How long to build?

[RevStewParticipant @revstew]

I'm probably jumping ahead of myself as I'm still latheless, but It's good to know that machining from stock is an option. As for spending time on jobs, I think I'm fairly good at that. I try to do something every time I go in my work room. I could have bought a set of laser cut ribs for my Vic Smeed Tomboy last night, but soon whizzed 20 off in 10 minutes. I often find thought that with building a complete project, in my case a model aircraft, the old 80% done, 80% still to do, comes into it. Its the little finishing bits that take the time, and make all the difference. Covering with tissue especially. A bad covering can make even the best build look like a sack o' cack. I would guess the same would go with the final coat of paint on a loco.

[Philip RoweParticipant @philiprowe13116]

When I started my Rob Roy in 1979 I thought it would be interesting to see how long I took to build it, so I religiously recorded the time each time I went into my workshop and again when I left. After about 50 hours I got fed up with that when I came across a mains powered hours run meter. Great I thought, just turn on the power to it when I start work and switch off when I finish. Course you can guess what happened, inevitably forgot to switch it on or even more annoyingly switch it off. In five months time that will be forty years and it's still not quite finished.

However, in my defence I have nearly finished building a 3 1/2" Spencer and constructed a garden railway with all the associated infrastructure that goes with it and of course all those other annoying interruptions that life continues to throw at you.

Phil

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

Posted by Neil Wyatt on 21/08/2018 16:45:57:

My daughter made me watch a brief 'TED' video yesterday.

…

It's very easy to spend lots of time planning a job, deciding the best order to make things in etc. etc.

…

So when you are in the workshop with half an hour or an hour to spare, don't sit there wondering the best way to set up a big complex job, just get one of the little ones out of the way.

Now, I just have to put my own advice into practice.

Neil

Some concepts from Software Engineering may be relevant. First came the idea of 'Design Patterns', which outline good ways of solutioneering with a proven track record – 'best practice'. It was then realised that there are also 'Anti-patterns', that is ways of doing things, usually common sense, that have negative outcomes.

Neil's example is 'Paralysis by Analysis', where spending too much time planning and worrying about details stops all progress. But it doesn't mean planning is a bad thing because there are many other anti-patterns like over-engineering and gold-plating.

Don't put the Cart Before the Horse in your Bicycle Shed because you might end up with a Big Ball of Mud. In this world Worse is Better.

Dave

PS Re RevStew's 'how long does it take' question. Technology sometimes bites back. I mounted a vice on my milling table this afternoon. Easy enough except the vice is set an exact right angle to the head by tapping it into alignment with a mallet and checking the result with a DTI. Normally takes me 5-10 minutes to zero in. Today, 40 minutes of industrial language and it's still not spot on…

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

Posted by SillyOldDuffer on 21/08/2018 18:26:30:

Posted by Neil Wyatt on 21/08/2018 16:45:57:

My daughter made me watch a brief 'TED' video yesterday.

Some concepts from Software Engineering may be relevant.

That's the theme of the book that accompanies the video…

Neil

[Jon LawesParticipant @jonlawes51698]

I've taken a guess at between 2 and 7 years to finish my 3.5 gauge loco, but thats because its a complex one for a beginner, my free time varies as my other hobbies are seasonal (rallying for example) and I've no idea how I'm going to cope or how often I'm going to get frustrated and walk away for a fortnight!

[Brian GParticipant @briang]

Posted by RevStew on 21/08/2018 17:31:15:

I'm probably jumping ahead of myself as I'm still latheless, but It's good to know that machining from stock is an option…

We are sticking with 16mm scale for the moment as there are plenty of designs intended to be built without any castings (see here for a couple **LINK**&nbsp. That way any failures only cost us the barstock and time. A paperweight made from a poorly soldered 16mm boiler is a lot cheaper than a doorstop from a 5" gauge one too.

There are often incomplete projects on a certain auction site which are a cheap source of castings. We have picked up a couple ready for when we are more confident not to do damage, each a set of wheels and frames and a near complete casting set (with bronze cylinders) for less than the new price of a set of cast iron cylinder castings – even if we threw away the completed parts we would be in profit. Buying ahead can save a fortune, there is more than enough to see my time out in the queue already, but this has also given us the chance to get cheap drawing sets and build manuals tucked away ready.

Brian

[larry phelan 1Participant @larryphelan1]

If I ever had any ideas about building a loco, this post puts paid to it !!!

After 25 years,how the hell do you remember what it was that you started out to build ?

My span is about 2 days,and not always that !!

[Anonymous]

Posted by SillyOldDuffer on 21/08/2018 18:26:30

Normally takes me 5-10 minutes to zero in. Today, 40 minutes of industrial language and it's still not spot on…

Good grief, that's what I call staying power, if it takes me more than a couple of minutes I get niggled and if it reaches 5 minutes I lose interest and go and do something else. What sort of accuracy are you aiming for? I'm happy with one division (0.01mm) on the DTI over 150mm for most normal work.

