was really disappointed with the rest. I know the old musuem was a real rabbit warren but there were thousands of exhibits, including the Kitty Hawk and Logie Bairds first camera, where are they now?

[joegibParticipant @joegib]

Posted by Trevor Wright on 08/10/2012 12:46:30:

Went many times as a child and the place was vast, went again 6-7 years ago and it was a shell of it's former self.

Agreed. As a Londoner I've seen the evolution of the museum over 50 years. True, in the early decades it was a bit of a rabbits warren but treasures abounded. A large part of the ground floor was given over to scores of model locos, most of whose motion could be activated via handwheels or pressbuttons.

In the 1980s the museum was extended/refurbished and for a while was wonderful! There was a massive new gallery on the ground floor and the display of Caerphilly Castle and the Deltic formed the centrepiece. Moreover, there was a gallery dedicated to machine tools on the first floor. This contained a full historical sequence running from primitive wood lathes through 18thC rose and ornamental lathes, Brunel's blockmaking machinery, engine lathes and other machine tools by the great 19thC builders and more modern screwcutting automatics. The culmination was a Triumph 2000 donated by Colchester — shows how long ago this was! Quite often when visiting, the Triumph was partitioned off with a white-coated 'technician' using it in earnest. It probably represented their most modern machine tool. Years later I saw the guy on TV when the construction of Babbage's engine was being publicised. Apart from machine tools there were interesting displays of other artifacts — Whitworth's early surface plates and micrometers I remember in particular.

Much of this has been lost to storage or other museums, or scattered haphazardly through other galleries. These are themed historically rather than functionally so that a Maudslay's triangular bed lathe appears in a display case with a mishmash 18thC ceramics and other artifacts.

I'm afraid the place strikes me nowadays as being like a disco lightshow designed to amuse the kiddies. As others have commented, vast areas are unoccupied or given over to seating areas, eating areas, coffee franchises etc.

Sad.

Joe

[Sub MandrelParticipant @submandrel]

I won't try a review. yes too many bits full of noisy schoolkids. I avoided the basement with a 'google experience'. the higher up you go, the quieter it gets, and the glass lift is eery in its silence but surprisingly non-vertigo inducing.

I was a sad to discover no Caerphilly Castle (as I had a three-rail Dublo Bristol Castle as a teenager).

I couldn't resist reacing out and toughing both 'Rocket' and the S6b.

The perspex screen played havoc with my eyes in the shrine to Watt.

The best thing was the joy of recognising things:

SE5a.

Snow Cat

Lockheed Electra

Engine off a Saturn V

Apollo 10 capsule

Puffing Billy

Watt beam engine with epicyclic drive

Maudsley's table engine

Trevethick's Dredging Engine

Miss England (over the moon to recogise the work of Hubert Scott Paine – and it's got a Napier Lion in it!) but no sign of Miss Great Britain (which I've made an RC model of).

ERNIE

Fordson F

H.S. P1227

Allcock & Brown's Vimy

Herschel's eyepieces (OK I didn't recognise these…)

Snow-cat.

Most amazing exhibit? 1950's Claude Butler racing bike in gleaming silver. It is amazing how mountain bikes have revolutionsed cycling and the rules on road racing bikes have frozen their development back then.

Finally, the scary bit is things from my own life that are now museum exhibits – Stylophone, Dinky Thunderbird 2 etc.

Shame is that it clearly was and is best at being, a museum of technology and the history of scvience, not a 'science museum'. The 'science' bits are just interactive kid fodder. I bet the 'history of cultivation' section is the least visited bit, is clearly ancient and up for the chop – yet it documents the most profound changes in how the human race has made its biggest impact on the planet – cultivating the wildnerness has wrought far greater changes than climate change has brought (so far).

Thought provoking, but sadly unless you know what you are seeing before you go there, I imagine most of it is just under-interpreted confusion with no coherent overall story.

Oh yes, it is also almost impossible to find your way around with maps that ignore changes in levels, minimal signage and meaningless exhibit names – presumably all designed to punish those who don't pay £5 for a programme.

Neil

[The Merry MillerParticipant @themerrymiller]

Neil,

How my old eyes lit up when I saw your mention of the Claude Butler.

I bought my lightweight version in 1953 to cycle to work from Forest Gate to Limehouse every day (most weekends included).

I converted almost every part of it (apart from the frame)

GB brakes, centre-pull.

Maes bends handlebars with extended stem.

Brooks ultra slim leather racing saddle.

27" x 1.25" lightweight wheels with large flange hubs and quick release mechanisms.

Palmer tyres.

Campag double-clanger and derailleur gears.

I really loved that bike and almost cried when I sold it in 1960 for £4 (yes £4) when I bought my first motor bike.

Sorry to digress lads, couldn't help it.

Len. P.

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Neil,

It sounds like you got very good value from the trip; even if the Museum is now little more than a kiddies' play area.

