Chinese Lathe Accessories.

[John Stevenson 1Participant @johnstevenson1]

Then a bit of a gap until post #72

"It's John again with his pile of gear blanks, I imagine that these are an order from Myford, so no wonder you are being disruptive to the thread. It's your bread and butter on the line! Please inform us what tolerances you are working to on the 5/8 bores. i hope it's not the same as the parts that I received! You have not answered the questions that I put to you, Why not? "

Post timed at 4:41 but I was till out but assumption again, no they are not for Myford, I did post Myford COMPATIBLE [ big letters ] just to highlight the fact and it's not my bread and butter on the line. Who are you to demand tolerances.

Not content in not getting an answer you then pick on Ketan in post #75 badgering him for the same answer. He didn't sell you the parts .

By which time in post #76 I managed to belt off a quick reply on my phone saying I was out and this was timed at 5:56

But no in post #80 we get these pearls of wisdom

"John Stevenson is suddenly speechless when confronted with simple questions. I hope that he will reply as he promises, otherwise we can just ignore his posts as hype. Timed at 7:12.

Of course I'm speechless, so you you be belting down the M6 at 80 mph but hey It's Sir Alan who needs an immediate reply to something I have sod all to do with.

In post # 86, by my reckoning that 85 posts later you are still harping on about what other would do when in post #1 you stated you had returned the part and got replacements. Do you like to hear the sound of your own keyboard ?

So finally in post #87 I replied to you at 8:26 after just walking in that I am not at your beck and call.
I am at others but they pay for support services.

Post #93 now getting obnoxious towards Ian
"As I`ve said before, if you have nothing positive to contribute, then don`t bother.
Neil,
You did not answer my question regarding the part not fit for purpose. May I ask are you a lawyer?
The same goes for you. Don`t be a time waster!"

Post #95 now transferred your attention to Ian because he doesn't agree with you.

So this whole post is about assumptions which have proved false in the and remember the thread title, the parts were Indian and not Chinese but hey don't let truth get in the way.

Remember I said remember post # 57 which Ketan made ? Has anyone wondered why Ketan who is Indian, has very good Indian connections both family and business but doesn't deal with the Indian suppliers, instead preferring to deal with China. That has to tell you something.

Neil [ Stub mandrel ] sums it up well in a post just above this when he says that everyone has ben rebuked. Alan isn't interested in answers to questions, he's one of those people who just has to ask them anyway and is not interested in other peoples answers, his mind is made up, but get stroppy when he doesn't get the attention he thinks he deserves.

So Alan you asked me what would I do if I received these parts ?

Well I'm not telling you.

If you were to buy something off me then you would be entitled to an answer.

However that would never arise as I don't have anything to sell you and I dare say many reading this thread whether they have taken part in it or not will also hold the same true.

[alan smith 6Participant @alansmith6]

Neil,

I think that you have got the wrong end of the stick, I suppose it`s because of my inadequate explanation.

The Myford gears have a nominal internal diameter of .625, I don`t have a set of Newall tables in front of me but I would expect that the tolerances on the bore would be around + .0004 to + .0012.

Similarly the tolerances on the stud nominal diameter would be – .0004 to – .0012, that would give clearances of .0008 on the lower limit and .0024 on the upper limits roughly speaking.

This is just out of the top of my head no treatises on limits and fits please.

The diameters of the barrels on the supplied studs varied from – .012 to -.024. that is minus 12 to 24 thou as we say in the trade.

The gears actually wobbled from side to side several degrees when slid onto the studs.

After being assured by the RDC engineer that I would be supplied with the correct diameter studs, The replacements were 3 off plus 4 thou and one off plus 1/4 of a thou.

That is not the whole reason that I`m unhappy with the deal, I was told that the engineer had checked my returned parts and had declared them fit for use. This was a bluff of course, no trained engineer would have said such a thing.

I suppose that reluctantly, I will have to take the easy way out, just like all the rest of you and re-machine the diameters to the correct size.

From the postings it would seem that this is a typical problem with suppliers.

Hope you get the gist this time.

Alan

[alan smith 6Participant @alansmith6]

John,

Thank you for your litany of my false moves and mistakes. I have to say that you have still not answered the questions that I posed. It will only take you a few lines. Tomorrow I will post a list for you so that you can fully answer them at your convenience of course.

Ps The speed limit is 70.

Alan

[KWILParticipant @kwil]

I trust by now that most Forum contributors have elected to use the "Ignore member" button. Good night.

Edited By KWIL on 15/12/2012 23:18:48

[alan smith 6Participant @alansmith6]

Sleep Tight KWIL, don`t forget to press that button.

Alan

[dcostaParticipant @dcosta]

Hello Ketan (and all the others).