Andrew

[RevStewParticipant @revstew]

I was strongly considering the Ayesha. I have no pretensions to finishing it inside a decade, and it would be a project to be mostly done at a model engineering club, under a certain amount of supervision I hope, perhaps with smaller tasks being done at home in between. A kind of 'We've done this tonight, but do this little bit at home and see how you get on. bring it back next week' sort of deal is what I would love to have happen!

In my model aircraft building hobby, I've never been shy of scrapping a sometimes nearly completed model, just because it's not up to the standard I have in my head. I used to be ruthless, but then I managed to buy a few free flight models that had been built by some of the real big guns in the hobby, and it was very enlightening. It was one of the best things I did to improve my own building. I could then look and see what the 'expert's had done, and to be honest, it wasn't all that! I wasn't as far off as I thought. But then that was just the building, those guys can fly, pick thermals, and compete too…a different game altogether…

Stew.

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

Posted by Andrew Johnston on 21/08/2018 19:34:09:

Posted by SillyOldDuffer on 21/08/2018 18:26:30

Normally takes me 5-10 minutes to zero in. Today, 40 minutes of industrial language and it's still not spot on…

…

What sort of accuracy are you aiming for? I'm happy with one division (0.01mm) on the DTI over 150mm for most normal work.

Nothing special, less demanding than you – 0.01mm over 90mm. Set-up conventional with the vice initially aligned roughly with a set-square:

I'm wondering if the problem is to do with the size of the studs and washers?

The studs are close fit to the slot in the vice, and the 'washer' is more like a thick spacer. Possibly the stud tilts when the vice is tapped & wedges. The adjustment problem was the DTI would move as expected up to a point and then misbehave, forcing me to start again.

All suggestions welcome!

Dave

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Posted by SillyOldDuffer on 21/08/2018 20:07:40:

I'm wondering if the problem is to do with the size of the studs and washers?

The studs are close fit to the slot in the vice, and the 'washer' is more like a thick spacer. Possibly the stud tilts when the vice is tapped & wedges. The adjustment problem was the DTI would move as expected up to a point and then misbehave, forcing me to start again.

All suggestions welcome!

Dave

.

Not exactly sure what's going-on there, Dave … but there's a nasty burr on the edge of that slot.

I would spot-face the casting, and make some larger diameter [thick and flat] washers … with a  D shape if necessary.

MichaelG.

Edited By Michael Gilligan on 21/08/2018 20:29:16

[Anonymous]

I'll set up my vice tomorrow and take some pictures of the sequence.

Andrew

[duncan webster 1Participant @duncanwebster1]

nip one side down to give a bit of friction and leave the other slack. Then it will rotate around the first. I normally get mine within a couple of minutes, but there agin 0.01 mm is 4 tenths, do you really need it that good?

[David WassonParticipant @davidwasson11489]

More than anything else, building a live steam locomotive is an exercise in time management. During the first three years of construction, I averaged 2 hours in my shop, every day, working on the locomotive. Some days more hours, and some days none. But, on average, it has been 2 hours every day. I started waking up 1 hour earlier than normal so I could get in an hour of locomotive work, before heading off to my real job.

I started making the frames in June of 2015. The chassis first ran on compressed air in February of 2016. So, about 9 months to get it running on air, or about 540 hours.

The first steam test to the chassis was in April of 2016. The steam was supplied by a small boiler that I use to run my stationary steam engines. In order to get the chassis ready for live steam, there were a few things that had to be done in addition to what needed to be done for operating on air. Some of the additional things were the installation of the lubricator pump and the cylinder drain valves.

 

It was in May of 2017 that the locomotive was officially steam certified and operating with it's own boiler at the Finger Lakes Live Steamers track in Western New York. About 23 months, or, about 1400 hours from start, to operating on it's own boiler.

 

I have been running the locomotive since May of 2017 even though it was, and is, far from finished. After I got it running on it's own boiler, most of the work has been getting the water tanks, plate work and many little details finished.

 

The locomotive is nearly complete mechanically. I hope to paint the locomotive during the winter of 2018-2019. Currently, I have about 2000 hours into the build. This is actually the sort of number of hours that has been quoted to me by several people. If this were a particularly detailed locomotive, I think that number could go much higher. Also, if you have no experience with machine tools, the number will be much higher.

I plan to not work so much on the locomotive this year (2018) and do more of running it on my club track, working out any remaining bugs, and visiting a few other tracks. More fun, less work!

 

Building a steam locomotive was not my objective, just a necessary evil if I was to ever own and operate one. I also wanted to be able to answer honestly, "yes" to anyone that asked me, "did you build this loco" and "did you build the boiler?"

 

Here's a link to my website that has a few tips on getting your loco in steam as quickly as possible. (Assuming you are like me and would rather be operating your loco rather than building it!)

**LINK**

 

 

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