If I had a hammer…

[Simon Williams 3Participant @simonwilliams3]

Hi all,

Does anyone know the magic spell for getting the leather insert out of a Thor hammer and then getting the new one to go in (and stay in) the hole? Is it just done with brute force, or is there something more scientific involved?

Does the same abra-cadabra work for a copper insert?

Best rgds to all

Simon

[Simon Williams 3Participant @simonwilliams3]

[not done it yetParticipant @notdoneityet]

Never done one, but I would cut (drill) the centre and reduce the pressure for extraction. Refit would be like corking a bottle – a tapered guide. Some lube may be required and a good soaking for a leather insert. Hot and cold in the right places for metals.  Od is there some form of thread in there?

Edited By not done it yet on 23/11/2016 21:13:26

[Richard S2Participant @richards2]

Can't help with the Thor Hammer, but the one that belonged to my Father since 1939 has threaded bores in both ends, so are screwed in. still original ends. Tapped a few Wing Bolts in during it's life.

[charadamParticipant @charadam]

I have the same challenge no, sod it, it's a problem.

Found this on Practical Machinist. It quotes Thor.

http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/general-archive/how-do-i-replace-rawhide-tips-mallet-79043/

Not good news on the whole.

[not done it yetParticipant @notdoneityet]

From the net on another forum:

The e-mail from Thor is below but I think I may just buy a new hammer!

To replace the faces on these hammers you really need time, tool room facilities, patience and determination.

To put things in perspective, these hammers were designed around 1930, when labour was cheap and changing faces was often an apprentices job in a large tool room where all the necessary facilities were available.

I have attached a scan of an old leaflet which tells how to replace the faces on the copper/rawhide hammer Size 2, but the principles are the same for all sizes.

The text from the leaflet is below:

"You ask the best method of removing and replacing faces. This is not easy but may I advise using as an example a No. 2 Copper Hammer (04-312) with face diameter of 1 ½".

During the manufacturing process faces are placed in the socket of the malleable iron casting which is oversize by approximately .025" to enable the face to sit firmly. With faces fitted the casting is then put under a 50 ton hydraulic press which swages the malleable iron around the faces, thus ensuring that they are securely fitted. In this operation the socket opening is closed in, and after swaging could be 1 ½", -×005" or -×007".

You may appreciate therefore that it is not easy to replace worn faces and I enclose a simple leaflet giving details of general fitting procedures. Whilst many customers do replace rawhide faces, copper can be particularly difficult for there are grooves in the copper socket into which the copper spreads.

The use of an opening and closing tool is ESSENTIAL to change the copper face and I can send you a drawing of the tool or make one for you. A different tool is needed for each size of hammer and for example the number 2 size is £45.00, although anyone with tool room facilities can easily make one themselves.

Our copper is 99% pure and, being soft, will after considerable use, mushroom over the hammer head and in this state often lasts almost indefinitely.

Many customers find it more economical to use the copper end to destruction and then replace the complete hammer. Some large users use an air/pneumatic chisel to force out the copper face but this can only be done before there is any head distortion.

The time taken to replace copper faces is generally not cost effective.

I hope this brief summary is of assistance."

If you do go the opening and closing tool route, there is a possibility that the casting will crack in the process and only the minimum opening up and closing in of the casting should be applied. This particularly applies to hammers made after about 1990 as we moved from traditional blackheart iron to spherical graphite, which is harder, due to the high environmental cost of annealing the blackheart.

Regards and Best of Luck

Derek Mathers

Thor Hammer Company Limited

Highlands Road

Shirley

Solihull

West Midlands B90 4NJ

ENGLAND

[/i]Back to top

[Simon Williams 3Participant @simonwilliams3]

Well, Crikey! Talk about chapter and verse!

So the situation runs something like this. I can buy the new inserts for about 6 to 8 quid a kick, then I need a 50 tonne press and some fancy tooling to mend my hammer I've had for (conservatively) 40 years and that owes me absolutely nothing. I'm a believer in tradition, but this is a no brainer!

Dare I admit that I've already bought a replacement (for 13 quid plus postage) at this point?

But damned if I wouldn't have a go, with my home made 50 tonne press, just to see if I can!!! I bought the inserts about 30 years ago, never got round to it (not done it yet).

I'll take a photo before and after and see if it works out. If it's not too shabby I'll let you see them!

Heigh ho! Thanks guys for responding.

Simon

[Nicholas FarrParticipant @nicholasfarr14254]

Hi Simon, I actually made the tools that not done it yet has referred too, from drawings and instructions from the Thor website, **LINK** . They didn't take all that much making, but you do need a couple of lumps of good steel, one about 50mm dia. and one about 60mm dia. and both 40 to 50mm long for a No. 2 size hammer. I didn't go to the trouble of hardening and tempering them as per instructions, as I don't think it is needed for the few times they may be used.

When I used the tool to swage the opening out, the opening just fractured and some of it broke off completely before it opened big enough to get the new hind in. This doesn't mean that this will happen on every hammer though. I have been thinking of a way to fit a new piece to the hammer to solve my problem, but haven't found any spare time to do that so far.

The copper ones are not worth the effort to replace, but they can be used until they are thrashed to the death.

Regards Nick.

