Colchester Student Mk1 Won’t Start

[Herman van der MerweParticipant @hermanvandermerwe76509]

Sorry for the off topic @Richard. I only realised it now!!

[Richard Kirkman 1Participant @richardkirkman1]

First coat of red/orange on the inside. Not original, but it's how I want to do it! It'll be hidden most of the time. I will be painting the lip grey so the orange should be hidden when the cover is installed

Just a very thin coat, but I'll build it up

I've not been very productive since I've been working on finishing the g plan table as the owners need their table back as soon as possible.

[Richard Kirkman 1Participant @richardkirkman1]

2nd thin coat today really brought the colour out! I'll probably leave it there and spray the rest.

Perhaps the lathe needs some racing stripes so it'll go faster…

It's looking so good it's almost a shame its going to be hidden. I'm sure some people out there will disagree, but I like it.

Phil, great video this week. I'll have to test my lathe in a similar fashion once its back together. I'll be interested to see if my spindle bore has any dings like yours. How do you plan to test the tailstock? And, could you have got a mt5 reamer to clean out the spindle bore instead?(Obviously not as cheap as scraping it, very expensive actually, but would it be better?)

[Phil WhitleyParticipant @philwhitley94135]

Hi Richard, Thanks for the nice words re the video, I like the way they are going, what they lack in finesse, they make up for in content!

The Colchester spindle bore is about morse 4.5 if I remember it correctly, so no reamers available. Manufacturers tend to make the bore of the spindle as large as possible in order to accomodate the largest possible diameter through the spindle, thus producing a more versatile machine, the taper size is considered as less important, so they stick in what fits conveniently and produce a bush to reduce it to a morse size, usually the same as the one in the tailstock. The spindle taper is short, and large diameter, easy to mess it up with a reamer! To test the tailstock, I will put my best centre in it, put the test bar in the spincle bush and dicker about with it till I get the least run out I can manage, then I will put the clock gauge on the top of the test bar, and gently wind the centre into the drilled centre in the test bar, and note if the clock goes up or down, and by how much. When I have the height right, put the clock guage on the side of the test bar, and do the same, adjusting the tailstock side to side to get it centred, then check the height again.

Because of the nature of the dings, they tend to have a low spot in the middle, and high metal all around, which picks up the blue very well. With a scraper and a bit of care, it is possible to just remove the blued high area, and leave the rest of the bore untouched. When you have two high areas, they would tend to push the reamer to one side or the other, as you would be very unlikely get the reamer into a position where the dings were both in the flutes, and turning the reamer would remove both high spots simultaeneously., especially in a short large diameter taper. It was very surprising just how little metal needed to be removed from two tiny areas to produce an instant almost perfect fit. I was tempted to use some very fine valve grinding paste to finish off, but I resisted and just used some autobody polishing compound, which produced a lovely matt grey finish. Keep up the good work on the painting!

Phil

[Richard Kirkman 1Participant @richardkirkman1]

I don't have a spindle bush like yours Phil, are they hard to get/find?

You don't need to worry about finesse till you have thousands of subscribers, but that won't be long if you keep the content as good as it is!

New toy arrived this morning, only 4 days late thanks to my favorite royal mail.

It's had a hard life. The listing said it was from the 1950s. It's been snapped in half(or cracked) then welded back together. So I thought I would blend the welds with a bit of filling so it feels a bit nicer to use. I'll probably polish it a bit more and cold blue it later.

It hasn't come with a full set of letters, but I have probably 5 or 6 of ever number. I'll accumulate the letters I'm missing as I need them.

However, after some cleaning, I found that I have enough letters to spell FORWARD, so we're halfway there.

The imprint isn't currently even since there's still rust and crud on all of the letters so they're at slightly different heights. I'll sort that later too.

It's going to look much better than F and R scrappily written in marker pen. Especially when on a nice brass plaque.

The table is very nearly finished, so almost time for some more stripping! (Or possibly back to lawnmower)

[john fletcher 1Participant @johnfletcher1]

Hello Richard, a friend of mine died recently and another friend and me have been clearing his workshop. There is a LOT of measuring equipment and other materials / tooling available in Scarborough. If interested at all, send me a PM with a phone number or email address. John

[Richard Kirkman 1Participant @richardkirkman1]

Posted by john fletcher 1 on 06/07/2020 16:22:21:

Hello Richard, a friend of mine died recently and another friend and me have been clearing his workshop. There is a LOT of measuring equipment and other materials / tooling available in Scarborough. If interested at all, send me a PM with a phone number or email address. John

I've sent you a PM

Thanks

[Donovan KaardalParticipant @donovankaardal43990]

Richard, this has been a great thread to follow. And a rather timely one, as I've just managed to get the time to look over a later model Colchester Student (1.5?) that I'd bought last year.

