Britan Repetition Lathe

[Anonymous]

I'm going to have a look round a professional machine shop tomorrow evening where the two owners are retiring and selling up. I've already had a chat with one of the owners to get an idea of what they have. Among the machine tools is a Britan repetition lathe, which they assumed I wouldn't interested in. Wrong!

I've always been fascinated by them since I saw one working a few years ago. Depending on the overall size I might just be able to squeeze it in, if I re-arrange things, or may be get rid of another machine tool.

Has anyone got any esperience of using these lathes? I understand that they are not easy to set up, so am I just being an idiot for considering it? Also any idea of price? It's a 1-1/4" collet size machine and is supposed to be well tooled. I seem to recall that Britan lathes on Ebay go for low hundreds of pounds, albeit not generally well tooled.

Regards,

Andrew

[Anonymous]

[Ady1Participant @ady1]

I found it interesting because it runs backwards, and used an under-tool support to stiffen bog standard tools for cutting purposes

On the flip side, I would say it excels at repetition work, but might be a PITA if being set up for one off bespoke work, which model engineering has a lot of

Multi tool work with threading dies, drills etc in the tailstock would need left handed tooling?

You can get a manual here

**LINK**

 

If you can get a good one with a bunch of tooling I doubt you would regret it, an intruiging, useful, practical and almost unique machine

Edited By Ady1 on 05/08/2012 09:50:09

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Andrew,

Predictably enough, there is a page about these, here

Looks a very useful piece of kit.

MichaelG.

 

Maybe more helpful, there is a link to the Manual, here

Edited By Michael Gilligan on 05/08/2012 09:52:43

 

Sorry for the duplication; Ady1 beat me to it.

Edited By Michael Gilligan on 05/08/2012 09:54:05

[David Clark 13Participant @davidclark13]

Hi There

These lathes are excellent for fast production.

You would need 3 phase to run them. I doubt they would run properly on a Static converter but might be OK on a rotary one.

They are extremely fast. I once did about 1,000 components in an hour.

Only 3/16 dia x 3/16 long with a 1/16 half round groove in the middle of the diameter.

I can't see why you need left handed threading tools.

You would still need to run in reverse (forwards) to cut right hand threads.

The advantage when threading is the instant reverse which is why I don't think a static converter would be ideal.

The bar feed compressor is usually crap on these machines but there is an easy way round this.

Talk more if you buy it.

regards David

Edited By David Clark 1 on 05/08/2012 21:58:02

[Anonymous]

Thanks for the links. I've read the lathes.co.uk page, downloaded the manual and a few years ago I bought the manual on CD from lathes.co.uk. Sadly the CD seems to have gone AWOL as it cannot now be read properly by either my home or business PC. Rather annoying, as it wasn't cheap.

Anyway, I'm now the 'proud' owner of a Britan repetition lathe, complete with pneumatic bar feeder, loads of collets, several boxes of left hand drills, and lots of other accessories and tools including a couple of rather nice Coventry dieheads and loads of dies. I also bought a large angle plate, a pair of large V blocks, a pair of small V blocks, assorted Morse taper drills and a rather neat 1"-2" M&W internal micrometer and a Wolf double ended grinder. I passed on a Colchester Bantam 1600 (too small for me), a superb Bridgeport in much better condition than mine (fair price but too expensive for me), a compressor (just bought a new one – dooooh) and a Meddings pillar drill.

David: I'll need all the help I can get when learning to run the Britan! I have a proper three phase supply at home, so at least that shouldn't be an issue.

Regards,

Andrew

Edited By Andrew Johnston on 06/08/2012 23:32:03

[Mike Cole 1Participant @mikecole1]

Hi Andrew

I was an apprentice at Britan's during the late 50'sand early 60's. I never had much time using the lathe but did the milling of the dovetails and cylindrical grinding during the last part of my time there. They are great machine for making lots of small components, we used them for making screws and small parts. the setting up is quite easy as there are adjustment screws for both directions of travel. If you get any problems I will try to help.

[Paul BarrettParticipant @paulbarrett57424]

Wow David. That's one component every 3.6 seconds even without a break. Your hands must have been a blur the speed you operated that machine. You don't wear a shirt with a big "S" on it under your coat do you?

