A model engineer gone wrong?

[Mike PooleParticipant @mikepoole82104]

Posted by Neil Wyatt on 17/11/2017 21:25:42:

Posted by Mike Poole on 17/11/2017 20:54:05:

my colleagues comment on how cool I am even when a major production breakdown has 30 suits in attendance.

"If you can keep your head when all a round you are losing theirs – ask yourself, am I missing something?"

Neil

I have found that panic doesn't fix anything but applying a logical fault finding process will. The people panicking are the ones who don't understand what is happening and don't have anything useful to contribute.

Mike

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

'twas humour Mike

[Barnaby WildeParticipant @barnabywilde70941]

Posted by Andrew Tinsley on 16/11/2017 10:48:39:

Firearms control in this country is one of the tightest in the world and I have no quibble with that. I would like to continue with the sport that I have done for 50 years. Banning firearms completely would not solve the criminal use of firearms. It would simply deprive those law abiding shooters of their sport.

Andrew.

It took me 6mths to get my licence for my pistols & my first pistol cost £1200. The club I belonged to insisted that pistols be kept on the club premises.

Post Dunblane, I can make a phone call & purchase a similar pistol next day for £500.

Prohibition does not work, it never has. It's purpose seems solely to satisfy the great unwashed whilst having the exact opposite effect.

[not done it yetParticipant @notdoneityet]

£1200-500. Keep it in perspective – there is a quality difference between a good target pistol and a potentially use-once low-life weapon. I doubt the supply of criminal ammunition is a cheap commodity, mind.

But, yes, the availability of uncontrolled weapons and ammunition is rediculous. Law abiding citizens keep their guns and ammo locked away securely, whereas the criminals seem to often carry theirs around in their pockets.

While I might disagree with the way firearms can be owned in the US, theft (pikey style) is virtually nonexistent. I recall someone telling me they saw a notice at the entrance to a tractor dealership lot which read something like ' WARNING. If you are here at night you may still be here in the morning'. A simple warning that worked.

[Alan Johnson 7Participant @alanjohnson7]

Back to the beginning (of the post). Model engineers manufacturing firearms etc. Evelyn Ernest Owen, the Australian who designed the Owen Gun ( a machine carbine) in World War II manufactured his first machine gun in his father's shed. Tools at his disposal: handtools and a drillpress – hand cranked from memory. It worked really well! I don't think model engineers need to worry about owning a lathe! Owning a hacksaw and a set of drill bits …… well thats different!

[Barnaby WildeParticipant @barnabywilde70941]

Posted by not done it yet on 18/11/2017 06:51:00:

£1200-500. Keep it in perspective – there is a quality difference between a good target pistol and a potentially use-once low-life weapon. I doubt the supply of criminal ammunition is a cheap commodity, mind.

I can buy a Baikal pistol for £500, it's the going rate in my nearest city. How many does Sir require?

You probably would be safer stood in front of one though !

[Barnaby WildeParticipant @barnabywilde70941]

I've sort of half heard this . . . & it's probably a load of nonsense . . . but there are underground whispers that elements of the powerful & resourceful NRA were/are involved in the funding of projects to enable simple firearms to be produced in small workshops throughout the US should the need arise . . . !

Without naming names, it's said that a very popular & capable CNC milling machine, along with the virtually 'freeware' controller software were born this way !

[Mick B1Participant @mickb1]

Posted by Mick Charity on 18/11/2017 04:44:34:

It took me 6mths to get my licence for my pistols & my first pistol cost £1200. The club I belonged to insisted that pistols be kept on the club premises.

Post Dunblane, I can make a phone call & purchase a similar pistol next day for £500.

Prohibition does not work, it never has. It's purpose seems solely to satisfy the great unwashed whilst having the exact opposite effect.

That was not my experience at all. I had to go through probation, but in 1981 my first pistol cost me just over £200 and it was a 15-shot 9mm CZ75, regarded as one of the best battle pistols available. I kept it and its ammunition at home and it struck me as an enormous act of trust by society that I was permitted to do so. I gave up pistol shooting in 1989 and sold the 5 weapons I had by then.

Both Hungerford and Dunblane were perpetuated by licenced FAC holders who at some time or another had been regarded as trustworthy, and nobody really knows what it was that made that misplaced. It's perfectly true that both in the past and even now stable societies have existed where the risks associated with individual gun ownership are low – but it's also clear that something has gone wrong with the cohesion of individuals and society in many countries that has made this no longer the case.

It would certainly be better to address the social issues if anybody could find a way to do that – it's because those are controversial, obscure and political that the less-effective Plan B of prohibition always surfaces.

