Building a motorcycle – which thread was it in?

[JimmieSParticipant @jimmies]

[JimmieSParticipant @jimmies]

I am trying to find the thread in which a poster gave details of building a motorcycle – frame, alloy tanks, etc. It may have been in the ‘What Did You Do Today 2017’ or ‘The Workshop Progress Thread’ but despite a lot of looking I can not find the 'page'.. Anyone help, please?

Edited By JimmieS on 29/11/2017 21:12:58

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Jimmie,

It's probably easiest for you to scan through posts made by "Involute Curve"

**LINK**

http://www.model-engineer.co.uk/forums/memberpostings.asp?c=45338

MichaelG.

[JimmieSParticipant @jimmies]

MichaelG

Got it! Many thanks..

Jim

[Bill DawesParticipant @billdawes]

Glad you found it Jimmie, I was resisting the temptation to reply 'British cycle threads', probably wasn't.

Bill D.

[Involute CurveParticipant @involutecurve]

Why do you want a go on it……

Shaun

[JimmieSParticipant @jimmies]

Me sitting on it would have a very negative effect on it's beauty. It is a wonderful creation and way beyond anything I could even dream of making.

Was over on the Island for the Classic TT and while looking at a Triumph twin powered one-off stainless steel framed trials bike the builder appeared. During a chat it turned out that we had a mutual friend. He then showed me another of his creations build in the Metisse style and powered by a large capacity (720cc?) single.

Just wondered if you and he were the same person for which I need to see your bike again. I now know you are not but still wonder who the other lad is.

[Involute CurveParticipant @involutecurve]

I don't know the person you mention, I was at the classic TT this year myself but on another bike (Vello), however I will be going on the centre hub one next year, we are in the process of trying to get our accomodation sorted for next August.

Cheers

Shaun

[Mike PooleParticipant @mikepoole82104]

I saw this at the bike show a couple of weeks ago, the CNC machining reminded me of some of your work Shaun. This is a commercial machine from the Confederate Motorcycle Company. I hope my comparison does not offend you Shaun.

Mike

[Involute CurveParticipant @involutecurve]

Hi Mike, Funny that but no it doesn't, a few years ago I had an email exchange with Ed Jacobs, (instigated by him via the MC-chassis-design digest, of which I'm a member) the designer of the bike you mention, he was struggling with the handling of one of the early bikes, it turned out he wasn't sure what effect differing levels of trail would have on the bikes handling characteristics, in this email exchange it quickly became apparent he didn't fully understand the dynamics of motorcycle steering geometry, I sent him a few sketches of various combinations of rake, tail, offsets, with a brief explanation of each, I never heard from him again, not a thanks, kiss my, arse f-off or nowt, having said that I do like some of his design.

Shaun

[Mike PooleParticipant @mikepoole82104]

I took the picture as it was probably one of the most distinctive bikes at the show but it's not really to my taste. The guy sounds rather rude, an email to just say thanks takes only a minute or two. I did read Tony Foales book on frames many years ago but it seems to have vanished off my shelf. Many things seem to affect handling, I remember when I bought a VF750F with a 16" front wheel it initially seemed to steer very quickly, I soon got used to it though. My introduction to your machines was the Barbarian, it made me go WOW. Keep up the good work.

Mike

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

> one of the most distinctive bikes at the show

That's rather kind. I would say it's 'orrible and ill-proportioned…

[Mike PooleParticipant @mikepoole82104]

Definitely a heavy looking front end but it might be carbon fibre.

Mike

[MikeParticipant @mike89748]

I find it incredibly ugly, and where's the fuel tank? In the fat frame tube at the top? If so, I reckon the rider will have to stop at every petrol station.

[Involute CurveParticipant @involutecurve]

He's a bit sensitive when it comes to criticism of his bikes, but if you do radical you cant expect everyone to like it, or your on a hiding to nothing, he joined the MC-chassis-design digest a while back in order to defend his ground breaking design, which is fair enough I suppose, it had recently been discussed briefly on the mailing list, however it backfired on him, not because his design is radical!, some of the guys on there have pretty radical stuff to, but a lot of them are racers or have worked as professionals in high end race teams and or major players in motorcycle manufacturing, one or two have published books on motorcycle chassis dynamics etc, most have built specials, be it funny front ends or other experimental type bikes, some have bikes that have been placed high on podiums in top flight bike racing inc TT, Superbike and or MotoGP II race series, all are very enthusiastic and willing to help others, but do not take prisoners, radical is good but not if it hinders performance or function just for the sake of it, he tried to argue his designs merits but fell short when faced with engineering realities which quickly became apparent he didn't fully understand, and when this was pointed out to him by very will qualified people he threw his teddy out the pram and left.

My own view is he should have ignored this criticism and just got on with doing his stuff keeping his posting to more suitable custom bike forums, which are more form over function and left the others to get on with there stuff which is more function over form.

I'm unsure where I fit into this, so I read the comments and do my own stuff anyhow.

Only dead fish go with the flow……………………….

Below is a link to the above chassis design stuff

http://www.eurospares.com/

Edited By Involute Curve on 02/12/2017 19:28:16

[Mike PooleParticipant @mikepoole82104]

Posted by Mike on 02/12/2017 12:42:41:

I find it incredibly ugly, and where's the fuel tank? In the fat frame tube at the top? If so, I reckon the rider will have to stop at every petrol station.

The fuel tank is located beneath the engine and the oil I suspect is in the large top frame tube. Mead and Tomkinson used the under slung fuel tank on their endurance racer Nessie back in the 70s the reasoning was that the fuel tank when full is a large mass which would be better low down, the exhaust was taken over the top. Nessie was a challenge to conventional thinking in almost every respect. The same ideas were used on the Elf racer ( that is Elf petrol not one of Santas). Nessie may not have been the first machine to use the ideas built into the bike but is was a radical collection in one place.

Mike

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