Horizontal Milling With Inclinable Head Machine

This topic has 10 replies, 6 voices, and was last updated 14 April 2011 at 20:34 by JasonB.

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13 April 2011 at 21:11 #66855
Dunc
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@dunc
In MEW # 153 Dave Fenner reviewed a Warco WM18 vertical mill.

He noted: “…provision of an inclinable head… allowing… horizontal milling work to be undertaken.” [page 24, middle column, last paragraph]

I own a very similar mill. It specifies it will accept a 2.5 inch diameter face mill.

Since this arrangement lacks the mass, rigidity and overarm support of a horizontal mill I am seeking ideas regarding suitable setups. For example, cutter type, size, speeds and feeds. Would small (perhaps 2-3 inch diameter) face cutters (or, side-and-face cutters) be acceptable? What type of mandrel would be recommended to adapt one of these cutters to the MT3 spindle? What about a ‘tailstock’ – lacking a better description – to provide outboard support? Has anything like this been described? Any, and all, thoughts appreciated.
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13 April 2011 at 21:11 #5477
Dunc
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@dunc
Suggestations wanted
13 April 2011 at 23:16 #66869
DMB
Participant
@dmb
Hi Dunc,

Just seen your posting and as no – one responded so far, I`ve decided to risk looking silly! Firstly, I am a little confused but I think you are saying that you have a combination horizontal and vertical mill, frequently and incorrectly called, “universal.” I have had a look at warco`s site and their WM18 mill and it is a vertical column with a vertical head which can be swung from side to side, clock – pendulum style, if you like.

This type takes endmills and slot drills, preferably screwed shank type properly screwed in to a proper milling chuck to ensure they are secure and dont wind themselves out, causing mayhem. An overarm is only used on a hrizontal mill to support an outboard bearing for the horiz. spindle which carries a side and face cutter. These cutters with their multiple teeth around the periphery, makes them resemble a water wheel! The vert. mill takes its different type of cutters in a milling chuck and they dont need any overarm and outboard bearing. Get a Clarkson milling chuck with correct MT to suit your mill and read some books to find out speeds and feeds. These depend on cutter diameter and cutting speed of metal being butchered, Brass, Ali., Mild Steel, Cast Iron, all different. As speeds infintely variable, 50 – 2500, you should get perfect speed for job in hand.

Good luck, John.
14 April 2011 at 00:00 #66871
DMB
Participant
@dmb
Hi Dunc,

Further to prev., just dug out Tubal Cain`s Model Engineers Handbook, 3rd Ed., page 5.12. Max cut for endmills, depth = same as dia of cutter, width of cut = dia. divided by 4 .

Slot drills have 2 flutes and cutting edges of unequal size, the larger sweeps across the axial centre, enabling it to plunge – cut full diameter for width of cut and depth, equal to half the diameter. Now it gets complicated!

4 – flute endmills :-

Stainless, Silver Steel, Monel Metal,1/2″ dia cutter, speed = 250 and feed 2″/minute. 1/4″ cutter, 500 RPM, feed 7/8″/min.For 1/8″ dia., 1000 RPM, feed, 3/8″/min.

Bronze, Cast Iron, Copper, Gunmetal , Phos. Bronze, Mild steel, a 1/2″D = 480RPM, 3″/min., 1/4″D = 960RPM, 1 3/4″/min., 1/8″D = 1920RPM, 1″/min.

Ali.,Brass, 1/2″D = 2000RPM, 13″/min, 1/4″D = 4000RPM, 8″/min, 1/8″D = max. avail.

Slot Drills:-

Stainless and Silver Steels, Monel Metal, 1/2″D = 300RPM, 1 1/2″/min, 1/4″D = 600RPM, 1″/min, 1/8″D = 1200RPM, 1/2″/min.

Bronze, etc., 1/2″D = 800RPM, 5 1/4″/min, 1/4″D = 1600RPM, 3″/min, 1/8″D = 3200RPM, 1 5/8″/min.

Ali, Brass, 1/2″D=2200RPM, 15″/min, 1/4″D=4500RPM, 9″/min, 1/8″D= max avail.
14 April 2011 at 00:11 #66872
DMB
Participant
@dmb
Run out of space!