[Clive HartlandParticipant @clivehartland94829]

The Swiss States deem that every man upto about 75 keeps a rifle and ammunition at home in case of National emergencies! He will attend a shooting session perhaps twice a year. Gun crime is low in Switzerland. It's Citizens are trusted. I came out of the Hotel and stacked along the wall beside the entrance were automatic rifles and machine guns, while the soldiers were inside getting their breakfast including a liter of beer.

Every road and pass in Switzerland has defense points on bends and hills, rated for artillery and tanks.

The Governments that rule this country are fearful of a Citizen coup! they do not trust us at all. Whereas the criminals are happy to smuggle, rent or make weapons. A worthwhile pastime, shooting long range and Pistol shooting, with re-loading as well was all killed off by knee jerk reaction by the various Governments, no concessions at all except for Black Powder pistols! They seek all the time to restrain or ban any thing seen as a threat and do not trust gun owners yet the killings and robberies continue long after all legal guns are banned and removed. Shallow thinking does not enhance trust of the people in this way. Increase drastically the sentences, their excuse is that the prisons will become overcrowded and the Human Rights will step in. No, put them to work in a quarry breaking rocks on an island where it is cold and wet, allow them the minimum concessions, only then will I believe what they say!

As has been mentioned it is the authorities who are at fault creating implausible laws etc.Whereas the criminal has no limit and does not care. The Police cannot cope with the firearms data and there is NO National listing of firearms, It takes more than 6 months to get a renewal of a certificate as they now want Doctors to be involved, how many of you ever see the same Dr. ? In 17 years I have not seen the same Dr. In a controlled range environment I have introduced people to various forms of shooting and you soon learn what people are like. My whistle and stern telling off sorted many things out as a Training Officer. Range safety and Discipline are very important. It cost the Government Millions in compensation for guns and accessories and also Dealers obtained compensation for stocks running into millions as well. They will not give a figure as it would horrify you, that is for their own safety mind! Estmates were put at just under a Billion.

[RobinParticipant @robin]

Golly gosh, am I in trouble?

[Mick B1Participant @mickb1]

Posted by Robin on 18/11/2017 15:32:00:

Golly gosh, am I in trouble?

Well they'll *probably* let the miquelet and wheel-locks go, but are those percussion revolvers repro or antique?

Look like they ain't got no nipples from 'ere.

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

I'm afraid the statistics don't support the belief that gun-crime hasn't fallen as a result of stronger gun control in the UK.

Even more worrying are the 2010/2011 figures for misappropriations. In that year 2534 firearms were misappropriated. Of those nearly half were taken from private owners. (1590 were taken from residential premises and 116 from private cars.) In comparison the military lost none and gun clubs 3. This suggests that private owners can't or don't secure their weapons, and by failing to do so put weapons into criminal hands. It also suggests that owning a gun does not protect you from thieves.

I'm not anti-gun on principle. What changed my mind was mainly the series of massacres of innocents here and abroad. I must also say that many of the ill-considered arguments made in favour of gun-freedom have reduced my confidence in hobbyists. Even worse, some pro-gun opinions are completely unacceptable. Imagine how painful it must be for a Sandy Hook parent to be told that their child's murder was either faked or a government plot intended to blacken gun owners? Imagine being a bereaved parent persecuted on social media by nutters like the Sandy Hook Truther Movement.

Sorry gun owners, but if you want to get my vote you have to explain how you will protect the rest of us.

Dave

[mark costello 1Participant @markcostello1]

If You think the sign that says,"You will be found in the morning" raises an eyebrow how about the one that says, "If You can read this sign You ARE in range!"

[nigel jones 5Participant @nigeljones5]

To highlight the massive differences in gun culture (and this is the truth) when visiting family in West Chester USA we went for a look at a new upmarket housing development. Being from the UK I was struck by the complete lack of boundry fences from one large house to another. Upon enquiring why there were non I was reminded that this area had an extremely low crime rate. I couldnt see the link ans was told very matter of fact that the lack of fencing enabled an almost uninterrupted line of fire. To them this was just plain common sense. I will stick to my fences , hedgerows and baseball bat thanks.

[Martin DowingParticipant @martindowing58466]

You may like it or not, but the UK is mooving towards a state where anything and everything of use is legislated as dangerous and illegal and as many activities as possible are tightly regulated or (preferably) legislated out of existence.

So perhaps within few years any lathe/mill owners may well have to register their activities with authorities and some if not all of machines (possibly CNC type and also 3D printers) may well get banned as exceedingly dangerous in private hands.

