Any Chemists (rust)

[Nick_GParticipant @nick_g]

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No specific requirement myself but a friend of mine has used this. **LINK**

Tells me it's brilliant stuff providing parts have been degreased. Not harmful to ones hands, does not effect paint etc. But most of all …………… Does what it says.!

He asked me if I knew how it worked. I didn't, but said I would ask here as somebody would probably know what the base action was.

(It is available considerably cheaper from other vendors. I just googled that link)

Nick

[Nick_GParticipant @nick_g]

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

**LINK**

http://www.evapo-rust.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/Evapo-Rust-Safety-Data-Sheet-2015.pdf

Tells us that it's a mix of 'Detergent' and 'Chelating Agent' [whatever that might be],

MichaelG.

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Edit: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chelation

Edit: https://hubpages.com/technology/Rust-removal-by-chelation

 

Edited By Michael Gilligan on 18/04/2017 07:04:04

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

Tsk, I reviewed Evaporust in MEW.

It was really good, yes it depends on chelation to suck up the rust, rater than an acid action so ideal for those of a sensitive disposition.

Neil

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Posted by Neil Wyatt on 18/04/2017 07:08:30:

Tsk, I reviewed Evaporust in MEW.

It was really good, yes it depends on chelation to suck up the rust, rater than an acid action so ideal for those of a sensitive disposition.

Neil

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I note that; aside from the water [>83% of the product] the ingredients and their cncentrations are 'secret'.

But would just mention that detergents are available very cheaply, and that Citric Acid and Oxalic Acid are commonly used chelating agents.

MichaelG.

[Michael Cox 1Participant @michaelcox1]

Whilst they are chelating agents oxalic and citric acids are also acids and they will attack steel and etch the surface albeit relatively slowly. However, there are chelating agents, such as sodium EDTA (ethylene diamine tetraacetic acid) which are neutral salts that do not attack steel surfaces but which will chelate and dissolve metal oxides. I suspect that these may be the active ingredient in Evaporust.

Mike

[not done it yetParticipant @notdoneityet]

Not much acid in there. Unless it is strongly buffered!

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

My guess is EDTA. We use3d to play with it back when I was in sixth form. Not that I can remember exactly what we did…

Below is the concluding part of my review. I think the significant thing is that, unlike other approaches I've used, if just left to dry the parts don't develop a film of surface rust.

Neil

Last weekend I was doing some work on the car, and pulled out everything I could find failing to find a small 8mm socket. I even went though my old toolbox, which at one point had two inches of water in it, it was full of old sockets and other bits, from the totally rusty to the simple tarnished. I sorted the actual tools from the old spark plugs, cylinder bolts and GOKW and dumped them in the bath. Photograph 9 shows the various bits after just three hours. If my wife is reading this they are on one of MY old towels!

On a roll, I found a couple of old nail pullers, completely brown with rust and threw them in. Not only did they come up nicely (photo 10), but I discovered that one of them was made in Cannock, not far from here in South Staffordshire (photo 11). The lads are now regularly supplying me with rusty screwdrivers and the like and the original gallon or so of Evapo-Rust is still going strong. When it eventually wears out (it turns black), I will certainly get some more.

So you have probably realised I am very pleased with Evapo-Rust’s performance, but it’s worth explaining why it is different. Instead of being acid or alkali-based, Evapo-Rust relies on a chemical process of ‘selective chelation’. My school chemistry tells me that this means a large molecule that grabs hold of metals and holds them in solution. Evapo-Rust bonds to the iron in rust, but not in steel and it does not attack plastic, brass, aluminium and other metals or glass. It does dissolve light films of grease and oil (they recommend cleaning off heavy grease coatings) and it did notice that it got quite a lot of non-rust gunk as well as removing the rust.

The product is non-toxic and biodegradable (I have the material safety data sheet), and can be disposed of down the sewer without ill effects. This is a major benefit over the strong-acid based rust treatments – I’d far rather have a gallon of it slopping about in a corner of the workshop.

Compared to electrolytic removal, it is much less messing about and there are no nagging doubts about hydrogen embrittlement. Perhaps the biggest plus here is that you don’t get that almost instant return of rust that happens to some electrolytic cleaned steels.

That leaves a comparison with my cheap-cola alternative, in which case the big difference is the rate at which Evapo-Rust works – it takes hours when the fizzy pop approach takes several days.

I found one unusual after-effect of Evapo-Rust, it’s that treated items have a slightly sticky feel due to the film left behind. As this is an effective anti-rust treatment, I’m not complaining and it is easily washed off – but in this case I would suggest oiling or otherwise treating the item to stop the clean surface rusting again.