I tend to use largest dia endmill or slotdrill I can for max metal removal, so its usually 5/8″D for which the book recommends as follows:-

Endmills: Stainless etc 200RPM, 1 3/8″/min, Bronze etc., 385RPM, 3 1/8″/min, Ali,Brass,

1600RPM, 13″/min.

Slotdrills: Stainless etc, 240RPM, 1 1/2″/min, Bronze etc, 600RPM, 5 1/4″/min, Ali, Brass, 1800RPM, 15″/min.

Hope all the above gets you off to a flying start!

John.
14 April 2011 at 08:58 #66884
methusala
Participant
@methusala
Hi Dunk,

I own a warco wm16 mill and leave the head set up vertically all

the time. If I have to m/c any angles onto a work piece I normally set it up on

an angle plate or a tilting vice, as this saves resetting the head back to vertical.

Hope this helps.

Colin.
14 April 2011 at 09:01 #66885
methusala
Participant
@methusala
Hi Dunc,

Apologies for getting your name wrong, Sorry.
14 April 2011 at 12:58 #66892
Dunc
Participant
@dunc
Thanks for the replies.

My thought behind posting was to determine if using the side-and-face-cutter – “water wheel” – would be, in small diameters, suitable for use on a vertical mill. As I noted, a true horizontal mill has a lot of metal where it counts. Are the side-and-face-cutters bad news on a vertical mill with the head rotated 90 degrees? Would a “lump of metal” unsupported at its outer end be able to make consistent, chatter-free cuts? Is a lack of outboard support – a tailstock – asking for trouble? Obviously, deep cuts are not the way but should these cutters be used at all in the situation that I describe? Alternately, would shallow cuts be ok?

Colin: Yes, I ignored the need to re-tram if it might be worthwhile on an infrequent basis to use a “water wheel” todo the job.
14 April 2011 at 14:18 #66894
Clive Hartland
Participant
@clivehartland94829
The whole principle of a vertical mill is that you use iether endmills or shellend mills using a suitable arbor.

Side cutting in the right direction in the vertical mode is normal.

Setting the head to say 90 deg. for certain operations is also normal. Drilling holes in the 90deg. mode is one operation I do.

Very seldom have I had to use the head set to an odd angle. Chamfers are done in the vertical setting using a 45deg. tool and of course slideways are done with the right cutter in the vertical mode.

Slots are cut with a slot cutter and ‘Tee’ ways are then opened out in the vertical mode.

I have used shellend mills on big jobs, mainly alu. or brass.

The same applies to large dia. ie. 2 to 3 inch cutters. These normally used to generate flat surfaces or just to remove waste metal.

No biggy here at all. Experience will show how and what to do and how to apply it.

The size of the machine and the power available governs what tool and how you use it.

Rigidity is another factor and locking up clamps and slides. You will occasionally get a kick back from the job and tool you are using which may upset the clamped settings.

Tool speed is another factor and blunt tools that bounce and chatter.

clive
14 April 2011 at 20:09 #66906
John Olsen
Participant
@johnolsen79199
I have one of the larger mill drills, and although the head can be tilted I would avoid doing so unless the need was compelling. This is because the head is big and heavy, with the motor being mounted on it, and so it is quite an exercise to tram it up again. I think that with it turned at right angles it would be a bit limited for horizontal style milling since the spindle axis would bea long way from the table. If I needed to do a job like that I would try to mount the job on the table so that I could machine the side, with the spindle still vertical.

I did just have a job to do with a compound angle, two bow fairlead fittings for my steam launch. They meet the stem piece of the boat at 26 degrees, but with a tilt of about 8 degrees in the vertical plane. Rather than tilt the head I went and bought one of those three way tilting vices. That did the job fine, although the height of the vice means that it is not as rigid as a normal vice. You just have to be a bit more moderate with the cuts.

regards

John
14 April 2011 at 20:34 #66907
JasonB
Moderator
@jasonb
I suppose a side & face cutter generates similar loads to a slitting saw or gear cutter of similar width/dia so within reason there is nothing to stop you using them. A 3″ wide shell end mill on the other hand would be asking for chatter & deflection

As long as you stick to the face cutter size suggested then you can use that with the head at any angle, readily available MT3 ones about with indexable inserts.

J

PS you can also do things like this if you have a tilting head
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