Er collet set concerns

This topic has 17 replies, 10 voices, and was last updated 19 December 2020 at 18:33 by JasonB.

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17 December 2020 at 18:18 #20072
Richard Cox
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@richardcox82602
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17 December 2020 at 18:18 #514048
Richard Cox
Participant
@richardcox82602
Evening all

I’ve just received a er32 collet set from gloster and the not too happy with the collets which seem to be a mix and match of different manufacturers some are in loose bags others in shrink wrap tight plastic, and obviously the size etchings are different fonts, which could also indicate a quality difference, I ordered a set so because I wanted all the same Has anyone else had this issue, or any thoughts ?, I know if they are made to a spec they should be good just a bit frustrating they are the standard spec ones btw

regards Rich
17 December 2020 at 18:28 #514049
JasonB
Moderator
@jasonb
Which set did you buy? I see some they have you can clearly see the mixed loose/shrunk wrapping so not much comeback. These are not being sold as higher quality or ultra precision ones.

Edited By JasonB on 17/12/2020 18:29:21
17 December 2020 at 18:37 #514050
Richard Cox
Participant
@richardcox82602
Posted by JasonB on 17/12/2020 18:28:29:

Which set did you buy? I see some they have you can clearly see the mixed loose/shrunk wrapping so not much comeback. These are not being sold as higher quality or ultra precision ones.

Edited By JasonB on 17/12/2020 18:29:21

Hi Jason

it was the set conforming to din6499b, they wasn’t the high presision ones 10 microns rings a bell for the spec, the ultra high ones are 5 micron if I remember correct

Rich
17 December 2020 at 18:42 #514052
Henry Brown
Participant
@henrybrown95529
My experience with Gloster standard collets is only good, in fact I have replaced a few of the collets that came with my mill from Axminster as they were eccentric, all have been perfect. I would suggest you contact Barry, the owner, and discuss any issue you have.

I have no affiliation to Gloster other than being a very satisfied customer.
17 December 2020 at 20:34 #514067
Dave Halford
Participant
@davehalford22513
Why not actually test them first?
17 December 2020 at 21:13 #514072
Clive Brown 1
Participant
@clivebrown1
If you really are unhappy with your collets and you bought on-line then under the consumer rights act, even if the goods are satisfactory, but you wish return them for a refund, then you can do so by notifying the seller within 14 days of receipt. You would normally have to pay the cost of return in this circumstance
18 December 2020 at 08:28 #514116
not done it yet
Participant
@notdoneityet
I’ve used Gloster, as a source of bits, several times over the years. Never had any trouble with them and helpful over the phone. They carry a wide range of goodies/consumables. Good quality but not necessarily the cheapest – but who wants the cheapest tat?
18 December 2020 at 08:37 #514118
JasonB
Moderator
@jasonb
Same here, I have a couple of their oversize collets and the R8 – ER16 chuck I use 99% of the time in the CNC came from them.

The photo on their e-bay shop shows mixed packaging of the individual collets and they even say in the description that foam and inserts may also vary.

No mention of run out on e-bay listing but their website says 15microns upto 10mm dia and 20micron over that for standard or you can pay more for the ultra precision at 5 micron.
18 December 2020 at 09:48 #514127
SillyOldDuffer
Moderator
@sillyoldduffer
Provided they work a mixture of collets from different makers wouldn't worry me; it might even be a good thing! I suspect Gloster bulk buy collets by size for sale individually and box them up when customers want a set. What's in the set could be from several makers, all equally good.

Coming from a single maker (unless you know who it is) doesn't guarantee "quality" Perfectly possible to buy a too-cheap set of collets all made in the same factory.

DIN6499b specifies the dimensions of ER32 collets. It doesn't address quality.

In the good old days, decent tools were expensive and it paid to search out reliable brands because poor consumer protection made mistakes painful. Not so today. Now, we can buy mid-range tooling from firms like Gloster, and send them back if they're not 'fit for purpose'. I suggest Richard tests his for run-out and fit. If they're OK, they're OK.

