Corrosive liquids. ……………………………..

[vintagengineerParticipant @vintagengineer]

Let's get out of the EU and bring back the Birch! That will stop the buggers!

[Andrew EvansParticipant @andrewevans67134]

Yes, and bring back National Service and hanging, which is too good for them. If we had thrown acid in my day the local copper would given us a clip round the ear and we certainly wouldn’t have done it again. You can’t touch em nowadays, it’s all elf and safety and human rights.

[Andrew EvansParticipant @andrewevans67134]

HF is bad, if that got thrown on someone they would probably be dead. It’s used in Geology to dissolve silica based rock to extract organic material. Skin is no barrier to it and it passes through to attack bones and internal organs. Breathing HF fumes can result in your lungs filling with liquid and you drown. I used it a lot and you had to have an emergency shower system installed in the event of a spillage and only use it in a fume cupboard. Floors had to be specially sealed to prevent any leaks to floors below.

[HopperParticipant @hopper]

More people are killed by water than acid. Will they ban water too?

[MWParticipant @mw27036]

Posted by Hopper on 16/07/2017 07:17:10:

More people are killed by water than acid. Will they ban water too?

It's a lot harder to wield as a weapon though.

Michael W

[PeroParticipant @pero]

Hopper

Sounds like I had better practice my beer drinking just in case ….

What worries me more is that they may ban acetic acid (aka vinegar) on my fish and chips.

The problem with all these regulations and bans is that they only impact on the law abiding. The problem of illegal use of guns, acids, etc, etc. is that they are used by people who never intended to obey the rules in the first place and who seem to find no difficulty in obtaining their requirements.

Perhaps following the recent incidents a ban on mopeds might also be considered.

Personally I prefer the thought of extreme punishment of those using guns etc. for offensive purposes rather than those using them appropriately.

While the death penalty may not be the ultimate deterrent it certainly does curtail the number of repeat offences!

Should I be saying this on a Sunday?

Pero

[Jon GibbsParticipant @jongibbs59756]

I hesitate to put an opposite point of view here but some regulation is necessary and does work.

Take gun control. We have some of the toughest gun controls anywhere, and I know the complete ban on pistols is OTT, but the upside is that our home grown Islamist terrorists have only been able to use vehicles and wield knives in their attacks – thankfully. In countries where semi and automatic weapons are more available (e.g. Paris Bataclan and Charlie Hebdo), the death toll in similar attacks has been much higher.

Would it really do much harm to have corrosive products under lock and key and sell them to over 18's with ID only?

I also think that corrosive liquids in squirt bottles should be reclassified as offensive weapons and the intent to mutilate and maim needs to be taken more seriously in sentencing.

Jon

[MikeParticipant @mike89748]

As far as I'm concerned, Pero, you can say it on any day you like because it is undeniable fact. Vintageengineer has a good idea, too. Plenty of birch trees around here – give me a small, sharp axe and I could equip the nation's courts. Not so sure about National Service, but only because the nation couldn't afford it. If things continue the way they are going, thanks to knee-jerk reactions by politicians, we shan't be able to put vinegar on our chips, unblock the drains, clean the patio, or use many other useful household products – and that's before we start thinking about what we might use in the workshop.

Already, paint stripper hardly works, and paint is generally thin, watery stuff, Oh, I could go on for ever, but I guess I've had by grumpy ten minutes for today………….

[Clive IndiaParticipant @cliveindia]

Have no fear folks, Diane Abbot that well-known purveyor of common sense, was on the telly telling us all acids should be restricted to builders etc. While there is such a good understanding of the issues – our future is in good hands.

By the way, I think she could be the new Doctor Who.

[MikeParticipant @mike89748]

Perhaps we should confiscate the acid in Diane Abbot's car battery, it being so dangerous? I wonder how she'd get on then!