Already those with interests in chemistry have huge difficulties with purchasing simple chemicals even if these are *not* listed as drugs or explosives, or their precursors. So for example nearly all solvents are "toxics".

Somehow I suspect that model engineers and later IT and radio/GSM geeks will end up with their hobbies curtailed.

So I would not be surprised if within a decade or so before anyone of you have sexual intercourse with your wife/GF he will need to secure "Sexual Intercourse Consent Form" crossigned by solicitor. Not doing so will open you to rape investigation.

We are living in society where mediocrity and mindlessness and also complete innumeracy and outright stupidity are the most sought after qualities and any useful skill is vieved with increasing suspicion. All what is needed are mindless mobs of consumers going into debt and spending money as if there is no tommorow. Others are dangerous freaks.

Another question is, how long this type of society can last but all up to date evidence shows that for time being it is well and kicking.

Martin

 

 

 

Edited By Martin Dowing on 19/11/2017 10:19:33

[vintagengineerParticipant @vintagengineer]

Try looking on Amazon and the web! I am stunned by the amount of chemicals you can buy and get posted to your home address!

Posted by Martin Dowing on 19/11/2017 10:18:13:

Already those with interests in chemistry have huge difficulties with purchasing simple chemicals even if these are *not* listed as drugs or explosives, or their precursors. So for example nearly all solvents are "toxics".

[Mick B1Participant @mickb1]

Posted by Martin Dowing on 19/11/2017 10:18:13:

You may like it or not, but the UK is mooving towards a state where anything and everything of use is legislated as dangerous and illegal and as many activities as possible are tightly regulated or (preferably) legislated out of existence.

…

And there are folk who'll put together a conspiracy theory from a bus timetable.

[Martin DowingParticipant @martindowing58466]

Yes, you can get certain chemicals over the web, but the same chemicals about 10 years ago could easily be purchased from regular industrial suppliers without undue difficulties. For example components for electroless nickel plating are now very difficult to purchase and ready to use sets are producing inferior results and on the top of it are unduly expensive.

Martin

[RobinParticipant @robin]

I bought a litre of chloroform on eBay from Italy. The goods were in free circulation within the EU so one bottle was duly delivered. OTOH, the last inch of tricho in my old RS Solvent Cleaner can is almost too precious to use. I still have 2 empty marmalade pots with golliwogs on the side.

[Martin DowingParticipant @martindowing58466]

@Robin,

Isn't it strange that some basic degreaser (chloroform) is to be imported from Italy? That for something worth few pounds you have to pay God knows how much (including p&p)?

BTW, if it is used for degreasing or paint stripping I would recommend dichloromethane.

[Ian S CParticipant @iansc]

There's some Golliwog broaches around here somewhere, unless little sister has them at her place.

Ian S C

[RobinParticipant @robin]

If push comes to shove I think you can make your own chloroform using acetone and hypochlorite. It has the wonderful property that it can dissolve Perspex/Lucite to give a transparent glue line.

[Martin DowingParticipant @martindowing58466]

@ Robin,

Hey, acetone may well also be banned, this time because some morons are mixing it with hydrogen peroxide to produce explosive compound (TATP, triacetone triperoxide) used in suicide belts.

Fortunately mixing hypochlorite with vodka and some hydroxide will also produce chloroform.

Initially alcohol is oxidized to acetaldehyde, then chloral is formed and then chloral is converted to chloroform and formate.

Now, why someone should even think about this sort of silliness if in normal society working degreasing solvents should be available off shelf from a corner chemist?

Martin

[HopperParticipant @hopper]

Posted by Mick B1 on 19/11/2017 10:39:36:

Posted by Martin Dowing on 19/11/2017 10:18:13:

You may like it or not, but the UK is mooving towards a state where anything and everything of use is legislated as dangerous and illegal and as many activities as possible are tightly regulated or (preferably) legislated out of existence.

…

And there are folk who'll put together a conspiracy theory from a bus timetable.

Funny you should mention that. Have you ever noticed all the numbers on a bus timetable are always in chronological order? Always. Definitely something going on there. No way something that widespread can be coincidence.

Edited By Hopper on 19/11/2017 11:47:28

[RobinParticipant @robin]

Posted by Martin Dowing on 19/11/2017 11:40:12:

Hey, acetone may well also be banned, this time because some morons are mixing it with hydrogen peroxide to produce explosive compound (TATP, triacetone triperoxide) used in suicide belts.

Way to scare a body, I just bought another 5 litres to feel safe. Wish I'd stocked up on Trike

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