Buying first lathe

[Jacob BrownParticipant @jacobbrown]

Hi.

I want to dive into world of metal turning. I been thinking about staying away from chinese machinery and get old English lathe with good reputation. Right now i got opportunity to buy Myford ML7. Judging by pictures it seems to be example in reasonable condition, however what bothers me is state of lathe bed from head stock side. It's got a lot of marks and scratches. Would you buy it for 1k? What are your thoughts on it? Don't think me rude for not replying to messages but I won't be online until afternoon. Thank you for help in advance.

[Jacob BrownParticipant @jacobbrown]

[pgk pgkParticipant @pgkpgk17461]

A few scratches and dings happen and needn't be meaningful any more than an immaculate paint job means much apart from that someone cleaned it up at some stage and probably resprayed. Myford afficianados are almost a religeous sect

What matters is whether the thing has meaningful wear on beds and drive and what sorts of accessories are included and, most importantly, what you plan on doing with it as to capacity and ease of use and your abilities when it comes to checking electrical/mechanical safety/

Equally there's generally nothing wrong with far eastern lathes if bought from reputable importer – usually with a load more accessories included and some level of warranty.

pgk

[DurhambuilderParticipant @durhambuilder]

The dulux paint colour match swatch under the left foot would ring some alarm bells ! Has it been hastily repainted?

[HopperParticipant @hopper]

It's always hard to tell from photos but it does not look too bad. There are quite a few unfortunate dents and dings in the the bed at the headstock end from some careless owner dropping things like chucks on there etc. But they won't affect the lathe performance. Bed visually in the pics does not look too badly worn, but who knows if it's been rubbed down a bit with emery cloth or a file? The machine looks to have been almost certainly freshly painted so somebody has been tarting it up. The original-looking black paint on the cross slide end bracket that holds the cross slide handle and dial, and on the felt wiper housing on the carriage,  probably is indicative of the original paint: some wear but not excessive.

Best way to check is to measure the bed with a micrometer. Most wear will occur on the front bed way right about where the carriage is sitting in the pics. Measure the vertical thickness there and the horizontal width. Then compare with the same measurements at the less worn far left end of the bed. Max wear before a regrind is recommended is .005" on the vertical measurement and .003" on the horizontal measurement across the width of that front shear.

The handwheels and levers etc do not show a lot of wear so it probably has not been driven into the ground in a commercial workshop etc. Can you ask the seller for some "before" photos showing what it was like before he painted it up?

Is it worth 1000 beer tokens? Maybe, or not. You see them advertised for both less and more. Depends largely on the condition and also, very important, what accessories come with it. For that price you would like to get three and four jaw chucks, centres, tools, bits and pieces etc. The more the better.

These old lathes are good when they are in good condition. And this one certainly appears clean and tidy enough. But it's like buying a 50 year old car. If you know what you are looking at and check it over carefully, you can get a good one. But if you don't really know and don't check it thoroughly, you might get a good one or you might get a dud that requires an 800 Quid bed regrind. My gut feeling would be that if this one has not been deliberately faked up, the bed does not look too bad. But who knows for sure? Best to inspect it in person and assess both machine and seller carefully.

Sadly though, buying new is not always a guarantee of 100 per cent perfection either at the budget end of the market but at least you have warranty coverage and after sales service if you buy from a reputable dealer etc. Most people seem to be happy with them and many, many on here have used them for years with great success.

 

 

Edited By Hopper on 22/06/2020 09:44:11

Edited By Hopper on 22/06/2020 09:53:13

Edited By Hopper on 22/06/2020 09:59:19

[larry phelan 1Participant @larryphelan1]

A friend of mine used to say, "A coat of paint would make the Devil a saint"

Fair point ! I prefer to see these things before they are tarted up.

[Bill PudneyParticipant @billpudney37759]

Yep, beware of "restoration by repainting"!!