[the artfull-codgerParticipant @theartfull-codger]

We used H F acid a lot in the glass trade, it's used with other acids & mica for decroative work in the embossing deprtment for the fancy old pub windows & mirrors etc, some beautifull effects are made with it, of course the embossers won't give any secrets of their craft away!! .

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

Tut! I see a few chaps suggesting that severe punishments prevent crime. If only! Actually the biggest deterrent by far is the certainty of getting caught.

Back in the good old days capital punishment was applicable to many minor offences in England. The risk of public execution did not reduce the crime-rate. What did make a big difference was street lighting and professional policing. It also helps to reduce discontent by sharing wealth, power and opportunities.

Suicide attackers will never be put off by the death penalty. Their motives are political and the solution, like much else in life, requires finesse.

The thought of criminals being viciously punished may make us feel better but that's all it achieves. Never forget that for every complex problem there is an answer that is quick, cheap, easy and WRONG!

Dave

Edited By SillyOldDuffer on 16/07/2017 11:27:24

[CirclipParticipant @circlip]

"Actually the biggest deterrent by far is the certainty of getting caught."

What a load of bovine excreta they have NO FEAR of being caught.

Wonder how many would commit whatever if the same action was carried out on them as punishment? Can't do that though, that would mean lowering ourselves to the same obnoxious level.

Regards Ian.

[MWParticipant @mw27036]

The whole idea of crime means that you have a punishment. The two go hand in hand.
If you dont have a punishment theres no point in having crimes. Agreed? So it might not be nice or pretty what then follows but its neccessary. Thats all it comes down to.

If they tried the war criminals of WW2 today. They would not be able to hang them or detain indefinitely like they did in the past. That seems rather odd to me.

Edited By Michael-w on 16/07/2017 12:46:15

[HopperParticipant @hopper]

Posted by Michael-w on 16/07/2017 12:41:02:
The whole idea of crime means that you have a punishment. The two go hand in hand.
If you dont have a punishment theres no point in having crimes. Agreed? So it might not be nice or pretty what then follows but its neccessary. Thats all it comes down to. If they tried the war criminals of WW2 today. They would not be able to hang them or detain indefinitely like they did in the past. That seems rather odd to me.

Edited By Michael-w on 16/07/2017 12:46:15

And yet in Sweden their sentencing is very lenient and their jails are like holiday camps compared with American prisons. Yet Sweden has a far lower crime rate than America.

[Jon GibbsParticipant @jongibbs59756]

Posted by Circlip on 16/07/2017 12:30:33:

What a load of bovine excreta they have NO FEAR of being caught.

…but it has been widely reported that the reason acid is becoming a weapon of choice is precisely to avoid being caught – no DNA and little proof who the attacker is and lighter sentences than carrying and using a knife.

If this is true then there clearly is a fear of being caught IMHO.

Jon

Edited By Jon Gibbs on 16/07/2017 13:00:24

[MWParticipant @mw27036]

Theres also far fewer people in sweden than america i dont think its a good comparison.
The idea that if you remove the penalties from crime that it would just disappear is nonsensical

Edited By Michael-w on 16/07/2017 13:02:59

[HopperParticipant @hopper]

Posted by Michael-w on 16/07/2017 13:00:49:
Theres also far fewer people in sweden than america i dont think its a good comparison. The idea that if you remove the penalties from crime that it would just disappear is nonsensical

Edited By Michael-w on 16/07/2017 13:02:59

I was talking about the crime RATE, not the raw numbers of crimes. Apples and apples.

Nobody is suggesting that penalties be removed, just that beyond a certain point, harsher penalties are not a proven deterrent. They cut theives' hands off in Middle-eastern countries. But there are still thieves.

[HopperParticipant @hopper]

Posted by Michael-w on 16/07/2017 07:37:25:

Posted by Hopper on 16/07/2017 07:17:10:

More people are killed by water than acid. Will they ban water too?

It's a lot harder to wield as a weapon though.

