English dialect

[John HaineParticipant @johnhaine32865]

Ah, the nostalgia! Chocolate/sulphur dioxide smog catching the back of your throat walking down to Brum University, autumn mornings in 1968. Came from Bournville and Longbridge I expect, trapped in a temperature inversion.

[Sam Longley 1Participant @samlongley1]

The first time I sailed round UK I stopped at Peterhead. I wanted to find a supermarket which is a long walk from the marina.

The first 3 groups I asked for directions were Polish !!! & could not tell me.

Then I came to a bearded chap & asked the way & he replied in a broad accent & I said " at last English" meaning English speaking

I thought he was going to slaughter me. He went into a tirade about being Scottish & wanted nothing to do with the sassenachs & would not give me directions until I explained & apologised profusely.

I never got round to explaining that I was from clan Graham on my mother's side in case they were still at war

[Sam Longley 1Participant @samlongley1]

My mother was born & raised in Berwick on Tweed but moved to Essex when she married. As a result her accent changed. However, whenever we went back to Berwick, after a few days it was really noticeable how her old accent & phrases, which she never used in Essex, came back as she spoke to the locals.

[Mike PooleParticipant @mikepoole82104]

A friend of mine born in Rotherham but lived in Oxford since he was a youngster and had no obvious Yorkshire accent. He would phone his mother every evening when we were at work and unconsciously use his Yorkshire accent, he said he didn't realise he was doing it.

Mike

[martin perman 1Participant @martinperman1]

I was brought up in South London, Selhurst, when I was thirteen my Father got a job in Bury St Edmunds and the Family moved to the town, it wasn't long before the children picked up the accent of the locals and I eventually married a Suffolk girl and we moved to Bedfordshire. My wifes Suffolk accent has slowly disappeared but we still occasionally use Suffolk words in conversation.

Martin P

[SamsarandaParticipant @samsaranda]

When my grandfather retired from a high pressure job in London during the 50’s he decided to move back to my grandmothers roots in North Wales where he bought a small holding and raised turkeys. It was an idyllic place on the side of a mountain complete with woods and a stream, an ideal playground for a young boy, however I digress, when one day my mother and I went to the local village and went into the village shop, as we entered the atmosphere changed and the conversation that had previously been in English suddenly changed to Welsh. Eventually it was established that we were relatives of my Welsh grandmother and the conversation returned to English and the atmosphere became more relaxed. I remember struggling to understand what was being said because the Welsh accents were so strong, strange how communities were so insular and excluded “foreigners” if they could.

Dave W

[MikeParticipant @mike89748]

George Clarihew is right: the area around Burghead is also known as "The Broch". In the circles in which I moved before I retired, Aberchirder was always known as "Foggieloan", or just "Foggy". And in the North-east Scottish tradition, George must be known as "Dod."

Edited By Mike on 18/04/2018 10:17:45

[Gordon WParticipant @gordonw]

Strange, I've just got back from Cumminstown with a new MOT. Don't get going about Fougie, or however it's spelt or pronounced. At long last I have found why a dyke is a ditch in England and a wall in the north, it is derived from Viking and just means "boundary". A few years ago we were at the Welsh two day trial, in one pub all were speaking Welsh, including the Polish barman. No probs tho' ,very friendly.

[duncan webster 1Participant @duncanwebster1]

Posted by Samsaranda on 18/04/2018 09:30:29:

When my grandfather retired from a high pressure job in London during the 50’s he decided to move back to my grandmothers roots in North Wales where he bought a small holding and raised turkeys. It was an idyllic place on the side of a mountain complete with woods and a stream, an ideal playground for a young boy, however I digress, when one day my mother and I went to the local village and went into the village shop, as we entered the atmosphere changed and the conversation that had previously been in English suddenly changed to Welsh. Eventually it was established that we were relatives of my Welsh grandmother and the conversation returned to English and the atmosphere became more relaxed. I remember struggling to understand what was being said because the Welsh accents were so strong, strange how communities were so insular and excluded “foreigners” if they could.

