FLORID SCRIPT

[John Stevenson 1Participant @johnstevenson1]

Chas, yes your message did get thru and I replied on PM but I’ll also email you direct.

When I said hand engraved I meant the pattern, assuming they were cast in but a steel punch would probably do the job better.

[HopperParticipant @hopper]

So what bike is it going on? Got pics of teh bike?

[HopperParticipant @hopper]

They probably didn't bother to register it as a trademark in those days. Nobody in China was making knock-off parts in 1910.

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Posted by Hopper on 05/09/2016 01:56:07:

They probably didn't bother to register it as a trademark in those days.

.

… The word "misrepresentation" springs to mind … although I haven't checked the legislation of the time.

MichaelG.

[John Stevenson 1Participant @johnstevenson1]

Gordon Bennett Michael it was 19 ought plonk,
Get a life

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Posted by John Stevenson on 05/09/2016 13:37:38:

Gordon Bennett Michael it was 19 ought plonk,
Get a life

.

Simply responding to Hopper's "didn't bother" comment.

… If they claimed it as a Trade Mark, I'm pretty sure they should have registered it as a Trade Mark.

No, I don't really care a jot about it … It was just conversation.

MichaelG.

.

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

Posted by Hopper on 05/09/2016 01:56:07:

They probably didn't bother to register it as a trademark in those days. Nobody in China was making knock-off parts in 1910.

Best not to look too closely at some of our own efforts, like this example:

William Booth, a notorious forger, worked in Perry Barr, Birmingham. Using the manufacture of copper tokens as a cover, he began to produce forgeries of silver coins. He openly sent his base metal to Birmingham to be rolled to the required thickness. Eventually his activities attracted the attention of the authorities and he was arrested, convicted of forgery and hanged.

Hanging offences apart, Birmingham was famous across the world for producing imitations.

In the early sixties I was fortunate to live in Malta for a few years. The number of Maltese momentos that were actually 'Made in England' for the tourist trade was a family joke.

Later on 'Made in Hong Kong' swept a lot of the British tat away, and they also had a reputation for counterfeits. This was when Hong Kong was a British Crown Colony.

I don't see Chinese industry as being much different from anyone else's. They are just the latest in a long succession of countries to industrialise. Some of it is very good and some of it is very bad, most of it uses the same tooling and techniques as everyone else, except the kit they use is likely to be more modern simply because their economy is developing.

What I think of Chinese policy in respect of Tibet, Human Rights, and island grabbing etc. is best left unsaid.

Dave

[John Stevenson 1Participant @johnstevenson1]

Well Chas emailed the logo through and it’s definitely proprietary but good news it it will scan and clean up fine once I can get back onto my desktop machine.

Once it’s cleaned up be a Simples job to mill two plates up in brass ( one a mirror image for LH side ).

Chas can then adopt these for his lost wax pattern and get them cast.

Another happy punter and no armchairs were harmed in this exercise.

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Posted by John Stevenson on 05/09/2016 17:31:33:
Well Chas emailed the logo through and it's definitely proprietary

.

John,

That comment ^^^ makes me wonder if you mis-understood my remark about "misrepresentation".

My point was simply that if B&B claimed 'Trade Mark' status for their logo, but didn't actually register it; they [not you, or Chas] might be guilty of misrepresentation.

The "upside" to that thought being that; if they did register it, we may yet manage to find the official version.

… Please don't waste time replying to this; I just wanted to clarify.

MichaelG.

[John Stevenson 1Participant @johnstevenson1]

OK Michael understood now where you are coming from but two things spring to mind.

What happens if the printed logo differs from what the work could actually produce given the equipment of the time ?

Not the first time it has happened, the Indian Chief logo is very stylised, however the actual badges lack a lot of detail.

Second is I'm only interested in practical results, I derive no satisfaction from the theory.

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Posted by Michael Gilligan on 03/09/2016 07:26:38:

Posted by Hopper on 03/09/2016 06:39:33:

To replicate the part correctly, it should be modelled on an original part, not print advertisements.

.

Of course it should

MichaelG.

.