[Nick_GParticipant @nick_g]

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Thanks for the replies guy's.

I wonder in it would 'save' that rusty Myford on ebay that was the topic of a thread the other day.

Nick

[EugeneParticipant @eugene]

EDTA is a fair guess, but I'd expect to see other stuff in there; leaving a sticky film behind isn't an EDTA characteristic.

In industrial mixtures I've made up baths that included heptonates and gluconates  as the chelators, plus caustic soda for electrical conductivity (not required in an immersion process like Evapo-Rust.) There might even be phophonates present in Evapo-Rust, they are useful chelates and rust inhibitors. A good dollop of sodium cyanide helps a lot too, but I don't see that on the MSDS!

When I come to use Evapo-Rust in a few months time (can't be bothered to make my own) I'll follow up with a de-watering oil. These give good interstage protection and do get the water out of nooks and crannies which taking the parts out of the bath and parking them in a corner won't.  Pong a bit mind.

Eug

 

Edited By Eugene on 18/04/2017 09:54:08

[MWParticipant @mw27036]

Posted by Nick_G on 18/04/2017 09:15:48:

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Thanks for the replies guy's.

I wonder in it would 'save' that rusty Myford on ebay that was the topic of a thread the other day.

Nick

No I think it's still destined for the aquarium.

Michael W

[David Standing 1Participant @davidstanding1]

Posted by Michael-w on 18/04/2017 11:21:41:

Posted by Nick_G on 18/04/2017 09:15:48:

.

Thanks for the replies guy's.

I wonder in it would 'save' that rusty Myford on ebay that was the topic of a thread the other day.

Nick

No I think it's still destined for the aquarium.

Michael W

It can keep the Super Adept company .

[David Standing 1Participant @davidstanding1]

But seriously, I have a whole tote tray full of Clarkson tool cutter attachments that are seriously rusty, I have just ordered 5L of the Frost's Evaporust to try out on them, so thanks Nick for the heads up .

[Nick_GParticipant @nick_g]

.

Let us have an update of results please David.

Nick

[Martin King 2Participant @martinking2]

Hi Guys,

This is kid of on topic so please forgive the slight deviation. My continual problem is keeping tools stored before sale but after preparation in good clean rust free condition.

By far and away the best product for this comes from a company that sells tiny little pots of Vapour Phase Imhibitor, these are a small piece of sponge with some of the magic product on it enough to just dampen a bit of sponge about an inch square and 1/4" thick, I doubt in total there is 1/2 a cc if even that. Buying these by the 10 is still the eyewatering amount of £30 odd quid. It is a GREAT product but the cost of a litre of this ingredient must rival plutonium! I am all for people making a reasonable margin but his seems way OTT

Product name witheld

What is it that makes this stuff soooo expensive?

There must be a generic VPI chemical? How does VPI exactly work?

I have had to stop using it and now use mothballs in old Shippams paste jars which works pretty well but its getting harder and harder to catch the moths………

Cheers,

Martin

[David Standing 1Participant @davidstanding1]

Posted by Nick_G on 18/04/2017 14:26:28:

.

Let us have an update of results please David.

Nick

Nick

Will do happily, but i'm not sure where it might fall on my to do list, which is vast!

I have a 5m shed to build from scratch, then empty my garden toolshed and refelt the roof, then put all the non garden stuff from the toolshed, and all the woodworking stuff from my garage, into the new shed.

This then gives me room in my garage to finally set out the two lathes, two millling machines, Clarkson tool cutter grinder, two pillar drills and a linisher that are just in the corner in a jumble – but before I set these up I have to put a new consumer unit in the garage and totally rewire it, so I can run three machines from a rotary converter.

That's my 2017 taken care of! .

[David Standing 1Participant @davidstanding1]

Posted by Martin King 2 on 18/04/2017 16:39:20:

Hi Guys,

This is kid of on topic so please forgive the slight deviation. My continual problem is keeping tools stored before sale but after preparation in good clean rust free condition.

By far and away the best product for this comes from a company that sells tiny little pots of Vapour Phase Imhibitor, these are a small piece of sponge with some of the magic product on it enough to just dampen a bit of sponge about an inch square and 1/4" thick, I doubt in total there is 1/2 a cc if even that. Buying these by the 10 is still the eyewatering amount of £30 odd quid. It is a GREAT product but the cost of a litre of this ingredient must rival plutonium! I am all for people making a reasonable margin but his seems way OTT

Product name witheld

What is it that makes this stuff soooo expensive?