I would be very wary of spending the sort of money that you are, based only on photographs, from an unknown vendor.

best of luck in your search

cheers

Bill

[BazyleParticipant @bazyle]

Is it being sold by relatives oof the only owner since new? If it has been repainted they did a better job than most. As it is not on a bench it looks like they moved it from its original location. A few scratches are normal wear and a single hobby owner just can't use a lathe enough to destroy it. One could reasonably assume other bits like chucks must exist which you can enquire about.
If you look at the prices on ebay I would expect a garage trader will pick it up if you don't and put it up for £1300 at least.

[J HancockParticipant @jhancock95746]

Looks nice but don't forget you will need a 4 and 3jaw chuck, full set of change-wheels, tailstock chuck,etc

as a minimum before you can really 'get going' .

[not done it yetParticipant @notdoneityet]

I would add that I have encountered two such unfortunate individuals who bought lathes rather ‘blind’ in the past year. Both likely paid three, or more, times the price they should/could.

Both thought they were getting a reasonable deal but were clearly ‘ripped’ by the sellers. Another was intending to buy a lathe at the BIN price which was twice the amount it actually sold for, at auction.

Only last night I saw one advert (not a lathe) for a used item (on sale by a large supplier at £235 with ‘free’ delivery) at the advertised price of £275 + delivery! The main dealer is actually out of stock at present, but this item is one that is sold by several suppliers (with the usual different paint schemes).

Having said all that, my brother needed an air hood for work and had to pay far more than the discounted prices before the pandemic. None available from most usual stockists. It was still cheaper than his local supplier, mind.

[Jacob BrownParticipant @jacobbrown]

Thank you so much for great response and advices. Unfortunetaly at this stage I wouldn't have neither knowledne nor tools to measure lethe bed properly. Seller unfortunately appear to be some kind of trader hence I'm unable to get any information as to previous usage etc. It comes with bunch of tools and accesorries. I managed to obtain few more pictures. It's gamble for me as currently I'm walking blind as far as lathes are concerned. I don't like fact that it's been repainted. Hopefully it wasn't to cover any potential extensive weariness. Still can't decide and most likely need to sleep on it.

[Grindstone CowboyParticipant @grindstonecowboy]

Seems okay IMHO – I think it's just the covers that have been repainted, as they look a slightly different shade to me? And there appears to be a bunch of useful extras with it.

Rob

[Niels AbildgaardParticipant @nielsabildgaard33719]

As a former Myford owner I would buy a new modern lathe instead.

Have a look at a Sieg C4 from Arceuro as example.

If You buy the Myford there will be constant pressure for telling Yourself and everybody else how good a tradesman You are and that it was deal of the century.

The Sieg thing is more silent,more accurate under load,more wear resistant,bigger hole in spindle ,power cross feed ,(My former Boxford has it and I miss it) and not a lot more expensive.Sell one or two of the grandchildren to cover the 400 exstra £ and enjoy.

Edited By Niels Abildgaard on 22/06/2020 13:53:52

[BazyleParticipant @bazyle]

What is missing from the accessories are the second set of jaws for the 3 jaw chuck. Every 3 jaw chuck has 2 sets of jaws and at least 50% go missing. They are specific to the chuck on manufacture so would have the serial number on them so NOT available on ebay whatever the trader tells you. However 80% of your work will use the ones provided which is why thos ones don't get lost. You can get an adequate (not brilliant but adequate for a beginner) new chuck some time in the next 6 months for about £80. Again after a while not day one or even day 50 you will need a 4 jaw chuck (which only needs one set of jaws) for about the same.
The green thing with a handle on top in the middle is a 'vertical slide' worth £100+ gives you some of the functions of a milling machine the other parts would cost you at least £100. You won't need anything else for six months except a mask to hide the smug smile on your face. (ok, you need a better on off switch).

Although personally I would always prefer a Boxford on ebay this would have gone gone gone.

[Jacob BrownParticipant @jacobbrown]

Posted by Niels Abildgaard on 22/06/2020 13:52:29:

As a former Myford owner I would buy a new modern lathe instead.

Have a look at a Sieg C4 from Arceuro as example.

If You buy the Myford there will be constant pressure for telling Yourself and everybody else how good a tradesman You are and that it was deal of the century.