Dave W

I worked in Welsh speaking North Wales for a good few years. As long as I started off by apologising for not speaking Welsh I met absolutely no hostility, in fact they were quite friendly. When I went to play with the local brass band they swapped to English so I could understand, and I have absolutely no Welsh ancestry.

[Ken Humphries 1Participant @kenhumphries1]

Gordon W. – your "dyke" or "ditch" is also known by yet another name in some parts. Either side of the Bristol channel, there is an area of flat agricultural lands known as the Somerset Levels and the Caldicot Levels. In these parts, they are called "reens".

[MikeParticipant @mike89748]

As a Lincolnshire lad (a Yellowbelly" I got caught out over the two definitions of the word "dyke" when I first visited Scotland in the early 1950s, so thanks to Gordon for pointing out that "dyke" means boundary. In the house where I first stayed in Scotland I was told that there was a thing called a "lade" at the end of the garden. I was a bit disappointed to discover it was just a mill stream. Later, in the early 1960s, when I spent a couple of years wandering about in the bush in Rhodesia and Mozambique, I was told that, if Africans didn't understand my English, to try English with a Scots accent. This was a widely-held belief among Europeans. I never had to put it to the test, but it shows just how far in the world Scots influence has spread.

 

Edited By Mike on 18/04/2018 15:53:46

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

I got called by a reader this morning., He didn't have an accent so I correctly guessed he was from my part of South Wales.

Neil

[Mick B1Participant @mickb1]

Posted by Mike on 18/04/2018 15:52:17:

As a Lincolnshire lad (a Yellowbelly" I got caught out over the two definitions of the word "dyke" when I first visited Scotland in the early 1950s, so thanks to Gordon for pointing out that "dyke" means boundary.

…

Edited By Mike on 18/04/2018 15:53:46

I've got relatives near Boston, and according to them 'dyke' is a verb.

It means running a vehicle into one o' them huge roadside drainage ditches that abound in that county – especially for 'tired' drivers after a night on the town at the bend on the end of a long straight… >

[Dod MoleParticipant @georgeclarihew]

Posted by Mike on 18/04/2018 10:16:12:

George Clarihew is right: the area around Burghead is also known as "The Broch". In the circles in which I moved before I retired, Aberchirder was always known as "Foggieloan", or just "Foggy". And in the North-east Scottish tradition, George must be known as "Dod."

Edited By Mike on 18/04/2018 10:17:45

Spot on Mike, Foggieloan,

by Turra, nowhere near Auchterturra , explain that one

 

Was known here as Dod till compooter took over and lost me so was set up as me is now

Edited By George Clarihew on 18/04/2018 19:55:43

[brickyParticipant @bricky]

I too am from Lincolnshire and whilst visiting Northern Ireland in the late seventies I went to a pub and I felt a bit worried and was cautious about exposing my English accent.I needn't have worried as our dialect and accent must be a drawl as they thought I was Canadian and I did not enlighten them.

Frank

[Dod MoleParticipant @georgeclarihew]

Posted by Gordon W on 18/04/2018 10:45:20:

Strange, I've just got back from Cumminstown with a new MOT. Don't get going about Fougie, or however it's spelt or pronounced. At long last I have found why a dyke is a ditch in England and a wall in the north, it is derived from Viking and just means "boundary". A few years ago we were at the Welsh two day trial, in one pub all were speaking Welsh, including the Polish barman. No probs tho' ,very friendly.

Min you wan bin in the Cumineston by Turra, – the Collach (Cummingston) by the Broch, not the FraserBroch, disnae hae a MOT placie.

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

Posted by bricky on 18/04/2018 19:57:07:

I too am from Lincolnshire and whilst visiting Northern Ireland in the late seventies I went to a pub and I felt a bit worried and was cautious about exposing my English accent.I needn't have worried as our dialect and accent must be a drawl as they thought I was Canadian and I did not enlighten them.

