Cheap carbide inserts – where’s the market?

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Going by this snip from Bobs linked video if he is happy with that finish then he is easily pleased  I think my dog could do better chewing it.

 

 

Edited By JasonB on 29/11/2018 15:47:11

Edited By JasonB on 29/11/2018 15:47:47

[Bob StevensonParticipant @bobstevenson13909]

Well i certainly get MUCH better finish than that……However, there is more material on the video than that if you look,…and don't go out of your way to purposely be negative……. The fact remains that these tools compare VERY favourably in side by side tests with those costing many times the price.

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

Does "the quality of cheap inserts seems to be getting better" = "I bought twelve boxes and finally got some that work"?

[I.M. OUTAHEREParticipant @i-m-outahere]

Posted by jimmy b on 29/11/2018 15:16:28:

I have had quite a few dodgy ones lately!!

I suspect poor quality rejects!!!!!

I just reground the top with a diamond wheel, worked ok.

Jim

But check out that finish on the Gold paint !

[jimmy bParticipant @jimmyb]

its a proper coating!

It can take some getting through with a diamond wheel!

When I found this I went through all my recent purchases from China, found 6 dud inserts (two in one box).

I'm happy to take the chance on the quality. Typically a box of ten DCMT070204 inserts cost around £3, so the risk is worth it in my book.

I did once buy some drills that were painted…………….

Jim

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

I'm sorry Bob but I have just endured the rest of that video and don't see anything positive that would make me want to buy his wares, if that is being used to show beginners how to do things then pity anyone who watches it.

A few highlights

Having told us the facing tool will always go back into the QCTP "spot on" ctr height a close up of the end of the bar after facing shows deep ridges and a conical pip where the tool is too high, have a look at about 10.15 into the video.

Now I don't know what sort of shape he was aiming for when turning the long thin rod but I would like to see the link to that eccentric rotating ctr he is using that is so out of true its a joke 12.30 into the vid

Also no wonder the footage of that first drill going in was cut short as it was jumping all over the place, 21.00 in.

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

It's the cut at 23:25 just at the moment when the chuck spins in the tailstock.

He is showing mini lathes have more guts than most people realise, but I think he's running those big drills too fast.

Neil

[Anonymous]

Posted by JasonB on 29/11/2018 18:46:10:

………. but I would like to see the link to that eccentric rotating ctr he is using that is so out of true its a joke 12.30 into the vid

Yep, that was pretty amazing, if the desk hadn't been in the way my jaw would have hit the floor.

It is very difficult to judge surface finish from pictures, you really need to see, feel, and ultimately measure to get useful results. It would be interesting to see the quantative results of the side by side tests alluded to by Bob.

Andrew

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Posted by Andrew Johnston on 29/11/2018 19:17:45:

It is very difficult to judge surface finish from pictures, you really need to see, feel, and ultimately measure to get useful results. It would be interesting to see the quantative results of the side by side tests alluded to by Bob.

Andrew

How far along the Badger's scale does your RA tester go

[Ron LadenParticipant @ronladen17547]

Posted by Bob Stevenson on 29/11/2018 15:56:28:

The fact remains that these tools compare VERY favourably in side by side tests with those costing many times the price.

Bob if the above is true then unfortunately that video did them no favours at all as the turning and facing looked awful. I have only had my lathe a few months but you soon come to recognise a good and a bad finish but does the operator in the video..? if the revolving centre is not ringing alarm bells it makes you wonder.

[Anonymous]

Posted by JasonB on 29/11/2018 19:39:59:

How far along the Badger's scale does your RA tester go

On the highest scale 99.9µm, which is pretty rough. It's about 0.1mm, and remember that Ra is an average measurement, not peak to peak. The roughest scale on my Rubert block:

is 12.5µm, and that feels really rough to the finger nail.

Andrew

[not done it yetParticipant @notdoneityet]

That is the first video from that fellow that I have watched.

First impressions count and my first impression was that if he was sharp enough he would not have posted that video.

Sorry, but first impressions count when there is such a wide range of u-toobers out there.

I watch quite a few on different subjects but one can easily choose those, which are fully competent, from the rest.

I will take a look at one or two of his other vids to see if I could change my view on the matter. Don’t hold your breath waiting for a better review.

I’m certainly not a fully competent metalworker, but I know which, of those videos I watch, are by the better machinists.

[David Standing 1Participant @davidstanding1]

Posted by not done it yet on 29/11/2018 22:41:11:

That is the first video from that fellow that I have watched.

First impressions count and my first impression was that if he was sharp enough he would not have posted that video.

Sorry, but first impressions count when there is such a wide range of u-toobers out there.

I watch quite a few on different subjects but one can easily choose those, which are fully competent, from the rest.

I will take a look at one or two of his other vids to see if I could change my view on the matter. Don’t hold your breath waiting for a better review.

I’m certainly not a fully competent metalworker, but I know which, of those videos I watch, are by the better machinists.

I watched several more of the videos too…..that's a few minutes of my life I will never get back!

I was amused by his comment that there was an 'excellent finish'. I hope Mr Badger wasn't watching!

Anyone that operates a lathe with the toolpost wrench in position gives me the jitters straight away. It only has to get accidentally knocked off into the chuck jaws and you have a free face reprofiling.

As to offsetting the lathe tool in the holder to give more face clearance, why not just fully seat the tool, and offset the toolpost by rotating it several degrees?!

And yes, before seeing Jason's post, I also couldn't help but notice the wobbly revolving centre!