The Sieg thing is more silent,more accurate under load,more wear resistant,bigger hole in spindle ,power cross feed ,(My former Boxford has it and I miss it) and not a lot more expensive.Sell one or two of the grandchildren to cover the 400 exstra £ and enjoy.

Edited By Niels Abildgaard on 22/06/2020 13:53:52

I'm sort of old machinery fan. The worst case failure seems to be motor which can be replaced as there is no electronic on Myford. This machine will serve me lifetime if it turned good purchase. Thank you for advice.

[Steve NeighbourParticipant @steveneighbour43428]

Posted by Jacob Brown on 22/06/2020 06:44:05:

Hi.

"I want to dive into world of metal turning. I been thinking about staying away from chinese machinery and get old English lathe with good reputation"

So you have assumed that 'chinese machinery' is no good then ?

There is a very healthy debate between the 'good 'old' british lathes and the 'new' ones from Asia, and it will continue for years.(much the same as Cannon ver Nikon cameras, or BMW/MB and Audi car owners)

Yes 'some' chinese made machinery is not worth touching with the preverbral barge pole, BUT . . . some is well made and certainly robust, often made to 'borrowed' european designs with the added advantage that there is a plentiful spares and accessories market from a large number of UK suppliers.

I too was in the market for a lathe earlier this year, and was absolutley of the mind set to buy a Myford, having looked at a shiney 'new' one at the Ally Pally show, I was 'completely in love' they are VERY well made, and everything operates so so smoothly, you can grab a manufacturer 'as new' one at the very basic intorductory level for around £3k, but . . . you get no add-ons for that price, if you want a 'all singing' one, you'll wave goodbye to well over £5k and it is still somewhat limited by today's standards, it has a small spindle bore, and limited speed ranges, but there will be a lot of folk on here who swear by them as the 'only' lathe to consider.

In the end I decided on a chinese made lathe (Weiss) badged as a Warco (but there are many badge engineered versions of the same machine) and I have enough £'s left over to look at a milling machine and a few other man cave toys.

But – it is purly a matter of personal choice, you pays your money on what 'you' decide and as long as it meets your expectations then you'll be happy (which, at the end of the day is ALL that matters in this topsey turvey world

Edited By Steve Neighbour on 22/06/2020 15:08:54

[Jacob BrownParticipant @jacobbrown]

Posted by Steve Neighbour on 22/06/2020 15:04:20:

Posted by Jacob Brown on 22/06/2020 06:44:05:

Hi.

"I want to dive into world of metal turning. I been thinking about staying away from chinese machinery and get old English lathe with good reputation"

So you have assumed that 'chinese machinery' is no good then ?

I know China is able to produce high quality equipment depend on specyfication of order. Problem is more with trend among manufacturers. Nowadays machinery is more user friendly but at cost of electronics and overall overcomplication. Days of making things built to last are sadly long gone by and for that reason I tend to opt rather for old ones.

 

Edited By Jacob Brown on 22/06/2020 15:37:50

[Jacob BrownParticipant @jacobbrown]

Posted by Bazyle on 22/06/2020 13:55:08:

It's relief to know I won't need much more to strat with. Good quality 4 jaw chuck is expensive but over time I should be able to afford one. Thank you for help Bazyle.

[Peter HallParticipant @peterhall61789]

Posted by Jacob Brown on 22/06/2020 13:30:10:

Unfortunetaly at this stage I wouldn't have neither knowledne nor tools to measure lethe bed properly. Seller unfortunately appear to be some kind of trader hence I'm unable to get any information as to previous usage etc

Then avoid used machinery. If you have no experience, a warranty will give you peace of mind.

If there is a club close to you, it might be worth your while waiting until lockdown ends and paying them a visit. You could learn a lot from talking directly to lathe users. There is a limit to what you can learn by asking questions on the internet.

Pete

[Peter HallParticipant @peterhall61789]

The worst case failure seems to be motor which can be replaced as there is no electronic on Myford.

Oh no! It could be a LOT worse than that.