I live in Portugal and here I do not have access to most of the products related to the hobby that you can easily find there in England, as you probably know.
Reason why I have purchased from British companies like RDG Tools, Arc Euro Trade and Chronos some thousands of pounds of supplies and tools in the last four years having no reason to complain from any of those companies.

However, lathes and milling machines, for example, it makes no sense to buy them in England, for reasons like support, shipping costs, etc..

So, when I wanted to buy a milling machine, I found a supplier here in Portugal and bought a mill from the Optimum Machines brand. Interestingly, when I searched for information on the source machine I was buying, I was informed that the company Optimum Machines (from Germany), has in China, Yangzhou, facilities dedicated to quality control of the products it purchases in China and knowing this has increased my confidence in the quality of the milling machine that I wanted to buy.
Do you think that this scheme helps to improve, in general, the quality of products that the company sells?
Do you think that this scheme can make a difference to the quality?

After 5 years, I must say I am very happy with the milling machine I bought from Optimum.

If you are interested in confirm the information on the Optimum Machines premises in China, please see ***LINK***.

P.S.:
1 – If some nuisance like the one reported by Alan Smith happened to me, that would be enough to break my trust and therefore I would no longer shop from that company. There are some items that I bought those companies, (e.g.: a collection of 21 ER25 collets), which I have not yet used, and it would be terrible if I found out, when use them first time, they have the wrong dimensions or are not concentric.
There are some people on the forum who only spend money on the hobby.
There are some people who make money and also spend money on the hobby. Perhaps this explains, in some cases, the tolerance for imperfection of the products offered by the market …
2 – I have no connection to the company Optimum.
3 – Please don't say I'm the "odd one" in the forum just because I don't think like you. I'm entitled to that and it doesn't guarantee you that I am wrong.
4 – Please be sympathetic to my poor English.

Best regards
Dias Costa

Edited By dcosta on 15/12/2012 23:51:46

[John Stevenson 1Participant @johnstevenson1]

Posted by alan smith 6 on 15/12/2012 23:17:29:

John,

Thank you for your litany of my false moves and mistakes. I have to say that you have still not answered the questions that I posed. It will only take you a few lines. Tomorrow I will post a list for you so that you can fully answer them at your convenience of course.

Ps The speed limit is 70.

Alan

You selective reading is still not kicking in.

Re read the end of the second post.

I'M NOT TELLING YOU.

[quote] Ps The speed limit is 70 [/quote]

Only uphill.

[jason udallParticipant @jasonudall57142]

Reminds me of another Thread..got a bit "personal".

Informative (inparts) for all that.

I will add. If I buy adigital caliper 2 for £10.I don't expect Moore and Wright performance etc….I might be pleasantly suprised but I don't EXPECT .But when I buy (say) M&W and it's made to no better finish I feel cheated. ( note M&W for example only )..many firms are having goods manufactured inthe "far east" and have been trading off the back of a HARD WON reputation ,pocketed the difference and laughed at the customer..

I don't mind "cheap", when I buy cheap…my fault if too cheap..but I think I am not alone in objecting "to being done"..

What would I have done?

What were the parts sold for?..pin too big..(won't go in ) obviously unfit..

too loose..To who's drawing/ fit? part might be on small end of tol but in. gear might be on large end but in..don't have drawings for either so coudn't judge where the fault lies.

What would I do?..In absense of drawing/standard .first check ALL gear bores..establish.range..decide if bores self-consistant.enough for ANY size pin..to provide required consistancy. If so, use smallest and chose appropiate fit..

Now having nominal size decide on tolerence you wish to pay for.

To para phrase MadMax.."Precision is just a question of money How close can you go"

personally .."err these don't fit…OK Sir refund or replace?" Even think distance selling law gives you this "right" without fault.

Enough

'Night All

[NJHParticipant @njh]

I agree Clive

Alan your beef is with the supplier of what you maintain are faulty goods. Your course is to get them to resolve the issue and, if they do not, to persue further with the regulatory authorities. You don't need to persuade others here of the rightness of your case and you don't need their support to back up your claims.

I've followed this site from the beginning and in all that time I've not before come across such a bad tempered thread. Worse now we are getting into offensive and racist comment.

TIME TO STOP!!

Norman

Edited By NJH on 16/12/2012 00:18:36

[SiddleyParticipant @siddley]

Posted by alan smith 6

Ps The speed limit is 70.

Alan

The speed limit is as fast as you can go. On my Wideline Featherbed Triton with the pre-unit T120R engine and close ratio box it was about 126mph at 7,200 rpm in top.

Now grow up

[TerrydParticipant @terryd72465]

Posted by alan smith 6 on 15/12/2012 16:41:09:
…………………

Terry, do you think that a minus 20 thou on a gear bore diameter is ok? Lucky for RDG that they have customers like you. No metaphors OK.

