Amadeal AMABL210E Review – Any Requests?

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

I have just taken delivery of an AMABL210E from Amadeal with the intention of doing a review to go in ME&W. This is the Brushless motor equiped machine with the big 38mm bore spindle and also an ELS ( Electronic Lead Screw) fitted as standard.

If anyone has a request for anything they would like me to cover then post here.

[John HinkleyParticipant @johnhinkley26699]

Yes please, Jason.  Off the top of my head, I would be particularly interested in the screw cutting facility and how it compares with the various commercial and home-brewed ELS systems available.  For example, can it be used to thread up to a shoulder with ease and reliability? Can it be set up to cut threads away from a shoulder for left hand threads, for example? Is there any form of semi-automatic thread cutting?  What is the full choice of threads available?

Presumably you will be covering the fit and finish of the machine as a matter of course.

John

[DiogenesParticipant @diogenes]

Yes this^

What size work do(es) the chuck(s) pass?

What comes with it – centres? faceplate? steadies? ..if not are they all available as extras/in a package?

Does it lend itself to other engineering lash-ups processes i.e. boring on the table / vertical slide?

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Thanks Chaps. I was likely going to do the article covering two main areas, firstly the lathe in general which would cover Diogenes’ points all of which I had intended to cover. The second half would concentrate on the ELS and the various functions that it has. Ive only had a quick play but soon worked it out and the answer to John’s points would seem to be Yes, Yes, Yes and anything within reason including BA. Now need to read the instructions!

[Robert Atkinson 2Participant @robertatkinson2]

The location of the E-Stop is interesting. Looks like it may be an add-on with the chuck guard.
Question: How easy is it to defeat the chuck guard interlock?
It looks like you could loosen two cap-head screws, slide the cover off and turn the shaft.

Reaching past the chuck to hit the E-Stop is not a great idea. And I’m a leftie. A right handed person might reach across the chuck.

Question: What is the readability of the two (look like LCD) displays? Particuarly the lower one on the vertical panel. What sort of angular range are they easily read?

Question: Is there a protective “window” over the lower display? Are it and the push-buttons below it sealled aginst fluids?
It looks like it is just a standard 16×2 LCD poked through the panel. That won’t last long in a worksop environment.

Robert.

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

The e-stop location is quite common on the imported machines and has been like that for a number of years, my Warco which is now 17 years old has the same arrangement.

Yes the chuck guard can be over ridden quite easily if the individual decides they don’t want it. Again took it off my Warco years ago and only fit it on the odd occasion when the chips are flying due to the setup. but at least there is a guard if you want it unlike all those Myfords, Boxfords, Harrisons, Colchesters etc that are in home use without a chuck guard let alone leadscrew cover or chip guard on the tool post.

I’m right handed and not had any problems hitting the e-stop or working the on/off buttons which are all part of the same NVR switch. Again many an old hobby lathe does not have an e-stop.

I raised the point about the screen visibility in an old thread and will include that in my review. Will look at the screen protection. As for fluids how many of us are regularly using cheap (or expensive) digital callipers that are not IP rated against fluids without any problems.

[BazyleParticipant @bazyle]

Is there a computer interface to access the stepper and read the spindle rotation for potential CNC modification?

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

I’m sure it would be possible to gain access to the rotary encoder which is what reads the lathe spindle position not the stepper.

[JasonB]

On JasonB Said:

<SNIP>I raised the point about the screen visibility in an old thread and will include that in my review. Will look at the screen protection. As for fluids how many of us are regularly using cheap (or expensive) digital callipers that are not IP rated against fluids without any problems.

All the digital calipers I’ve seen have had some kind of cover over the LCD even if it’s just a bit of polystyrene. The LCD modules have the front polariser exposed and a thin steel frame. liquid on the front can get into the conductive rubber “zebra strip” interconnects as well as damaging the polariser.

Robert.

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

My reply related to your comment about the buttons and fluid, not the screen which I said I would look into

Are it and the push-buttons below it sealled aginst fluids?

I doubt many of these machines will get used with flood coolant. If someone were to spill a pot of coolant/lubricant I would say it is more likely to get in around the edge of the front metal panels than the buttons.

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

It would be helpful, Jason, if you could obtain a list [and indicative prices] of the various electronic modules.

I’m sure most of us have seen items of ‘consumer electronics’ being beyond economic repair just because [for example] a remote control has failed.

The use of ELS seems like a ‘no brainer’ good idea … until it goes wrong.

MichaelG.

[Clive Brown 1Participant @clivebrown1]

I think MichaelG has a point Don’t want to appear a luddite but my Boxford has been in my possesion for 50 years and all of the feed and screw-cutting components have worked faultessly over that time. (Sorry. thread drift).

[BazyleParticipant @bazyle]

If the mechanical parts are reasonable the sensible thing to do with the electronics is to put it on a board with a connector having a known long life reputation. Then the OEM should have a long term plan – two decades – for supplying replacements and upgrades that can be easily swapped out by electrically unskilled owners.
Of course what they will actually do is keep finding corners to cut to reduce production costs. Then in 10 years lots of these lathes will be appearing ‘for spares’ with a difficult repair option but none of the mechanics to retrofit changewheels. Sad.