Michael W

It only takes a teaspoon of water to drown someone. (Don't tell them that though. They'll be after banning teaspoons next. )

[HopperParticipant @hopper]

Wow, just read online that there were 450 acid attacks in the past year in London alone. Hadn't realized it was a much bigger issue over there than the latest attack in the news. Kids in schoolyards getting into it and all. With that sort of a widespread problem no doubt there will be some kind of crackdown on it. Then the miscreants will move on to the next thing, whatever that might be. I believe you can distill enough nicotine out of a carton of cigarettes to kill someone in concentrated form. Eventually when everything else is banned they will still be stabbing each other with sharpened sticks, or suffocating each other with cotton wool.

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

Posted by Circlip on 16/07/2017 12:30:33:

"Actually the biggest deterrent by far is the certainty of getting caught."

What a load of bovine excreta they have NO FEAR of being caught.

…

Regards Ian.

Hi Ian,

You've misunderstood my point. I'm saying your car is unlikely to be vandalised whilst a policeman is guarding it because the vandal sees he's probably going to get caught.

Thinking criminals manage the risk of getting caught. They seek easy targets and try to avoid detection, for example by not leaving fingerprints or their names and addresses at the crime scene. In a city, a moped reduces the 'certainty of getting caught' because they're anonymous, can escape through gaps, with the riders disguised in full-face helmets.

Of course anything can happen when mental illness, drugs, anger, stupidty, or politics override common sense. Apart from that very few have NO FEAR of being caught.

Dave

[duncan webster 1Participant @duncanwebster1]

Posted by SillyOldDuffer on 16/07/2017 14:09:45:

Posted by Circlip on 16/07/2017 12:30:33:

"Actually the biggest deterrent by far is the certainty of getting caught."

What a load of bovine excreta they have NO FEAR of being caught.

…

Regards Ian.

Hi Ian,

You've misunderstood my point. I'm saying your car is unlikely to be vandalised whilst a policeman is guarding it because the vandal sees he's probably going to get caught.

Thinking criminals manage the risk of getting caught. They seek easy targets and try to avoid detection, for example by not leaving fingerprints or their names and addresses at the crime scene. In a city, a moped reduces the 'certainty of getting caught' because they're anonymous, can escape through gaps, with the riders disguised in full-face helmets.

Of course anything can happen when mental illness, drugs, anger, stupidty, or politics override common sense. Apart from that very few have NO FEAR of being caught.

Dave

The latest trick is to ride your moped with a balaclava but no helmet. Then it is deemed too dangerous for the miscreant for the police to give chase. However, I do agree with SoD, you used tyo get hung for stealing a loaf of bread, it didn't stop people stealing.

[Phil WhitleyParticipant @philwhitley94135]

In this particular case, the squirter and assistant were using the substance as an aid to mugging and theft, and were caught within a few hours, I think they will be in for long sentences, as there is already talk about a large sentence increase for anyone who uses a corrosive substance to aid the commision of a crime. We are not talking high flying substances here, just bleach and brick acid. They should be given some time to think about what they have done…………………………………ten years seems about right.

[MWParticipant @mw27036]

Posted by duncan webster on 16/07/2017 14:34:23:

 

However, I do agree with SoD, you used tyo get hung for stealing a loaf of bread, it didn't stop people stealing.

Indeed, but the reoffending rate of the day was 0%

extremely cruel, but then how often these arcane laws were actually applied probably isn't as often as the myth portrayed, it was of course much harder to catch people then as well, law was very localized for that matter too. In short, it was just a different world. 

I actually went to an old courthouse in Walsingham, Norfolk. They had a list of penalties, you could get hard labour for stealing a rat trap! why? 

Edited By Michael-w on 16/07/2017 20:03:35

[Ian HewsonParticipant @ianhewson99641]

One youth critical and two others injured running in to the rear of a police car today, knives found at scene, suspected robbery. Suspect they will try to blame police for injuring them.

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