……………………………..

Alan

Edited By alan smith 6 on 15/12/2012 16:48:07

Edited By alan smith 6 on 15/12/2012 16:49:48

In answer to your first question NO. As for your second point all I will say is that I know my rights under the 'Sale or Goods Act 1979 (as Amended)' and the Distance Selling Regulations, I question suppliers courteously but firmly and am never satisfied with substandard goods. Why do you have a problem understanding that?

Is it because I (and others) are not intent on reinforcing your own prejudices and prefer to state our own experiences? What is your problem – Freud would have a field day with your postings.

Best regards

Terry

Edited By Terryd on 16/12/2012 01:24:41

[Ian S CParticipant @iansc]

The importer of both my milling machine, and my lathe actually go to the factory, in my case in Taiwan, and select the machines directly. I haven't bought anythe lately, but I imagine that they do the same with the Chinese. I might be prooved wrong, but I'v never seen any Indian tooling, so can't judge its quality.

In the time this thread's been going, you could get to work and cut a set of gears, maybe the way I do it with a flycutter, withn a hand shaped cutter. Ian S C

[LambtonParticipant @lambton]

Dear NJH

"Firstly I think you should have been a bit suspicious ! but you retained your £21 purchase and modified it to suit. At minimal outlay for parts you modified your cheapo purchase, saved yourself over £42 on the "Genuine" price, got a bit of practice in and had some fun in the workshop! Where's the problem?"

>Thank you for your comment on my posting. I understand the point you are making but let me explain my views a little further>

>I felt rather foolish at buying a cheap and inferior product when for not much more I could have had the genuine article at a very good discount so I modified the faulty part to make it usable. I did not enjoy doing this and at my age I did not need the experience. All I gained from the whole exercise was to be less stupid in the future and not be "penny wise and pound foolish". I eventually sold this item, fully informing the purchaser of its history, for a low price. I then bought a secondhand genuine Myford item from eBay which of course was a perfect fit. >

On the more positive side I have purchased a precision live centre and a 5C lathe collet chuck from Chester. Both items are well made, accurate and have given me every satisfaction.

When buying the Indian product described I did not expect a well finished casting or a good paint job however I did expect it to fit properly. Even if I only used the steady once in a blue moon I would still expect it to fit properly.

Kind regards

Lambton

[David Clark 13Participant @davidclark13]

Hi There

I was lucky, about 10 years ago I bought a brand new (second-hand) Myford ML7R from a chap on Ebay for £1,750.

I did not win the auction, a chap in Ireland did. I missed the end of the auction for some reason.

(Before I new how to snipe a bid.) I emailed the seller and said if the auction sale fell through to contact me.

The Irish chap backed out when he found the cost of shipping the Myford to Ireland.

I got the lathe.

However, if I could not have afforded the Myford, I would happily be running an Arc Euro Trade C3.

It would do all that I need.

Yes, I might have to upgrade bits and pieces but I would have a sound machine to do this on.

Regarding a gear with an undersize bore, I think it would be very forward looking of the supplier to supply it undersize so the end user could bore it true to fit his machine rather than send it out with a pronounced wobble.

regards David

[David Clark 13Participant @davidclark13]

Hi There

A question.

How many new model engineers have started who otherwise would not have because a Chinese lathe was affordable?

regards David

[A SmithParticipant @asmith78105]

Reading this post, there seems to have been some misrepresentation of the OP issue. He bought some spare parts, they did not fit. The resolution was unsatisfactory. Some of the usual suspects seized on this to practise their baiting skills, which in one instance clearly matches his engineering ability.

I went to the Myford closing sale, bought some bits and talked to several other Myford lathe owners. We were all universally gloomy at the news that RDG had bought the name. The consensus was that they would sell the contents of the stores and gradually feed in their normal foreign made replacements.

It's a big leap from being a trader to becoming a manufacturer (Les Harris proved this with his rubbish Bonnevilles), I and others thought it would be beyond RDG, so far that's proved the case. (Very unfortunately, as I like using my Myford & would like a source of fit-for-purpose spare parts.)

Regards,

Andy

Edited By David Clark 1 on 16/12/2012 09:52:17

[Raymond AndersonParticipant @raymondanderson34407]

DC1, How right you are about starting with a chinese lathe I still have my Warco GH750 which is about 12 years old now and it is still performing great to this day. I did replace the single phase motor with a 3hp Siemens unit fed with a Eurotherm 650 vfd. and the only thing hat has ever "gone" on it is the halogen bulb after about 7years. Is it as good as my other lathe, DSG 17T? of course not , but then the DSG [second hand] cost far more than the GH750 did new. Same with my Chester lux mill 7 years old and still accurate and going strong. But I understand where the original poster is coming from, re substandard parts, that is in no way acceptable. It should not be up to the user to modify parts to get them to fit what they were designed for.[or supposed to be designed for]. It all comes down to lack of quality control at the end of the day that's why parts are made with tolerances of fit.