Pete

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

Well Jacob, if you want British and don't have any expertise you have to take the risk. Nothing said on this forum can confirm if that's a good-un or a wreck. Looks OK to me, maybe too clean, but it's difficult to spot anything other than gross faults from pictures. Bearings shot? Motor? Electrics? Cracks? Half-nut trashed? Bent leadscrew? Cannibalised? Bodged? Spindle and headstock OK? Nobody knows.

Worst case it's a sows ear tarted up for sale, best case it's in clean good order. Myfords come with a few risks. As they were justly good performers in the last century people pay premium money for them, not always wisely. The awful truth is Myford lathes are ageing, and that rarely ends well! Many have been cherished by careful owners, others have been flogged, badly maintained, and otherwise mistreated. And with every passing year the chance of misadventure rises.

My view – buying second-hand forget British, Chinese and brand preferences: condition is everything. Although lots of lathe issues can be fixed cheaply, some problems – like a bed regrind – are expensive, and some lathes absolutely aren't worth fixing. The best way to spot issues is to see the lathe cut metal, but it's hard for inexperienced beginners to tell the difference between duff machine and learner driver mistakes. But motors that won't start, lack power or smoke, tingles, controls that won't engage or work smoothly, wobbles and horrible noises are all red flags waving.

Can the seller demonstrate it? Reluctance to switch on is often a danger sign.

I'm afraid if you want a Myford that one is no more risky than many others; you might as well buy it. The price isn't insane, and might be bargained down if it can't be powered up.

The advantage of buying new is that bad machines can be swapped or refunded. Chaps get worked up about 'quality' but to me it's about managing purchase risk. What's your attitude to a moderate gamble? If the Myford is too scary, walk away. But if brave, financially robust and prepared to refurbish it yourself, that machine could be a good deal. For some mending old machines is the hobby, others hate that and just want to make things. Quite a few of us do both. How do you feel?

Sadly I don't know of a way of buying second-hand machine tools at bargain prices and guarantee them arriving in good nick. Much easier to identify satisfactory second-hand lathes after learning to drive one. I saw my Chinese lathe as worth it for the experience, and was prepared to write it off. As it happens, I'm happy with it. That Myford could be your way in – even if it has warts.

The thing I most regret about this hobby is the time I wasted dithering about which machine to buy.

Dave

[Dave HalfordParticipant @davehalford22513]

I assume you can go and see it?

Bed shows wear ridges, the depth needs checking with a feeler gauge & steel rule. Suck your teeth if a 5thou gauge slips underneath and tell him £600

Don't forget it will only swing 7" dia x 20" long, which is just big enough for a Minnie traction engine wheel

[Alan VosParticipant @alanvos39612]

Posted by Durhambuilder on 22/06/2020 08:31:04:

The dulux paint colour match swatch under the left foot would ring some alarm bells ! Has it been hastily repainted?

There again, it could be a good sign. Some people include a reference colour sample for the same reason others include a ruler.

[J HancockParticipant @jhancock95746]

Plus ,I don't see the full set of change-wheels, add £80min.

[Howard LewisParticipant @howardlewis46836]

You will get a lot of good advice from Myford owners on here.

I once had a ML7, but a fully equipped new one would have cost me four times what I paid for a new, larger Chinese machine, with power cross feed, and variable speed inverter drive. .

This one is almost suspiciously clean, but shows lots of minor dings. The lack of a full set of Change Wheels is off putting. Also, you ought to budget for: a 4 Jaw chuck, Cutting tools, and measuring equipment.

Worst case scenario, This one could have been nicely painted, but assembled for all sorts of bits. Headstock from one machine, Bed from another and Tailstock from a third. And what state are the Spindle and bearings in?

In which case it may not be well aligned. And with respect, as a newbie, setting up a machine is not a job that you should undertake, unless you are a patient, rich, masochist!, with lots of knowledgeable and sklilful friends!

You may well be far better paying out more for a new machine, such as a Sieg SC4, from a reputable importer, where, if there are problems, they will,be resolved quickly, and without argument.

Just my four penn'orth

Howard

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