There must be a generic VPI chemical? How does VPI exactly work?

I have had to stop using it and now use mothballs in old Shippams paste jars which works pretty well but its getting harder and harder to catch the moths………

Cheers,

Martin

 

Martin

I know exactly the ones you mean, because I use them too. Excellent, but expensive.

You can also use Napier VP90, a product primarily for stopping guns going rusty, I suspect it has the same active ingredient as the little pots – the Napier ones are sachets around 75mm square, and will probably protect a bigger area.

Edited By David Standing 1 on 18/04/2017 18:36:59

[Mark RandParticipant @markrand96270]

The active ingredient in the VPI products may well be sodium benzoate or another benzoate. Camphor is alleged to work as well, but it's not so good if you object to your products smelling of moth-balls.

I've tried some camphor blocks in my file draw but it's inconclusive, since the workshop normally has a low humidity and a temperature that rarely changes by more than 3°C in 24 hours. Files haven't gone rusty though!

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

The chemicals used as VCIs seem to be obscure and there's a lack of recipes out there.

On the other hand, it appears an open jar of molasses might do the job, according to this patent:

http://www.google.co.uk/patents/US8795589

Add 5% by weight of ammonium hydroxide for even better results but "the results for molasses alone were acceptable".

Edited By Neil Wyatt on 18/04/2017 20:22:41

[Dave Smith the 16thParticipant @davesmiththe16th]

Tubalcain on youtube has done some rust removal videos recently, he used molasses and it appears to work. A bit slow but it appears safe.

I have tinkered with electrolytic rust removal and it works well, spotted an article that emphasised not to use bicarbonate of soda but soda crystals. Curious as to why i had to try it and it still worked. Took a bit longer but fine.

The big problem is its an instant rust magnet, blink and the part is rusty again.

 

PS. which edition did you review it?  Thanks

 

Edited By Dave Smith the 16th on 18/04/2017 20:59:47

[peak4Participant @peak4]

Has anyone here tried Evaporust on the inside of motorcycle petrol tanks, prior to sealing them from ethanol attack?

[BazyleParticipant @bazyle]

Posted by Neil Wyatt on 18/04/2017 20:20:37:

Add 5% by weight of ammonium hydroxide for even better results but "the results for molasses alone were acceptable".

One problem can be acidic perspiration after handling the newly cleaned metal. If a bit of ammonia can be released as a vapour it will settle on the item and neutralise the acid.

[Martin King 2Participant @martinking2]

Posted by Mark Rand on 18/04/2017 20:01:00:

The active ingredient in the VPI products may well be sodium benzoate or another benzoate. Camphor is alleged to work as well, but it's not so good if you object to your products smelling of moth-balls.

I've tried some camphor blocks in my file draw but it's inconclusive, since the workshop normally has a low humidity and a temperature that rarely changes by more than 3°C in 24 hours. Files haven't gone rusty though!

Hi Mark, On reading your link it would appear that the sodium benzoate is useful as an anti corrosion product in th LIQUID phase, not Vapour? That is impregnated papers or direct application to the product not just in a closed container or drawer which is how the expensive stuff works. I have had a closed drawer fully protected fo about 2 years, obvioulsy continual opening and shutting reduces this time enormously and hence increase the expense.

Hoping Michael G will come in on this with chapter and verse!

Cheers, Martin

[Nick_GParticipant @nick_g]

Posted by peak4 on 18/04/2017 21:52:21:

Has anyone here tried Evaporust on the inside of motorcycle petrol tanks, prior to sealing them from ethanol attack?

.

Yes.

It was my friend doing such that caused him to be so impressed with the product and thus me making the original post.

Nick

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Posted by Martin King 2 on 18/04/2017 22:32:09:

 

[…]

Hoping Michael G will come in on this with chapter and verse!

Cheers, Martin

.

Martin,

I do sometimes enjoy the challenge of unearthing information [especially it's of potential use to me] … but I felt disinclined when I read your opening post:

>>> Product name witheld

>>> What is it that makes this stuff soooo expensive?

>>> There must be a generic VPI chemical? How does VPI exactly work?

By far the best way of starting the hunt is to look for the MSDS for a named product.

MichaelG.

.

Edit: This doesn't really tell us much: but it's a start

http://www.tribotec.se/en/vci-corrosion-protection/what-is-vpci/

 

Edited By Michael Gilligan on 18/04/2017 23:55:33

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