Colchester Student Mk1 Won’t Start

[Phil WhitleyParticipant @philwhitley94135]

NICE!

[Phil WhitleyParticipant @philwhitley94135]

Richard, did you notice(can you remember) that when starting my lathe it would sometimes get a couple of clatters from the contactor before it started proper? Jist been thinking about that, dirty contacts on the intermediate position of the Craig and Derricot limit switch! Can you tell I am bored!!

Phil.

[Richard Kirkman 1Participant @richardkirkman1]

I can't say I remember it making noises?

But cleaning the contacts can't do any harm

I have plenty of other things to get done in the meantime. My table saw fence never cuts straight. the wood attached to the fence isn't flat, putting around a 0.5mm taper on parts, which is an absolute nightmare trying to get things to be consistent and line up nicely. I've taken the wood off, but the metal fence beneath isn't perfect so I'll file it as flat as I can, it can't get any worse. Surface ground is a dream right now, not that the precision is needed one bit!

If you're really bored, I'll send my uni work over to you so I can get on in the garage

[Phil WhitleyParticipant @philwhitley94135]

I am not THAT bored, and probably couldn't do it anyway, maths was not my strength at school and at tech college we were still in the days of slide rules, I was earning about £14 a week and an electronic calculator was about £60!

Do you have a sheet of glass? plate glass is best, or a large polished granite tile. put a flat wad of cloth like a once folded blanket or an old towel on the bench and put the glass on it. mix some fine valve grinding paste with white spirit or wd40 and spread it on the surface, place the fence on it face down and rub to and fro and rotate and repeat, this will soon reveal where the highs and lows are, and you can scrape the highs down and repeat the process till you get good overall contact. Used to use this method for carb flanges and any joints that were not mating up or leaking, most recently used it on the SC box front on the lathe! it was a long way out, hence my suspicion that it was a foreigner!

Phil

[Richard Kirkman 1Participant @richardkirkman1]

No maths in this bit, just doing a lab report on pressure difference in pipes as water flows through bends. Plumbing really, or fluid mechanics supposedly. Not what I really want to be doing

It seems like a great idea for getting things flat, but this fence is very very off. I can alter the taper just fine, but it's lengthways not nicely flat. I'll take a picture to illustrate later, but it just needs filing, to begin with at least

Are there any changes in the SC gearboxes throughout the models of the students? I thought they were all the same for the mk1-1.5 at least?

[Phil WhitleyParticipant @philwhitley94135]

there are no changes to the SC box, but things were individually fitted to machines as they were built up. All the parts would "fit" but some had to be eased to make them fit properly, bit of filing and smoothing here and there.

[Richard Kirkman 1Participant @richardkirkman1]

Traveling steady is looking very orange. It'll hopefully darken a little since it's meant to be red. But it's probably only 6 or so degrees in the garage. So it's not drying very quickly at all still, I don't need it any time soon. I'll just wait before I sand it and put another coat on. Might even bring it in the house to dry

That picture makes it look better than it is. And that still looks rough

Got the inside of the chuck painted too. I think it looks very nice. Perhaps unnecessarily nice. But I like it

As for the table saw fence it's like this

So I've blued it up

Letting that dry then I'll get back to filing it some more

[Phil WhitleyParticipant @philwhitley94135]

I see the problem now, it is pressed metal, not cast, and looks, with the round clamps at either end, like it comes from a very similar sawbench to mine, which is a startright? The fence on mine is missing.

[Richard Kirkman 1Participant @richardkirkman1]

Well it was a lot of filling. But it's a lot flatter than it was

I've just blued it up again, now I've glued a bit of 240 grit paper to a bit of glass so I'm sanding it flatter (hopefully)

It's an old Rockwell 9 inch. Canadian. Not as good quality as startright or however you spell it. But it should do the job when it's aligned properly. It's been causing me problems for a while. Either that or I'm the problem

There's a few low spots, but it's good enough for woodworking

I've brought the chuck and steady inside so hopefully they dry quicker

​​​​​​

[Phil WhitleyParticipant @philwhitley94135]

that looks a hell of a lot better Richard!

[Richard Kirkman 1Participant @richardkirkman1]

Still had some low different low spots when I started to sand, but they cleaned up quite quickly. I didn't bother to get them all. Did 240 then 600 grit. Left it there

All done with that now. Although I still would like to machine it at some point since it's not square to the table either

Converter now says it's out for delivery today! So might be up and running sooner rather than later

[Richard Kirkman 1Participant @richardkirkman1]

Converter didn't arrive, even though it said it was out for delivery. It'll come on Monday

In preparation I fitted the motor properly in location and the belts, fits much better than the old belts and allows for changing of the tension of the belt

the motor plate only has one washer, so that'll be my first project, to make a second

[Richard Kirkman 1Participant @richardkirkman1]

Just did a little cleaning today

Found a hole that I thought was going to be a bolt head or something, but it turned out to be a threaded hole and about 4 inches deep. It's just in the lathe bed. Not sure what it's for? It was full of crap, but I got most of it out

Just showing the depth

Then below there are some holes which I managed to clean a lot of stuff out of

Upside down, but you can see the gunk

Not much progress, but tomorrow should be good if the converter arrives. I'm looking forward to actually do some turning

I think the converter has a 32 amp socket on it, but the lathe has a 16amp plug. Don't know for sure yet, but I'll find out. Might need to change it somehow?