Frank

I had a meeting with a Canadian chap today who is fed up of everyone thinking he is Irish.

http://www.quora.com/Why-do-some-Canadian-accents-sound-similar-to-Irish-accents

Neil

Edited By Neil Wyatt on 18/04/2018 20:55:40

[MeunierParticipant @meunier]

Posted by Mike on 18/04/2018 15:52:17:

In the house where I first stayed in Scotland I was told that there was a thing called a "lade" at the end of the garden. I was a bit disappointed to discover it was just a mill stream.

Edited By Mike on 18/04/2018 15:53:46

Mike, that lade isn't that far off a mill leat.
DaveD

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

The Cadoxton reens mentioned earlier are related to 'rhine'

"from Middle High German Rin, ultimately from Gaulish Renos, literally "that which flows," from PIE root *reie- "to move, flow, run" (cf. Sanskrit rinati "causes to flow," ritih "stream, course;" Latin rivus "stream;" Old Church Slavonic reka "river;" Middle Irish rian "river, way;" Gothic rinnan "run, flow," rinno "brook;" Middle Low German ride "brook;" Old English riþ "stream;" Old English rinnan, Old Norse rinna "to run," Dutch ril "running stream&quot. The spelling with -h- (cf. Latin Rhenus ; French Rhin) is from influence of the Greek form of the name, Rhenos. "

[Ken Humphries 1Participant @kenhumphries1]

Neil Wyatt – Interesting discourse on the origin of "reens". You may be correct, but there is a glaring "contradiction" that jumps out at me. All of the origins you site refer to "that which flows", in one form or another, and that "flowing" is a natural action of Nature. The "reens" I mentioned in the Somerset and Caldicot Levels, all contain NON RUNNING water, and act as drainage ditches to the agricultural land. The only time that water flowed out of them was when sluice gates are opened to release water into the Bristol Channel, which is seldom.

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

To be a drainage ditch there has to be some movement, even if it's sluggish, and the water can move fast when there's a lot of rain.

An awful lot of UK drainage was made by Dutch engineers, even in the middle ages, it may be they brought the word over.

[MikeParticipant @mike89748]

I should have known this: my favourite drain for fishing in Lincolnshire was the Vernatts, named after the Dutch engineer who built it. And the division of Lincolnshire in which I lived was Holland County. So thanks for the reminder, Neil.

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

Posted by Ken Humphries 1 on 18/04/2018 22:38:00:

… The "reens" I mentioned in the Somerset and Caldicot Levels, all contain NON RUNNING water, and act as drainage ditches to the agricultural land. The only time that water flowed out of them was when sluice gates are opened to release water into the Bristol Channel, which is seldom.

 

More to the ditches in these schemes than just drainage.

The area was once a salt-marsh refreshed with new sea-water every high-tide. Not good for crops!

To recover the land, stage one is to build a dyke fitted with sluices to keep the sea out.

Stage 2 is to open and close the sluices against the tide. Closed as the tide rises and opened to drain brackish water off the land at low tide. The area gradually loses salt and becomes rich agricultural land. At that point the sluices are managed to control wetness rather than to remove salt. In modern times the basic process is much expedited with pumps, originally windmills, then steam, now electric and largely automatic. So water in the Somerset Levels is moving, but perhaps not very much

It all looks rather benign and safe but Mother Nature occasionally bites back. The whole area is vulnerable to flooding; heavy rain, a spring-tide, and a storm-surge might combine and overcome the defences. Not a good idea to build houses there!

Dave

 

Edited By SillyOldDuffer on 19/04/2018 10:40:11

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bristol_Channel_floods,_1607

Oddly, I've just finished a piece of work with one of the chaps who wrote a paper cited in the article which advances storm surge over tsunami.

Neil

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

Quite fun to find 'tsunami' in a thread about English dialect! Especially as reading Neil's Bristol Channel Flood link took me to 'Meteotsunami', a valid English word with Greek and Japanese roots.

My Scots father-in-law was much into Doric, and wasn't amused when I said Doric was so named by the English from the Greek word for 'primitive'. He replied by saying I have smelly oxters…

Dave

Edit: can't spell

Edited By SillyOldDuffer on 19/04/2018 11:37:00

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