Chinese TOOLING now thats another ball game,worse than useless, NEVER skrimp on tooling/workholding thats my motto.

Regards,

Raymond.

Edited By Raymond Anderson on 16/12/2012 09:40:46

[David Clark 13Participant @davidclark13]

Hi There

Spelling errors.

I have just gone through this thread and corrected several errors in spelling.

Please note China ends with an 'A'' not a k or ky.

Chinese ends with an 'ESE' not with a k or ky.

This is not the place to discuss fireworks or curries.

regards David

Edited By David Clark 1 on 16/12/2012 09:53:23

[Michael HornerParticipant @michaelhorner54327]

"How many new model engineers have started who otherwise would not have because a Chinese lathe was affordable?"

Not a model engineer but a repairer of things. I have a Conquest lathe from Chester. I have had it over 10 years, no failures, abused it to hell. I now have have a 5" chuck on it to save changing jaws. For the price the spec was fantastic. Accurcey? It does the job. I did a lot of the suggested improvements gleened from the Internet.

One satisfied Chinese lathe owner!

In short I would have kept putting it off buying a lathe.

Cheers Michael.

[magpieParticipant @magpie]

Please keep this thread going gents (and Alan) , It's the best laugh i have had for a long time.

Cheers Derek

P.S. I am now going to my air-raid shelter,to avoid flying myford bits.

[Michael HornerParticipant @michaelhorner54327]

"Chinese TOOLING now thats another ball game,worse than useless, NEVER skrimp on tooling/workholding thats my motto.

Regards,

Raymond."

Hi Raymond

Just wanted to point out you are slagging of a whole nation again. I bought some ER25 collets and chuck from Hong Kong, I can't tell you what the accurcy is because I never felt the need to check it,

If you buy quality tooling does it matter its country of origin!

Cheers Michael

[Ketan SwaliParticipant @ketanswali79440]

Posted by magpie on 16/12/2012 10:14:44:

Please keep this thread going gents (and Alan) , It's the best laugh i have had for a long time.

Cheers Derek

P.S. I am now going to my air-raid shelter,to avoid flying myford bits.

Me too.

Ketan at ARC.

[TerrydParticipant @terryd72465]

Posted by David Clark 1 on 16/12/2012 09:51:03:

Hi There

Spelling errors.

I have just gone through this thread and corrected several errors in spelling.

Please note China ends with an 'A'' not a k or ky.

Chinese ends with an 'ESE' not with a k or ky.

This is not the place to discuss fireworks or curries.

regards David

Edited By David Clark 1 on 16/12/2012 09:53:23

Well said David.

India was the centre for iron and steel technology about 1000 years before the Anglo Saxons even invaded these islands. They were able to produce high carbon steels (similar to Wootz steel aka the legendary Damascus steel) and was exporting it when the inhabitants of these isles were painting themselves blue and living in mud huts.

The Chinese had a flourishing civilsation and were technologically advanced, making advanced forged steel in the fifth century BC while we were worshipping Misletoe and sacrificing virgins at midsummer.

A bit more than curry and fireworks, we have a lot to thank those civilisations for.

Best regards.

Terry

[Ketan SwaliParticipant @ketanswali79440]

Posted by Terryd on 16/12/2012 01:24:09:

What is your problem – Freud would have a field day with your postings.

Best regards

Terry

Edited By Terryd on 16/12/2012 01:24:41

Terry,

I think Freud would enjoy this topic, and I think we would all be prime candidates, including you, me, JS…nothing personal…just an observation ..otherwise how could you explain the fact that we are enjoying this so much?

Ketan.

[TerrydParticipant @terryd72465]

Posted by alan smith 6 on 15/12/2012 19:12:28:

John Stevenson is suddenly speechless when confronted with simple questions. I hope that he will reply as he promises, otherwise we can just ignore his posts as hype.

No Reply from Terry, Likewise.

Ketan, This was a hypothetical question no reference to RDC. You have not answered the question correctly, I will reveal all once those other foggers have deigned to answer the same question, if they ever do!

Alan

Ps, Surely backplates should be made from cast Iron!

Edited By alan smith 6 on 15/12/2012 19:20:23

Edited By alan smith 6 on 15/12/2012 19:26:10

Very sorry Alan not to have waited with baited breath for you next gems of deep and profound thought. I was busy having a life in my workshop and getting ready for the first of our family gatherings for the festive season.

I'll be more attentive to your needs in future, or perhaps I'll press the 'ignore member' button.

Best wishes for the season of goodwill !!

Terry

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