[Phil WhitleyParticipant @philwhitley94135]

That big hole is for the lifting eye, if you take the chuck off, put in the lifting eye, and attach a crane, you lift the entire machine, moving the saddle left and right to get the balance.

[Richard Kirkman 1Participant @richardkirkman1]

Ah yeah how could I forget. I did know that, just slipped my mind

[Richard Kirkman 1Participant @richardkirkman1]

We have a big blue box. As expected we have a 32 amp 415v ket on the end, so can't plug and play. Where can I get a 32 amp plug today? Especially with lockdown

I've swapped the 16amp plug on it for the 32amp one that had left over from the Clarke converter also noticed that the connections from the box seem a bit off, so added a gland to secure it since had one spare. I'd like to fill in the other holes to stop dust getting in

Plugged it in and it seems to turn on just fine. Better than I thought it would. I'm surprised how quiet it is

https://photos.app.goo.gl/VU5hf6xW3RThjGwh6

[Phil WhitleyParticipant @philwhitley94135]

OOOH exitin! Have a ring round your local electrical wholesalers, CEF, Tep, and YESSS! See who, if anyone, is open, all should carry stock of this, very common item. I guess you will have done, but if not, clean the dust out of the inside, especially around the contactors, and keep fingers away from the capacitors, they bite hard even with the power off! If nothing else, tape over the spare holes, you could get a mounted socket and fit it to the box, save having the flying socketThe moment of truth approaches!

Be safe,

Phil.

Oh, and check the earth continuity from the single phase socket to the lathe! Most important!

 

 

Edited By Phil Whitley on 06/04/2020 12:18:04

[Richard Kirkman 1Participant @richardkirkman1]

I'll check continuity later

The socket on the machine is 5 pin 3p+E+N but the converter doesn't have a neutral and neither does the lathe

So, do I get a 4 pin 32 amp socket to fit to the machine and get a 32 amp 4 pin plug to go on the lathe(up from the 16 that's there, although it shouldn't be drawing anywhere near 16amps) Or can do I need to change things around?

I don't know if a 16 amp 415v plug is smaller than a 32 amp one though?

TEP is closed for non-essential customers, they're only open in the mornings and even then it's only for account holders since they can't take card or cash for some reason. the man said he'd sort me out if I got really stuck, but I think I'll just order from Rs and get them tomorrow. I just need to know what I need?

[Phil WhitleyParticipant @philwhitley94135]

I would get a 16a 3pole +earth 4 pin socket, no need at all for a 32A, the only 32a socket I have is for the welders! if you add the FLA on the motor and the pump, I doubt it will come to 10a! 16 anp is smaller than the 32a.

Phil

 

Edited By Phil Whitley on 06/04/2020 12:55:40

[Phil WhitleyParticipant @philwhitley94135]

Make sure you wire an earth from the incoming supply earth in the phase convertor to the output socket earth pin! It does not appear to be earthed at the moment!

[Richard Kirkman 1Participant @richardkirkman1]

Are there any safety advantages of putting a 32 amp plug and socket on instead?

[Phil WhitleyParticipant @philwhitley94135]

NONE! all my 3 phase machines runs on 16A sockets

 

Edited By Phil Whitley on 06/04/2020 13:14:50

[Richard Kirkman 1Participant @richardkirkman1]

I took the motor out and put that spare gland I had on it. It's holding the conduit very well. It's not the stuff that threads in, but it's doing the job

I'll keep the motor out for when the socket arrives tomorrow. So I can just test without a load. I'm pretty happy with the converter so far. Much more satisfying to turn on than the Clarke static one 😄

[Phil WhitleyParticipant @philwhitley94135]

Yup, that gland is fine Richard, just remember that when you try it out, the motor will not be earthed!! put a seperate earth to the motor when testing!

Phil.

[Richard Kirkman 1Participant @richardkirkman1]

Socket arrives around 2.30 so I went straight out and fitted it. Lathe works beautifully. See videos for footage. I did turn it on once or twice and it didn't turn on(see 2.22 in the first linked video), so I presume some contacts need cleaning. Possibly in the c and d switch on the back. There's a clicking noise coming from the lathe too, but that's just where the belts are flexing and hitting the frame, a tiny bit of filling will sort that. I still cannot hear the contactor pulling in like I'd want. See what you think from the video

Video 1. Not start at 2.22

I need to get better at using a lathe now, since I don't really know about feeds and speeds and tooling to get good finishes. Plus parting off with hss just scares me. I always seem to struggle. How are they meant to be ground?

Cutting some steel

The no volt release works, as shown in this video

No volt release test

As I said I would, I made a spacer to go where the missing one was. It was fun to try and get them to be as identical as possible, but was difficult with my available tooling(no boring bar big enough and not a drill bit the right size) still, I managed

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