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

As I see it all the parts are readily available on the net and as these machines become more common place the supply of “spares” will be even easier to come by. A new stepper motor, driver or power supply for these lathes is just as easy to come by as similar items for a 3D printer yet people seem happy to buy those with all the electronics they contain.

I’ve not heard a people with home brew ELSs having problems or those with electronically controlled rotary tables which have been around for longer which use similar components.

I will have a look deeper inside to see if the connections are by plug or as I suspect simple screwblocks. The simple screw arrangement does make it easier to source spares as you don’t have to find steppers or encoders with a suitable connector just the bare wires as they all come with as standard.

I expect 50yrs ago there were also luddites that said they would never give up there treddle lathes when offered a Boxford or any lathe with a motor stating that they could always turn something by gas light if there was a powercut or the motor failed😉

Having actually seen inside the end cover of one I don’t see any reason why a set of changewheels could not be retro fitted along with a banjo should the owner wish to change. A whole ELS setup similar to what is on this machine can be bought as a retrofit “kit” to replace a geartrain so not too hard to reverse engineer, could probably 3D print the gears and banjo.

I suspect these machines are just the standard big bore 210 machines with the ELS fitted instead of the banjo and gears so you could always buy a banjo as a spare for that lathe or just buy the whole AMABL210 with traditional gears if you did not want an ELS in which case just read the first part of the article.

 

Well I cut several threads yesterday in steel as well as trying out a few of the other features, I’m quite impressed and can see why others who have fitted an ELS also like them. It also offers the features that I see people having to make or buy such as additional change wheels, mandrel handle, screwcutting clutches, bed stops, automatic returns, dro, etc

[Adrian R2Participant @adrianr2]

Does it come with a wiring diagram and any protocol documentation to permit use of a third party control interface?

I’m not keen on fiddly little displays, would prefer a big coloured screen e.g. TouchDRO style app on a customer supplied tablet.

[Tony Pratt 1Participant @tonypratt1]

My eyesight degeneration due to age makes it difficult to see well enough for fine lathe work these days but the one thing I can see clearly is the ‘fiddly little display’ on my Clough42 inspired ELS.

Tony

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

Judging by the photo, Jason is reviewing a typical Far Eastern hobby lathe that’s been upgraded with a brushless motor and an electronic lead-screw.  Waste of time reprising the pros and cons of hobby versus industrial lathes: it’s a hobby lathe!  Likewise,  brushless motors are currently the best option available, so Jason need not spend a lot of time explaining why.

The main benefit of the AMABL210E is it’s built-in Electronic Leadscrew.  ELS are a popular hobby modification, and they are common as muck on CNC lathes.    ELS isn’t new technology, it’s an established technology being applied to hobby equipment because costs have dropped enough to make that possible.  Stepper motors and microcontrollers have been mainstream for 40 years.  I don’t think Jason should waste time explaining that.

ELS advantages are obvious: no messing with change-gears, and, unlike a mechanical gearbox they aren’t constrained to common ratios.  Setting them up ought to be considerably simpler and faster than a geared system, and potentially less error prone, though that depends on how the user interface is programmed.  Simple buttons, or a deeply nested menu system?

Whether or not an ELS is of value depends on how often it’s used!  Taking myself as an example before illness stopped play, I don’t lathe cut threads all that often, and they are almost all metric.   The time taken setting up change gears to cut a thread on my manual lathe is considerable, but doesn’t matter to me much, because I don’t cut lots of threads, and rarely work against the clock.   Your workshop might be completely different, needing to cut many different threads in a hurry.  Or the operator might wish to avoid the faff of understanding those change gear tables!   When evaluating equipment it’s important for purchasers to be clear about their requirements, typically dividing them into Musts and Shoulds.   Don’t buy if a must isn’t satisfied, and don’t waste money on costly features that might be useful!   No need for me to rush to fit an ELS, but the convenience is tempting if I was buying a new lathe.

A professional review follows a template and is scored against requirements,.   Jason can’t be expected to address our individual requirements or prejudices because he doesn’t know what they are!  However, might be useful to follow the usual template headings:

• Features – what the ELS provides, presumably most common Imperial and Metric threads, possibly BA, maybe arbitrary pitches.  Up to shoulder etc.   How much is automatic, and how much needs a lively operator!
• Trustworthy – during a session,  does the lathe thread consistently and without mishaviours such as crashing into the headstock?
• Reliability – longer term, will the ELS last?  Impossible to establish in a short trial, but Jason might comment on how hot the electronics get, and how exposed they are to swarf, liquids and clumsy operators!   Might find out about Spares availability.
• Usability – intuitively easy to drive, or complicated, requiring much swotting and a manual!
• Interoperability – can it be connected to an external computer.
• Cost of Ownership (time and/or money)
  • of adopting the technology – buying the machine and learning how to use it
  • job set up time
  • licences
  • maintenance

The cost of ELS and CNC were discussed at a SMEE meeting recently, it being noted that:

• CNC is a significant investment requiring CAD and milling skills and costly machinery.  3D-printing in plastic is far less onerous than 3D-cutting metal.  Adopting CNC is a major investment, high risk.
• ELS is much cheaper and straightforward – a more convenient way of doing an existing turning operation, not a major investment.   Low risk.   I’d expect Jason to confirm this is true, and it will be very interesting if he finds otherwise.