Mine still won't turn on, but after cleaning some corroded contacts here and there at least now the pump will start when I rotate the dial to the right position. Still nothing from the headstock, but I'll be checking over the wiring based on the diagram that Phil Whitley posted on the 14th of December last year. That should make things much easier to trace and test.

I will say though that the pictures you and others have been posting have been great to see.

Regards,

Donovan.

[Phil WhitleyParticipant @philwhitley94135]

Where in the World are you Donovan?

Phil

[Richard Kirkman 1Participant @richardkirkman1]

Fantastic to hear you've found it of use Donovan. Happy to help with anything.

Phils diagram is very straight forward, possibly look at the key switch at the end of the lathe and the cover switch first. It could be simple. It's always nice to see some pictures of other peoples lathes!

[Donovan KaardalParticipant @donovankaardal43990]

Posted by Phil Whitley on 10/07/2020 21:28:30:

Where in the World are you Donovan?

Phil

Hi Phil – I'm just outside of Newbury here in England.

[Donovan KaardalParticipant @donovankaardal43990]

Posted by Richard Kirkman 1 on 10/07/2020 22:30:03:

Fantastic to hear you've found it of use Donovan. Happy to help with anything.

Phils diagram is very straight forward, possibly look at the key switch at the end of the lathe and the cover switch first. It could be simple. It's always nice to see some pictures of other peoples lathes!

Thanks Richard. The key switch I've got a handle on – the drawers open easily, so I'm assuming that it's unlocked. Just to be sure I pulled the key mechanism apart and checked it over. Open or closed, the motor won't start. I will say my pump motor sounds a lot quieter then the one you had in your video though!

Not sure about the cover switch though. I can't seem to see anything that looks like a switch/button/contact anywhere on the lathe other then the obvious main power on the side and the off/on/on+pump dial on the front.

I'll have to take some pictures of my lathe. Yes, it's a Colchester Student lathe and there are many others like it – but this one is mine.

[Richard Kirkman 1Participant @richardkirkman1]

Just back from a nice trip to Scarborough to meet John/Ted and Brian, and to have a look through the tools available.

It was like Christmas, but much much better! Tools I hadn't even thought of, and tools that the previous owner had made himself, like centre drills on their own taper so you don't have to fiddle around with chucks. Simple idea, but will save time.

Ted and Brian were both very friendly and we chatted a while. I've come away with quite a few goodies. A few things that I was looking out for anyway, so well worth the trip. Popped in to see a friend in Pickering on the way back too.

Brian gave me a tour of his workshop and it was fantastic. He has a nice smart and brown lathe and plenty of stories to go with it. He also showed me what he's been making over the past couple decades. Incredible stuff. I haven't particularly looked into the model engineering side of having a lathe yet, but now I may be interested. Brian was even kind enough to supply me with various bits of steel and aluminium for me to play with.

Back home now and tools all laid out, some fantastic bits of kit

So, a few questions from all these tools.

The micrometers have one pin that's round. What are these used for? They looked too good for me to pass up. Are they for wall thickness measuring or something?

The mag chuck doesn't work properly, are they tricky to fix or would it be a waste of my time?

Does anyone know if there are any companies that make cards similar to that starret tap/drill chart but in a full-blown poster form?

That's all for now. A bit off-topic so I apologize. Hijacking my own thread more than Herman at this point!

Meanwhile, I have a lot of tidying and moving around to do in the garage. New homes for tools are required…

[Richard Kirkman 1Participant @richardkirkman1]

Posted by Donovan Kaardal on 11/07/2020 16:30:53:

Thanks Richard. The key switch I've got a handle on – the drawers open easily, so I'm assuming that it's unlocked. Just to be sure I pulled the key mechanism apart and checked it over. Open or closed, the motor won't start. I will say my pump motor sounds a lot quieter then the one you had in your video though!

Not sure about the cover switch though. I can't seem to see anything that looks like a switch/button/contact anywhere on the lathe other then the obvious main power on the side and the off/on/on+pump dial on the front.

I'll have to take some pictures of my lathe. Yes, it's a Colchester Student lathe and there are many others like it – but this one is mine.

the cover switch is pretty well hidden, but once you've found it you'll never forget it. It just stops the lathe being operated while the cover is off.

What are you running your lathe with? Like the source of the electricity

I've always found that pictures explain the technical things I don't understand better than my words.

This is the cover, there is a switch in the lathe body that gets pushed in by the bolt that pokes out of the cover at the bottom middle part at that lump

[Phil WhitleyParticipant @philwhitley94135]

Wow Richard, what a haul, I will have to look them up when I get out of lockdown again!

Phil.

[Donovan KaardalParticipant @donovankaardal43990]

the cover switch is pretty well hidden, but once you've found it you'll never forget it. It just stops the lathe being operated while the cover is off.