[David Clark 13Participant @davidclark13]

Hi Paul

It is a very fast machine.

I did set up several sets of tools to do the same job so all I had to do was index the turret.

Just groove and part off, out to stop with bar feed and do it again.

It was brass as well.

regards David

[Anonymous]

Hi Mike,

Wow, never thought I would get a reply from somebody who actually worked at the Britan factory! I'm sure you've got some interesting stories. I understand that the company started in Gloucester Street in Cambridge? Were they still there in your time with them? I'll definitely be interested in getting any help I can with understanding the set up and running of the machine.

I'll send you PM, rather than clog up the forum with a discussion of what is clearly a rather specialised piece of machinery.

Regards,

Andrew

Edited By Andrew Johnston on 08/08/2012 13:32:35

[websnailParticipant @websnail]

I'd love one. Must have done upwards of a million parts on them. Glad you got the 1 1/4" and not the smaller 3/4" one. Get a good stash of 3"x 5/16" square tool steel. It should easly hold a thou all day and tenths with a little care.

Please note. there are no dials on these machines and all the settings are done by a "tweek" of a spanner held in the hand a a skilled operator.

Good luck. I wish I could afford one.

They did make a fully auto one before the new fangled computers came in but it wasn't much good, Kept going wrong and the company gave up on it.

[Ady1Participant @ady1]

I'll send you PM, rather than clog up the forum with a discussion of what is clearly a rather specialised piece of machinery.

——

I'll wager there's a few of us who wouldn't be averse to a Britan thread in here

like that aircraft thread it can be ignored if you are not interested

This is a model ENGINEERING site after all and like any steam train a Britan is a piece of British engineering history

[Mike Cole 1Participant @mikecole1]

Hi

I glad the Britan is remembered, I spent many happy years milling, drilling and grinding parts to build the machines. I've lost count how many collets I helped to make. The machines were built in batches of 50 and about 3 batches a year. Just about everything was made in the factory, we had a plating plant, case hardening, enamel painting, plastic moulding and all the screws, nuts and bolts were made in house. The castings came from a company in Bedford. Originally the company rebuilt typewriters ( the old glass sided ones) and was called Tansley Typewriters, I'm not sure how the lathes came about but during the war they were on rivet production.

Mike

[Steve GarnettParticipant @stevegarnett62550]

At work, sitting in the garage we have an old Britan. We (well it would have ended up being me, inevitably) were going to do it up, with a view to making some small parts on it, but somehow I don't think we're ever going to get around to it. This particular example hasn't been run for a long time, but looks fundamentally sound. At the moment, I get the impression that the boss would be prepared to part with it, as long as we don't lose any money. If anybody's seriously interested in making an offer for it, send me a PM and I'll make enquiries and take a few pictures. It's in SW London, and you'd have to move it yourself. And now, because of holiday closure, it wouldn't be until September at the earliest.

[Steve GarnettParticipant @stevegarnett62550]

I've just remembered that I have a picture of it in its previous location – gives you some sort of an idea:

[Anonymous]

I'm happy to carry on a discussion on Britan lathes on the forum. May be I misjudged the potential interest. I don't think the Britan lathe is quite history yet. Internet searches throw up a number of engineering companies who list them as part of their inventory. I doubt they'd list them if they weren't using them.

Here's a first technical question. The lathe uses two types of collet I think.; dead length collets for the stock and smaller clockmaker style collets in the tailstock indexer. My lathe comes with a fair number of collets, but does anyone know if these collets are to a standard design, or did Britan invent their own, proprietry, standard? In other words, is there a possibility I can buy new collets that will fit, or am I stuck with what I've got?

Just to clear up one point. As has been stated the lathe runs in 'reverse' in normal operation with the tool bits behind the work. If you want to turn and drill at the same time then you will need left hand drills. I assume this is one reason the lathes are so fast at production, in that you can have two tools working at the same time. However, if the two operations are carried out separately then normal drills can be used, with the lathe running in a 'conventional' direction. I'm sure somebody will correct me if I've got that wrong. Left hand drills seem to be readily available, albeit at a slight premium in price.

Websnail: When I first spoke to the vendor almost the first thing he said was that it was a 1-1/4" version, so clearly more desirable! Did you set up the lathes as well as operate them? I assume that it's fairly simple, in theory. In practise I assume that there are a lot of trial cuts and adjustments of the screws before operating in anger?