I don’t think Jason should entangle himself in the old versus new debate.   New buyers are more likely to buy ELS than established workshops.  Therefore no need for Jason to convert traditionalists by explaining why:

• electronics are more reliable than mechanical solutions.
• it’s easier to replace electronics than it is to fix clapped out machine tools.
• it’s not necessarily sensible to own tools that last 60+ years.  Longevity is only one feature, and is often desirable rather than mandatory…

Dave

 

[John HaineParticipant @johnhaine32865]

Deeply unimpressive video.  Wasted opportunity I think, if they’d added an axis drive to the cross slide and built a few suitable macros they could have  threading with auto infeed and full cnc option.

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Yes the video is poor and it was my comments about that which prompted the review and I wil also make a video that better shows what it can do.

Weiss have not wasted the oppertunity as they have other lathes with what you mention that I have posted about here before it is just that none of the UK suppliers have them in their range. have a look at their video for the EL300 and EL250

Just checked and absolutely no problem to swap out a few parts and make a backwards move to fit a banjo and gears. Connections are by screwed block so any stepper or encoder could be fitted if replacements are needed, no harder than wiring a 3 pin mains plug.

 

I’ve not found visability of the screen an issue, even after Robert’s query when I thought about it a bit more. Easy to see and operate where it is and I have probably got the lathe 75-100mm lower than the usual recommended elbow height.

No detailed wiring etc if you wanted to change the screen but as Robert’s comments it is a generic 2 x 16 and a separate component on teh board so could probably be changed. To put it into prospective the screen font is harder to read than my Digi caliper or mobile phone and the buttons are bigger than both. Yes a bigger screen may be nice but what is there is perfectly usable.

 

But then again with the size of the current build anything seems big😎😎

[Nicholas FarrParticipant @nicholasfarr14254]

Hi. yes it’s interesting, and Warco have a 250 V with an ELS, coming in September, and I was asked if I would like one of those, when I pre-ordered a standard 250 V, but it is well over my budget, and is a shade to long anyway for the space I have, which is where my 220 one is, and even with a trade in for my 220, the price is still more than my budget, but I don’t do an awful lot of screw cutting anyway.

Regards Nick.

 

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

I don’t have  agreat need for screwcutting either but I can see several advantages with this over gears which I will keep for the article.

Probably of more use is the “automatic turning” which is similar to the tread cutting as it moves the tool along at a cutting feedrate by a set distance and then back to the beginning where you put on the next cut and away it goes again. Great for blind bores or just mundane repetative boring or turning to form a spigot.

Might also work on the 250 to run the crossfeed?

[Robert Atkinson 2Participant @robertatkinson2]

From Jason’s photos the LCD is clearly a standard one designed for viewing at 90 degrees “straight on”. On the image from a standing perspective (with caliper) it has low contrast and is washed out compared to the head on shots. Not impossible to read from above but not as clear. The contrast can change with temperature as well. It could really do with being mounted at an angle. It also has no protection.
It’s a shame it’s not mounted on the panel that has the RPM display. It could replace that display if they put a RPM readout on the ELS display. It seems that the ELS has been added on rather than designed in.
A 3D printed angled bezel with a acrylic window for the LCD would be a big improvement.

Robert

[Nicholas FarrParticipant @nicholasfarr14254]

Hi JasonB, I understand what you are saying about the ELS being able to be used for the feedrate and a set distance etc. I dare sat this type of machine will probably become more popular, and maybe become cheaper, and maybe next year I might get one to replace my Boxford, if funds allow.

Regards Nick.

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

I’ll try and measure the angle tomorrow Robert but I would say it is quite easily read looking down at 45deg which would be a total  90deg view angle if the same from below. Or maybe it is one of those that has the view angle specified by the hours of the clock and designed for viewing from above, 12 O’clock I think?

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Well I had to go and confirm it.

Certainly seems to be one of the 12 o’clock type screens designed to be viewed from above. The give away is the colour inversion. At the start of the video the screen is light with dark characters due to inversion. As I move up they change to the correct light on dark and stay that way as I carry on up to hearly looking straight down.

Screen shot at the end is how I have been standing to operate the buttons. As you can see I’m looking down at 55deg and have no problem reading the screen. Also as I said earlier the lathe is quite a bit below elbow height so if setup for my use the angle would be at least 10deg less.

Plus side of it being on a vertical surface is it won’t get as wet when you spill a mug of tea over it, swarf and cast iron dust also less likely to land on the screen or around the buttons. So maybe these Chinese are not so daft.

[Author]

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