If you are ever in Leiden go here to see how the job should be done.

MichaelG.

[John Stevenson 1Participant @johnstevenson1]

Posted by Stub Mandrel on 09/10/2012 21:31:46:

Watt beam engine with epicyclic drive

Neil

.

Saw that but when i went there was absolutely no description of this and the reason it was done to get by patent infringement.

Had my grandson with me and I remarked that it was that important that it was a turning point in early steam engine development and it was being missed by all the visitors.

John S.

[Ian S CParticipant @iansc]

The epicyclic drive did actually have an accidental advantage, the flywheel rotated at double speed, they by requiring a smaller flywheel to have the same effect as the large flywheel of a cranked engine of the same size.

If they want a Lottery grant, they'll have to pull their socks up, it will have to be open proberbly 6, maybe 7 days a week, and be user friendly, and information readily available, they should be out looking for customers, not just in the UK either. Ian S C

[Sub MandrelParticipant @submandrel]

The level of interpretation is minimal, for most things, with seemingly random exceptions.

I should have mentioned there is still a Colchester lathe, and early CNC machine without even a label on it saying 'lathe'.

Equally teh snazzy screens interpreting watt's workshop fail to say what any of teh devices are, though the two big instruiments are clearly copy 'lathes' – presumably the ones he used for making copies of ghis busts for his friends – note the small bust on the same table as the right had copy device.

Neil

[SpringbokParticipant @springbok]

If I could afford the hotel bill would love to spend a week there. Ah well My pension I am afraid will not stretch to it , think they would let an OAP camp out in a little room !!!

Bob

[John Stevenson 1Participant @johnstevenson1]

Just announced on the BBC web news apge is that they are earmarking 50M for the rememberance of WWI.

Part of that 50M is to revamp the Imperial war Museum.

That's another one gone to the dogs then. Picture of a bayonet, surrounded by wide open spaces.

Sigh.

John S.

[Sub MandrelParticipant @submandrel]

Where is curiosity when you can google anything

Perhaps all is not lost – my daughter enjoyed playing with a couple of connecting leads, a 12V gel battery and some steel wool. The concept that iron can burn really caught her imagination.

Neil

[Nicholas FarrParticipant @nicholasfarr14254]

Posted by Graham Meek on 12/10/2012 14:51:12:

Hello Niel,

I see the significance…………………………………………………………………….

I visited our local museum recently, whilst it was very well done given their limited resources there was little to tell those who were not familiar with life years ago what everything was. Whilst telling my Grandson about the Mangle, Dolly Tub, the Range for cooking and the absence of electricity or running water in the house, (yes I knew families like this in my childhood), I began to attract quite a following of younger parents as we continued our tour.

………………………………………………………………………………………………….

Gray,

Hi Gray, exactly why I think my late mother would have said in your own recent thread, washing machine, sewing machine, vacuum cleaner and of course I should have added her gas stove. Both my parents grew up in times when all the these things you were telling your Grandson were common place, even the first washing machine that my mother had was nothing more than a metal tub with a simple agitator, but the Mangle was hand powered, even thought it was fun when I was old enough to be allowed to wind the Mangle for her.

I suppose the correct answer depends on what time period you live in, you own perspective of life and the values that are most important to oneself and family. After all what really is the next best thing since sliced bread?

Regards Nick.

Edited By Nicholas Farr on 12/10/2012 22:15:32

[Sub MandrelParticipant @submandrel]

Nick,

You bring back youthful kitchen memories from the 60s/e early 70s.

I remember the washing machine with its agitator and pulling the clothes out with wooden tongs that had a strangely slimy surface to put them in the spin dryer – which shook itself across the kitchen if you weren't careful. The importance of having the smelly rubber 'web' on top of the clothes and knowing when to stop the spin as the flow of water from the pipesubsided to a trickle.

I remember going to school and looking for ways to casually drop into the conversation that we now had an 'atomic' washing machine!

New world gas cooker witha lighting wand, I remember teh gas man coming and converting us to natural gass!

neil

[TerrydParticipant @terryd72465]

Posted by Graham Meek on 12/10/2012 14:51:12:

Hello Niel,

……………………………..

I visited our local museum recently, whilst it was very well done given their limited resources there was little to tell those who were not familiar with life years ago what everything was. Whilst telling my Grandson about the Mangle, Dolly Tub, the Range for cooking and the absence of electricity or running water in the house, (yes I knew families like this in my childhood), I began to attract quite a following of younger parents as we continued our tour.

……………………….

Gray,

Hi Gray,

That was my family in the early 1950s. the only electricity we had was when the Radio Rediffusion men came along to cable in the wireless. We did have gas lighting but only in the front room and front upstairs bedroom. Admittedly we had a tap over the drain in the scullery (that was all that was in there) and the communal toilet was in a block of four at the other end of the row of 10 houses. Those were the days – not. I think I was happy though, my avatar picture was taken in those days.

Terry

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