Mike: That's really interesting, I'm always keen to hear stories about working in engineering companies. Can you remember which firm in Bedford made the castings? Bedford is my home town; the only casting company in Bedford that springs to mind was Georg Fischer? As I explained to Mike in my PM I used to work in Poseidon House, on Castle Park in Cambridge, which is exactly where Gloucester Street is shown on my street map of Cambridge. My map must date from 1980, when I first came to live in Cambridge. Sadly the street is no longer marked on current maps. On the corner of what was Gloucester Street is the Isaac Newton pub, which I assume was built around 1990 when Castle Park was developed. Does anyone know if there was a pub there before the redevelopment? I used to drink in the Isaac Newton, before I fell out with the landlord.

Steve: Interesting picture; I guess the key questions are what collet capacity and how much tooling is available? For anybody thinking of buying, and moving, a Britan, it's quite a small lathe. I measured the footprint of mine at roughly 38" by 24", weight about 1000lbs I'd guess? So, easily moveable with a car and trailer.

Right coffee break over, back to work!

Regards,

Andrew

[Ady1Participant @ady1]

Makes a pleasant diversion from Myford S7 threads

[David Clark 13Participant @davidclark13]

Hi Andrew

When I sent out capacity charts, everything was listed, working or not.

Makes you look bigger than you really were.

If you got a job and the machine was not working you got it fixed quick.

regards David

[Mike Cole 1Participant @mikecole1]

There was a company in Newmarket who sold spares and collets I don't know if they are still in business. It's quicker to use left hand drills rather than reversing the motor. The Britan has 2 levers on the front of the headstock these control the motor, the levers are mounted concentrically, 1 lever switches from slow to fast, the other reverses the motor, so when tapping a hole the levers can switch to low speed forwards then switch again for reverse and full speed ready for turning.

Yes Andrew the Issac Newton was there in 1955, on the other side of the entrance was Wards who sold cycles and radios, Pye had a factory down the bottom of Gloucester Street.

[Steve GarnettParticipant @stevegarnett62550]

Posted by Andrew Johnston on 09/08/2012 11:52:24:

Steve: Interesting picture; I guess the key questions are what collet capacity and how much tooling is available? For anybody thinking of buying, and moving, a Britan, it's quite a small lathe. I measured the footprint of mine at roughly 38" by 24", weight about 1000lbs I'd guess? So, easily moveable with a car and trailer.

I'll have a look in the morning at the collet capacity. It certainly has some collets with it, but I don't think there's much tooling other than what's currently fitted. Yes, it's relatively easy to move on a trailer – that's how it got to where it is now. What's not quite so easy is lowering it through a large hole in the floor, which is what we had to do first – that's a picture of it on the first floor!

[websnailParticipant @websnail]

Andy.

Yes, setter, operator and maintenance on them for around 26 years.

A 'twitch' on the spanner was about a 'thou' off the dia.

We also had a four spindle bench grinder made by britan, to make the tooling by hand.

[Anonymous]

A Britan Lathe Company in Newmarket appears on internet searches but the links always end up at useless websites claiming that all they've done is gather publicly available information. Complete waste of electrons! I did a search on Companies House and the Britan Lathe Company was dissolved in 2005. That would square with Andrew Engineering claiming to have acquired the assets of BLC in 2004. Mind you, looking their website **LINK** they don't seem to have done much since.

Mike: Thanks for explanation of the motor controls. It's funny you should mention Pye. The chap I bought the lathe from said he did a toolmaking apprenticeship at Pye Unicam, probably in the late 1950s. I must say that cycles and radios seems a funny mix of things to sell. Maybe they missed a chance to invent the Walkman. Once we decamped from the Isaac Newton we used the County Arms on the opposite side of the road (still there) and the Cow and Calf (replaced by flats) on the corner of Pound HIll. In my time there the Cow and Calf was a small, slightly tatty and disreputable Irish pub.

Steve: Now that brings me onto another technical question. What is the best way to sling the lathe for lifting? Are there specific slinging points, or it is a case of aranging the slings in a sensible manner and hoping for the best?

Regards,

Andrew

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