Edited By Nicholas Farr on 23/11/2016 23:55:58

[Simon Williams 3Participant @simonwilliams3]

Hey Thanks Nicholas, I've downloaded the info from Thor as per your link, now I KNOW it's a lost cause.

But the other thing that comes out of this is that the instructions from Thor say make the "combination tool" from BDMS then harden to 58 – 60 Rockwell C. B****dy funny mild steel!

I have another cunning plan, which I'll have a play with over the next few days. If it's worthy of notice I'll upload the results.

Again, thanks for responding

Simon

[John OlsenParticipant @johnolsen79199]

Ok, for the one where the casting broke, would it be feasible to make a simple mould around it and cast in a lead insert? Lead is better than copper for a soft face hammer anyway.

John

[paul rushmerParticipant @paulrushmer83015]

Many years a go I replaced the rawhide and copper on a larger one (2 1/4inch), the old heads were removed by drilling and chiselling the recesses were debured the raw hide was encouraged in by tapping round the edge with a blunt chisel and squeezing in the vice. The copper was turned to a tight fit, the first time you really hit it hard it swells and locks in. I also hand carved a new handle from a ash log!

Hope this helps

Paul

[Chris Evans 6Participant @chrisevans6]

When I was an apprentice in a Brummie tool room the millwrights (remember them ?) used to refurbish the Thor mallets when they where short of maintenance work. For my use now I just buy new mallets, mainly the size "A" for around £9 these last many years for tapping things true on the lathe/mill down on to parallels etc.

[Martin KyteParticipant @martinkyte99762]

Two comments.

1. Maybe lifespan could be usefully measured in copper and hide hammers. Maybe about 5. Friend of mine says he wears out a wheelbarrow every 20 years so a Thor hammer would be about 4/5ths of a wheelbarrow.

2. Life is too short for mending the things.

:0)

Martin

[JourneymanParticipant @journeyman]

Shades of Trigger's Broom:- "This old broom has had 17 new heads and 14 new handles in it's time!" (Only Fools and Horses 1996)
I think I would just buy a new hammer…

John

Edited By Journeyman on 24/11/2016 09:34:08

Edited By Journeyman on 24/11/2016 09:37:30

[Ian S CParticipant @iansc]

Or Grandpa's axe, its all original, only had a couple of new heads, and half a dozen handles.

Ian S C

[Russell EberhardtParticipant @russelleberhardt48058]

No problem getting the old hide face out here. The low humidity causes the hide to shrink and fall out. I've tried soaking it in water and it's fine for a while but soon shrinks again. I've resorted to using polyurethane adhesive.

Russell.

[Simon Williams 3Participant @simonwilliams3]

Well, I liked John Olsen's suggestion of casting a lead insert in situ, rather than the complicated plan I'd thought of to machine the socket out to avoid stretching the casting. So Here's a picture of the state of the poor old hammer, which prompted my initial post

The tatty hide end came out by following the instructions from Thor – drill a hole in it and unwind the leather. Easy Peasy. I resorted to amateur dentistry to extract the copper insert. If I'd realised what thickness of copper still covered the cast iron I wouldn't have bothered.

[Simon Williams 3Participant @simonwilliams3]

Here's a picture of the lead casting cooling – this is the second one.

And here's a picture of the finished article

Was it worth all that commotion – never in a million years. But I enjoyed it!

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

> The tatty hide end came out by following the instructions from Thor – drill a hole in it and unwind the leather.

Reknowned hammer expert

Neil

[Jon GibbsParticipant @jongibbs59756]

Posted by Simon Williams 3 on 25/11/2016 13:04:45:

Was it worth all that commotion – never in a million years. But I enjoyed it!

That ticks all of the necessary boxes for a good ME project then

[BazyleParticipant @bazyle]

As mentioned by Russell humidity is important with leather. Try binding the leather blank with wire to stop it unwinding then leave it on top of the hot water tank for a week or two to dry out and shrink. Fit and expand with water.

This used to be well known when shoes were real leather not plastic and the Westerns showed the badie wrapping the hero in wet hide and leaving him in the sun to be constricted to death. That bit probably gets edited out of the DVD now.

Another alternative note that it is actually LDPE softening point 174C not HDPE.

Edited By Bazyle on 25/11/2016 16:12:07

[Speedy Builder5Participant @speedybuilder5]

Simon, you could have used a Heinz Baked Bean can to melt the lead in, but be careful you don't burn your fingers when you pour the lead.
BobH

[Simon Williams 3Participant @simonwilliams3]

I looked in the cupboard, but we were fresh out of baked beans….

Seriously, I guess you spotted my home made "crucible", made out of a few bits of 5 mm thick m/s plate. Yes, it's a bit overkill, but that's what I had in stock. It was also ready cut up (nearly) to size, which is why it's the size it is, and a quick zip round wiith the MIG and I've got a pot I trust to stay solid while heated to 400 degC or so. I managed to stop myself wasting another evening making a pair of crucible tongs!

It's better fun than watching evening TV

Thanks for your interest

Simon

 

Edited By Simon Williams 3 on 25/11/2016 19:19:38

[Kenneth DeightonParticipant @kennethdeighton43272]

When my Thor hammer eventually fell apart I cut off the flanges and made it into a Lump hammer and bought a new Thor.

[Author]

Posts