[IanTParticipant @iant]

I watched that particular video quite recently and wasn't too impressed with the finish either (it's not a great advert for insert tools) – but don't write the guy off completely. He has some interesting ideas and executes them pretty well most of the time. He also does admit if (later on) things didn't turn out quite as well as he'd hoped – and explains how he's tried to overcome any problems. So whilst he's not in quite the same league as Stephan G. or Joe P (the Texan Spider Man) – he's no dummy either. I've certainly seen much worse stuff on YT, that's for sure.

He has tended to be a promotional site for BangBad stuff recently though – again that's not always a bad thing. Some interesting stuff gets a 'shove' from him, that frankly I might not hear about otherwise. I can mostly decide what I think is good (and what looks a bit Carp) and I don't have to watch anything that doesn't interest me.

A quick click – and he's gone.

IanT

[Chris TriceParticipant @christrice43267]

I'm sure his intentions were good but I winced several times during that "tutorial". And that tailstock centre! Seriously?

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Maybe videos like that are why we get beginners saying they are happy with their poundland inserts, if they have watched a video like that by a guy introducing them to "Precision Engineering " and telling them that those finishes are excellent then they would not expect anything better.

I think the only time the finish looked close to acceptable was when the boring tool was used to face the outside of the test piece. I'm not keen on the DCMT inserts for general turning as they are a 55deg point which is like using a threading tool swung over 25degrees. The only time it cut well was when presented with the trailing edge close to the work.

I would personally direct a beginner to CCMT and CCGT as they can just like the ones shown be used to turn and bore with the boring bar fitting into a smaller hole, don't need the tool setting at an angle to give clearance, less pointed end is more durable, you can use all 4 corners with the right holders, etc

[Ron LadenParticipant @ronladen17547]

Well speaking as a beginner I would like to think that most people starting out and with a bit of practice can recognise a good from bad finish, be it turning or milling. You know when you have a really good finish on a job, its just obvious isnt it..? I can see from the video though it could get a beginner off to a bad start as it all looked a bit rough and ready and they could take what was shown as acceptable.

I have seen a couple of his videos regarding mods he did to his mini lathe and they were good. It would probably have been better had he just explained the tool and drill set in this video as it all fell apart once he started using them.

[Bob StevensonParticipant @bobstevenson13909]

Well I really must apologise……. I never realised what superbly able artisans were on this site and I'm sorry i wasted everybodies time like this!

When I use my nasty cheap Chinese tools I do usually obrtain a mear mirror finish which intially surprised me as I don't get any better with some very expensive inserts/tools. Of course I've only bee na lathe owner for 34 years and also, I only make clocks, so hardly in the same league as most people here.

Rest assured that I won't post again…….

[David Standing 1Participant @davidstanding1]

Posted by Bob Stevenson on 30/11/2018 08:59:49:

Well I really must apologise……. I never realised what superbly able artisans were on this site and I'm sorry i wasted everybodies time like this!

When I use my nasty cheap Chinese tools I do usually obrtain a mear mirror finish which intially surprised me as I don't get any better with some very expensive inserts/tools. Of course I've only bee na lathe owner for 34 years and also, I only make clocks, so hardly in the same league as most people here.

Rest assured that I won't post again…….

I don't think anyone was criticising you personally………..

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

I can't help thinking that vid was just knocked out quickly to provide a quick 'review'.

It's evident he can work to a high standard, but even if the finish was decent and being shown up by the lighting (it happens) he should have re-shot it as it does give a poor impression.

Neil

[Douglas JohnstonParticipant @douglasjohnston98463]

Just watched the video, and to be fair it wasn't as bad as I was expecting, having read the critical comments. The surface finish was pretty poor in places, but the quality of the metal being turned can sometimes make the best quality inserts look bad. His mistake was to praise the surface finish. Like others, I have seen poorer videos.

I just wonder if there is a touch of elitism about some of the comments regarding cheap inserts and perhaps a wish to put us off buying cheap imports rather than expensive ones which may be advertised on this forum. But there again I may just be a bit paranoid.

Doug

[Anonymous]

Posted by Bob Stevenson on 30/11/2018 08:59:49:

When I use my nasty cheap Chinese tools I do usually obrtain a mear mirror finish……..

So why not post a picture of the finish you get on your work?

Andrew

[not done it yetParticipant @notdoneityet]

I watched a couple of his other vids and will comment that the one above might be the worst he has made – but I’ve not watched them all…. and not likely to.

He does some things that I cringe at, but that is his choice. What he should not be doing is showing bad practice – like cleaning up burrs insde a tube with fingers and abrasives, while being run under power. Beginners could get injured by following some of his methods.

He is also lucky that his 3 jaw chuck seems to have no discernable run out.

[Jeff DaymanParticipant @jeffdayman43397]

Bob Stevenson you have a private message just FYI

[IanTParticipant @iant]

A very good point NDIY – I guess many here just tend to 'filter' out some of those bits (at least I did) – but it could be very dangerous advice for other people who are new to all this. However, this is true of quite a lot of stuff on YT – some of it is very misleading I'm afraid.

Personally – I've never quite forgotten Guy Martin trying to make a baked bean tin on TV (he was travelling around on a canal boat for some reason) – and cringing when he held a piece of tinplate (rough cut into a circular saw shape) down with his fingers (on the drill table) whilst drilling the centre. Surprisingly, it didn't catch and spin – but it made my toes curl to just watch it…

IanT

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