John,

Just to show that I agree with your approach ^^^

MichaelG

[CHARLES lipscombeParticipant @charleslipscombe16059]

Hi Hopper! As you can see I got the photo uploadedI'm busy at the moment but will post bike photos soon

Regards, Chas

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

Here's a nice (Mid 19th century) example of a trade mark stamped into brass and ink-stamped onto the dial of the same instrument. Both very similar but not identical.

Neil

[John Stevenson 1Participant @johnstevenson1]

Whilst both are right Neil, the purists in the vintage world and they are as bad if not worse than Muddle Engineers will only accept the original on the part no matter how different it is to printed matter.

It's a given fact nowadays that any vehicle entered into a concours competition is far superior to how it left the factory.

In those days sales and getting stuff out the door meant more than polish.

[Fowlers FuryParticipant @fowlersfury]

No doubt of little help, but to return to the OP's request……

The key word to search on is "Retro" fonts.

Here's a link to a huge collection, all free. I've d/l several in the past. You'll need to wade thro' screen after screen but some are close to maybe what you're looking for such as "Penshurst" on this page:-

**LINK**

[HopperParticipant @hopper]

Posted by John Stevenson on 09/09/2016 08:58:48:

It's a given fact nowadays that any vehicle entered into a concours competition is far superior to how it left the factory.

True dat. There are also more of them than ever left the factory in some instances, Manxes, Triumph Hurricanes, Ducati 900SS (bevel) and blown BMW racers for example.

Thanks to the over-restorers and the fakers, it's becoming the original-paint unrestored survivors that bring the top money these days, bikes that show an honest lifetime of use and abuse.

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

You can pay someone to do this to your nice new guitar:

I'm sure there are folks out there 'ageing' cars and bikes and not just wearing the sides of the tyres for cautious bikers.

Neil

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Posted by Neil Wyatt on 09/09/2016 14:28:36:

You can pay someone to do this to your nice new guitar:

.

Now that is distressing … In both senses.

MichaelG,

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

Posted by Michael Gilligan on 09/09/2016 15:43:49:

Now that is distressing … In both senses.

MichaelG,

I find it a bit baffling, OK there's some kudos ina 'replica' of Joe Strummer's guitar (which is what that is supposed to be) but I want any knocks and patina on my instruments to be the result of my own carelessness & abuse.

Neil

[Mike PooleParticipant @mikepoole82104]

I think Rory Gallaghers Strat must be the ultimate distressed guitar, Fender even issued a replica, why I don't know but I did take a trip to Harrods for a close look at the original even though I saw Rory play it at a few gigs.

Mike

[HopperParticipant @hopper]

Yes they are doing exactly that to bikes, taking new bikes and making them look old. Even Harley-Davidson has a "faded denim" paint scheme. And sanding the paint on a new bike down to the bare metal, leaving it out in the rain to rust up a bit then covering it all in clear coat is a "thing" in the custom bike scene today. It's all about authenticity. Once you can fake that, you have it made – in hipster circles anyway.

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Posted by Hopper on 10/09/2016 02:01:47:

It's all about authenticity. Once you can fake that, you have it made – in hipster circles anyway.

.

Ah … 'faking authenticity'

… That puts the moron into oxymoron.

MichaelG.

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

Posted by Michael Poole on 09/09/2016 21:19:09:

I think Rory Gallaghers Strat must be the ultimate distressed guitar, Fender even issued a replica, why I don't know but I did take a trip to Harrods for a close look at the original even though I saw Rory play it at a few gigs.

Mike

I saw him in 1981 or 2. He was brilliant.

Neil

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

Posted by Michael Poole on 09/09/2016 21:19:09:

I think Rory Gallaghers Strat must be the ultimate distressed guitar, Fender even issued a replica, why I don't know but I did take a trip to Harrods for a close look at the original even though I saw Rory play it at a few gigs.

Mike

I saw him in 1981 or 2. He was brilliant.

> … That puts the moron into oxymoron.

Neil

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

Actually that reminds me – my daughter can't grasp the idea that in the 70s we used to wear our jeans until they got holes in rather than buying them ready-holed. I suspect she can't believe anyone would wear an item of clothing often enough for that to happen.

Neil

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