Bowl shaped propellor

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Bowl shaped propellor

Home Forums Beginners questions Bowl shaped propellor

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  • #399326
    Simon Williams 3
    Participant
      @simonwilliams3

      Hi all, good evening.

      I've been watching a number of videos recently involving rotating propellors, typically on the front of some sort of aircraft. I think I can get my head round why the blades in stopped motion are curved in the plane of rotation as the tips are travelling faster than the hub, so the strobe effect of the video camera frame rate freezes the propeller motion at different points in its rotation. Or have I got the wrong end of the stick completely?

      Whether this is right or no, I'm blowed if I can understand why film of a rotating propeller taken from a position behind the plane (no pun…) of rotation distorts the shape of the blades so they appear bowl shaped. This maybe something to do with how digital cameras create the illusion of frame rate?

      Does the same effect ring true for the spokes of a revolving fly wheel with a solid rim? So the spokes go bowl shaped? If so the rim should be out of line with the hub, no that doesn't seem right.

      Any thoughts?

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      #9570
      Simon Williams 3
      Participant
        @simonwilliams3

        Why is a revolving propellor bowl shaped?

        #399327
        Grindstone Cowboy
        Participant
          @grindstonecowboy

          If the plane is moving forwards, I would guess that's what gives it the bowl shape, in the same way the blades are curved due to the rotation. Of course, if the plane is not moving, all bets are off and I have no idea…

          #399333
          Martin Connelly
          Participant
            @martinconnelly55370

            Photographic recording with film exposed the complete frame al at the same time so the strobe effect didn't distort the spokes of wagon wheels or the blades of propellors and helicopter rotor blades. Using digital cameras the frame is scanned left to right and top to bottom (or some variation of this order) and this takes some time. During that time the propeller is still rotating so each scanned line will show the blade at a slightly different time. This results in a straight blade looking curved. There is a video somewhere on the web showing a car window's glass looking as if it is rippling due to this scanning of the frame.

            Martin C

            #399336
            John Olsen
            Participant
              @johnolsen79199

              Actually film cameras typically either had an in lense shutter or a focal plane shutter. The in lense shutter exposes the entire negative at the same time, but the focal plane shutter, found in any single lense reflex, does not, at least at the higher speeds. This gives rise to distortions in moving subjects. The shutter consists of two moving blinds which travel across the film plane. At low speeds there is a time where the whole film plane is exposed but at high speeds the two blinds form a moving slit which travels across the film. For a typical 35mm single lense reflex, the highest speed at which the film is fully exposed is 1/60 of a second, and this speed is used for flash. At higher speeds, motion distortion effects may be seen, but they would be most obvious in vertically moving objects. Objects moving horizontally would be just stretched or shrunk a little

              I've been told that the reason that artists depict things like fast moving cars with the radiator leaning forwards is that that is how they appeared in photos at the time, taken with a vertical run shutter. Most modern SLRs have a horizontal run shutter, although I have a Pentax MX with a vertical run shutter with metal blades. That also runs faster than most, with the flash sync at 1/125 second.

              John

              #399341
              Michael Gilligan
              Participant
                @michaelgilligan61133

                Excellent clarification, John yes

                Just for completeness, I would mention that [although not common] 'Global Shutter' digital sensors are available, and these confer the same advantages as the leaf shutter did on film.

                MichaelG.

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