What are you running your lathe with? Like the source of the electricity

I've always found that pictures explain the technical things I don't understand better than my words.

This is the cover, there is a switch in the lathe body that gets pushed in by the bolt that pokes out of the cover at the bottom middle part at that lump

Ahh… I see!

I've tried it with the cover on for the most part, though I'll now double check that switch to make sure it's not damaged or anything.

As for power, I've got a little space in an an industrial park that's half way between my office and my home. It's not much, but it's got 3 phase!

[Richard Kirkman 1Participant @richardkirkman1]

It would be good to see inside the control panel of the lathe Donovan. Interesting to see and would possibly help.

if your pump is only making a very small amount of noise, are you sure it's definitely spinning?

I managed to do some research and find that the micrometers are pipe/tube micrometers for measuring wall thickness. From what I've seen on eBay sold listings, they seem to be pretty rare, so I've been very very lucky

I've got to spend the day gardening, but I'm dying to take the mag chuck to pieces

[Richard Kirkman 1Participant @richardkirkman1]

I managed to have a play with the Mag Chuck. Pictures below through the link. It's not worth putting a full rebuild up in this thread. It's sitting in rust remover overnight, then I'll give it an oil and put it back together tomorrow.

It wasn't working before, the knob at the front wouldn't turn as far as it should, so it needed disassembling.

It may be worth doing a write up of the actual disassembly since I couldn't find anything about these chucks online.

Mag Chuck

(excessively photographed so I can figure out how to put it back together exactly as it came apart)

I also had a look through some books that Brian gave me and I found how to read a protractor vernier. Very handy, I had been wondering since I got my protractor how the vernier scale worked. It's just a normal scale, but instead of it being 0.1mm or 0.1 of a degree it's 1/12th of a degree. Handy? Or even more confusing!

Edited By Richard Kirkman 1 on 12/07/2020 23:53:15

[John OlsenParticipant @johnolsen79199]

1/12 of a degree would be five minutes. (of arc, not of time!) So if you are planning to work in degrees, minutes, and seconds it makes sense, not so much if you would prefer decimal fractions of a degree. I blame the Babylonians myself.

John

[Herman van der MerweParticipant @hermanvandermerwe76509]

There you go @Richard – https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zcZBNckJGoc

Lucky fish, wish I had one.

Get used to working in minutes and seconds. It is real simple actually. You can also work in gradients or radians if you so wish

[Richard Kirkman 1Participant @richardkirkman1]

Interesting video Herman. The chuck I'm taking to pieces has a different mechanism since it has 2 magnets in. So I meant that I couldn't find any videos specifically on that model. They're all very similar anyway

Yeah, the lines do go up in 5s from 0-60 minutes. Giving every 5 being one 12th. I haven't particularly heard of arcseconds and minutes before, but I'm sure I've skimmed past it a couple of times. I thought there was just degrees and radians.

Thanks guys

[Richard Kirkman 1Participant @richardkirkman1]

Mag chuck is all back together and turning smoothly, much better than it not turning at all before. Pics have been updated in the album link I posted yesterday

However, the grab from the chuck is very weak. The bottom one is stronger than the top. I can slide a 6 inch steel rule over the top with hardly any pressure. I'll add some videos to the album linked

How can I make the magnet stronger? Or is it simply past its best?

I found this video, but my mag chuck doesn't come to pieces like that. I think the body is the magnet bit

MAG CHUCK VIDEO

Back to lathe things soon

[Phil WhitleyParticipant @philwhitley94135]

Eclipse do a remagnetising service, magnetic chucks are still the main workholding method for surface grinding.

Phil

[Herman van der MerweParticipant @hermanvandermerwe76509]

Posted by Phil Whitley on 13/07/2020 16:44:27:

Eclipse do a remagnetising service, magnetic chucks are still the main workholding method for surface grinding.

Phil

 

Best advice you will get on this problem. It must have fallen sometime in this space time. Magnets loose their magnetism when the fields in them align with the cosmic North during 2g+ contact with Mother Earth

Or is that the South? Maybe the tri-dimensional warping SSE? If you find out let us know!

Edited By Herman van der Merwe on 13/07/2020 17:35:52

[Donovan KaardalParticipant @donovankaardal43990]

Posted by Richard Kirkman 1 on 12/07/2020 11:08:59:

It would be good to see inside the control panel of the lathe Donovan. Interesting to see and would possibly help.

if your pump is only making a very small amount of noise, are you sure it's definitely spinning?

Hi Richard,

It *sounds* like it's spinning, and when I turn the power off the spinning sounds slows to a stop over the course of 3-5 seconds.

As for the control panel, here it is in all it's glory. I don't have the fuses that you do, but everything else looks about right.

(Here's an album with all the pictures I've taken so far)

[Author]

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