Dave
18 December 2020 at 10:21 #514136
Michael Gilligan
Participant
@michaelgilligan61133
Interesting note, here: **LINK**

https://standards.globalspec.com/std/1356629/DIN%206499

Does anyone happen to know what supersedes that DIN Standard ?

MichaelG.
18 December 2020 at 11:47 #514157
DC31k
Participant
@dc31k
ISO 15488B, sometimes written as DIN ISO 15488B.

It probably does have something to say on 'quality', but it would be in terms of something measurable like run out.

It is likely to be silent on the particular font used on a collet.

See:

https://www.sis.se/api/document/preview/904171/

(I think this is OK as it is a preview of the standard. If it does happen to overstep a copyright, please delete the link).

Edited By DC31k on 18/12/2020 11:51:50
18 December 2020 at 13:04 #514172
Michael Gilligan
Participant
@michaelgilligan61133
Posted by DC31k on 18/12/2020 11:47:35:

ISO 15488B, sometimes written as DIN ISO 15488B.

[…]

.

Thanks for that

… Hopefully I can get a look at it later today

MichaelG.

……………

Drat !

For some unknown reason, BSI shows this as ‘not in the subscription’

… but I can at least confirm this much:

ISO 15488:2003

Collets with 8 degree setting angle for tool shanks. Collets, nutsandfitting dimensions
- Status
  
  Current, Under review
- Replaced by
  
  –
- Replaces
  
  ISO 15488:1996
Edited By Michael Gilligan on 18/12/2020 13:17:55
19 December 2020 at 12:39 #514335
Richard Cox
Participant
@richardcox82602
Hi all

should the collets cause a slight drag on tools inserted, as the few I’ve had from arc before all do but these new ones don’t when undoing the tool drops out is this the norm ?

Regards Rich
19 December 2020 at 15:26 #514363
Neil Wyatt
Moderator
@neilwyatt
Posted by Richard Cox on 19/12/2020 12:39:04:

Hi all

should the collets cause a slight drag on tools inserted, as the few I’ve had from arc before all do but these new ones don’t when undoing the tool drops out is this the norm ?

Regards Rich

The tolerances are always expressed as runout, so as long as the collet admits its larger size then I suppose it's up to the manufacturer to choose how close to size they make them, presumably it's mor e demanding to make dead size ones (which would be a gentle push fit) than oversize ones? Most of mine seem to be a push fit (various suppliers) but I haven't noticed this affect accuracy or gripping power.

Some manufacturers such as Lyndex Nikken produce 'ultra precision on-size collets' but don't specify what this means…

Neil
19 December 2020 at 16:13 #514380
JasonB
Moderator
@jasonb
My collets will hold cutters without being tightend, I do have a couple of cutters that must have slightly undersize shanks as these will drop out but that's maybe 1% of my cutters. This applies to ER32, 25 and 16 from various sources.

"Ultra precision on size" means they are made to minimal runout and this is only reached when used at nominal size so you may get more run out if say you tried to hold a 3/8" cutter in a 10mm HP collets than you would if holding a 10mm cutter. These collects are best not used for less than nominal work.
19 December 2020 at 17:22 #514395
Richard Cox
Participant
@richardcox82602
Posted by JasonB on 19/12/2020 16:13:09:

My collets will hold cutters without being tightend, I do have a couple of cutters that must have slightly undersize shanks as these will drop out but that's maybe 1% of my cutters. This applies to ER32, 25 and 16 from various sources.

"Ultra precision on size" means they are made to minimal runout and this is only reached when used at nominal size so you may get more run out if say you tried to hold a 3/8" cutter in a 10mm HP collets than you would if holding a 10mm cutter. These collects are best not used for less than nominal work.

Hi jason

can this only be attributed to the ultra precision collets that grip the tool slightly?, as the ones that I currently have are just the standard ones arc sells, what make of collet do you use or where were they from, I’m not happy with the set tbh frustrating as I wanted them for over the break, the few I have checked are accurate but tools are loose in the collets.

Rich
19 December 2020 at 18:33 #514408
JasonB
Moderator
@jasonb
Mine are not ultra precision. Mostly ARC ones in the ER32 and 25 and a Cutwel 0.010mm set in the ER16 with small half sizes and imperial from ARC.
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