Cheap carbide tipped lathe tools from Proops?

[Andrew TinsleyParticipant @andrewtinsley63637]

A long time ago, when I was last doing model engineering, brazed carbide tipped tools were the latest thing. I always preferred a correctly ground HSS tool as it gave me a better finish on most materials.

Now I am a retread, I am tempted by the sets of very cheap lathe tools from Proops Bros of Fleckney. From the price, they cannot be of very high quality, but they have very cheap replaceable tips as a bonus.

I am considering buying a set to use for roughing out cuts and preserve my ultra sharp HSS tools for final cuts.

Is this a sensible thing to do? Are cheap carbide tipped tools a snare and delusion?

Andrew.

[Andrew TinsleyParticipant @andrewtinsley63637]

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Don't know how well they will cut as the "cheap" inserts look to be flat topped so zero top rake, may be OK on brass but could be iffy on ali and steel.

Cutter set

[John HinkleyParticipant @johnhinkley26699]

When I bought my lathe, about seven years ago, it came with a set of brazed carbide tools. I got such an atrocious finish with them, I nearly gave up with the lathe. Then I got some HSS tooling and they transformed every aspect of my work. Since then, I've added replaceable tip tools to my arsenal with variable results. (I suspect I'm using inferior tips through being tight-fisted!) Personally, I wouldn't touch brazed tip tooling with somebody else's bargepole, but that's just based on my experience. Others may have a different view, of course.

John

[Andrew TinsleyParticipant @andrewtinsley63637]

Thanks Mr Moderator! I didn't know how to provide a link to the Proops cheapos!

I wasn't suggesting for a minute that one should use the old fashioned brazed carbide tip tools. I merely mentioned them as the latest thing, thirty years ago!

I have been using some cheap carbide tips on a friends, much bigger, Chinese lathe. Depending on material and playing with cutting speeds they can yield a reasonable finish on most materials, but not as good as a keen HSS tool.

Looking at the Proops pictures, I cannot see much detail in the rake angles, but then my eyesight isn't what it was! So do I take it that they are no good for roughing cuts in steel?

Andrew.

[John HaineParticipant @johnhaine32865]

I bought a similar looking set from Chronos a few years ago and they are reasonably good. But you can never tell what the tip quality is. But if they are truly without chip breaker grooves then I'd avoid.

[John Stevenson 1Participant @johnstevenson1]

Don't expect ANY repeatability with these as there is a gap at the back of the insert and all that happens is as you traverse the insert pivots on the screw until it hits a corner. If you then cut in another plane it does the same on the other corner.

[HacksawParticipant @hacksaw]

They're Groovy !

 

 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/5-x-Carbide-Tip-Cutting-Tools-for-the-Proops-3-8-Indexing-Tool-Listed-M0142-/290944496020?hash=item43bda4b194:g:sQcAAOSwv9hW5oby

Edited By Hacksaw on 29/11/2016 21:33:58

[Matthew BrookesParticipant @matthewbrookes31933]

Stick to tool holders that fit industry standard inserts then its easier to pick and choose insert quality and grade as required.

Matt

[Enough!Participant @enough]

I had some tools that appear to be identical to those shown in Jason's link, bought locally, years ago. They were poorly made in that the carbide insert didn't seat firmly against the retaining wall at the back. Because of that it could rock back and forth under cutting loads with consequent sudden dig-ins (no matter how much I tightened the retaining screw).

I did manage to use them tolerably well by inserting bits of brass shim to take up the gap but frankly it was a pita and I soon got something better.

I don't doubt that you can get a better finish with HS tools but carbide does a plenty good enough job for anything I do and has the advantage of speed and convenience.

Edited By Bandersnatch on 29/11/2016 22:35:13

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Posted by Andrew Tinsley on 29/11/2016 21:20:11:

Looking at the Proops pictures, I cannot see much detail in the rake angles, but then my eyesight isn't what it was! So do I take it that they are no good for roughing cuts in steel?

Andrew.

Hold your mouse over the image on Proops Site and it will magnify the picture if that does not work get down to specsavers

The ones on the e-bay advert don't look the same as those supplied with the tools. There are many tips available from China at less than a pound a pop and these look to be of similar quality. As with everything you pays your money……………..

[nigel jones 5Participant @nigeljones5]

I have a set of these, well i did once! I still use one in the fly cutter as it tends not to get blunt too quickly and the other i use for cutting stainless at high speed, something hss simply doesnt do, the others have been lost or binned. For general lathe work i strongly advise against them in favour of hss.

[Rik ShawParticipant @rikshaw]

I have just bought a new 16mm RH indexable lathe tool on ebay and some Kennametal TPUN 110304 tips to fit it. The tips are flat topped with an 11 degree side rake and no chip breaker. The seat of the tip pocket on the tool is at an angle and cants the top of the tip over to give top rake.
So far I have used the tool on steel, stainless and brass and it performs every bit as good as HSS if not better. I also have a set of cheap Chinese made brazed tip tools which came with my lathe but after using them briefly I consigned them to a dark corner – probably OK for ally and plastic but really not worth bothering with.

Rik

 

 

 

 

Edited By Rik Shaw on 30/11/2016 10:25:13

[Andrew TinsleyParticipant @andrewtinsley63637]

OK Gentlemen,

The Proops tools and tips are a no go. Gap at rear of tips and apparent lack of chip breaker and top rake rules them out.

This leaves me with a lot of Google searches that turn up hundreds of possibilities. Will someone put a nail in the wall and tell me what are a good combination of 1/4" tools and tips? Lots of general advice (apart from Riks 16mm tools). Any specific brands and suppliers that you can recommend? I am not looking for super finishes, just something for the roughing cuts . I don't want the very best industry standard at mega bucks!

Andrew.

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Glanze work OK for me or ARC's own brand are similar this one will face and turn and is probably the holder I use the most. The CCMT and CCGT tips can be used in boring bars too so you don't need to keep a vast range of inserts

Edited By JasonB on 01/12/2016 20:10:31

[Roderick JenkinsParticipant @roderickjenkins93242]

J&B are nice people to deal with as well as ARC and have the 6mm tool in stock. Made in the UK is a bonus.

HTH,

Rod

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