Adept No.2 Shaper

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Adept No.2 Shaper

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  • #12231
    Michael Gilligan
    Participant
      @michaelgilligan61133

      Newly acquired …

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      #138910
      Michael Gilligan
      Participant
        @michaelgilligan61133

         

        My "Machine for Very Small Shaping Work" is still at the Design Concept stage     [i.e. Doodling & Muttering] … But I am delighted to say that, thanks to Roger Beere, I have purchased a very tidy Adept No.2. Hand Powered

        It's in remarkably good condition, and very nearly complete and original. One gib-screw has been replaced with a hex-socket cap-head, and the original "Spanner" for the tool-clamping screw is missing … but it looks like that might be all there is to worry about !!

        Now I have to put it on a stand and learn to use it. I have a very substantial cast iron pillar stand available, so that should do nicely.

        As for using it … any advice would be most welcome.

        MichaelG.

        .

        Edit: The original "Spanner" is shown in the first monochrome picture, here

        Edited By Michael Gilligan on 27/12/2013 22:00:59

        Edited By Michael Gilligan on 27/12/2013 22:05:00

        #138912
        paul rayner
        Participant
          @paulrayner36054

          well done

          i hope you will keep us informed as to how you go on with it

          there was a serial in me or mew recently but i just haven't had time to read & digest it

          i too have an adept no 2 powered shaper but i haven't had chance to "have a play" with it yet

          i have also come to the conclusion that i got a bit of a bargain when i bought it , as i understand they are quite rare ,and mines in fantastic condition. infact i did a lot of uming & arhing before i bought it. glad i did now

          regards

          paul

          #138915
          John Stevenson 1
          Participant
            @johnstevenson1
            Posted by Michael Gilligan on 27/12/2013 21:51:18:

             

            I have purchased a very tidy Adept No.2. Hand Powered

            As for using it … any advice would be most welcome.

            MichaelG.

            .

             

            Spinach ???

             

            Seriously, can anyone answer the question why a hand cranked shaper will fetch more money than a powered one ?

            Edited By John Stevenson on 27/12/2013 23:08:26

            #138916
            _Paul_
            Participant
              @_paul_

              Could it be because it will also double as a Bullworker® ?

              Handpower is fine but once you go beyond making keyways it can soon become tiresome.

              Paul

              #138917
              Michael Gilligan
              Participant
                @michaelgilligan61133

                John,

                Q1 …

                Q2 … I didn't know they did.

                For the size of work I expect to do with it, Hand Power should be more than adequate, even without the Spinach.

                MichaelG.

                #138922
                Bazyle
                Participant
                  @bazyle

                  My tip would be to think of it like a SMALL lathe. A small lathe would sensibly take a 5 thou depth of cut and a 1 or 2 thou feed rate but not 20/20 for each. So the cross section of the cut is only 5 to 10 sq thou. That's what you want to aim for.

                  It is quite hard to make small enough moves on the dials so it is easier to carefully increase the depth of each pass by only 1 or 2 thou and make the bigger increment on the horizontal for each pull.

                  My little Drummond is quite theraputic if not in a hurry and for brass not much effort is involved.

                  #138925
                  Michael Gilligan
                  Participant
                    @michaelgilligan61133

                    Bazyle,

                    Thanks for that very logical advice.

                    MichaelG.

                    #138933
                    IanT
                    Participant
                      @iant

                       

                      adept no2 - repainted dec 2013.jpg

                      Welcome to the Adept Owners Club Michael!

                      My machine has moved indoors to join my winter workshop and has taken up residence on the end of my axillary workbench (it's wheeled) with my Cowells drill. It was looking a bit battered but on examination it seemed mainly a problem with cracked paint (I suspect a top coat without any attempt to clean/degrease underneath it) – so I stripped it back to bare metal, primed it and have just brushed on two coats of engine enamel (Apple Green)

                      adept no2 - nov 2013 -3.jpg

                      I have a number of ideas (which we've discussed here on another thread) for using this small tool but my first change will be to make a "half-length" handle. I'll keep the old one as is, but I purchased a new length of suitable bar at Sandown for the shorter handle. I found that for the work I was doing, I was always gripping the handle nearer the shaper, so this is a simple mod that will make the machine easier to use (in a confined space).

                      I think you will find this to be a very solid foundation for the sort of linear cutting machine you were thinking of, providing that you work on the basis that the current feed arrangements are simply for "coarse" positioning.

                      Anyway, good luck with your new shaper – perhaps we could both post some progress notes next year?

                      Regards,

                       

                      Ian

                      Edited By IanT on 28/12/2013 11:43:24

                      #138941
                      Michael Gilligan
                      Participant
                        @michaelgilligan61133
                        Posted by IanT on 28/12/2013 11:41:28:

                        Welcome to the Adept Owners Club Michael!

                        My machine has moved indoors to join my winter workshop and has taken up residence on the end of my axillary workbench (it's wheeled) with my Cowells drill. It was looking a bit battered but on examination it seemed mainly a problem with cracked paint (I suspect a top coat without any attempt to clean/degrease underneath it) – so I stripped it back to bare metal, primed it and have just brushed on two coats of engine enamel (Apple Green)

                        I have a number of ideas (which we've discussed here on another thread) for using this small tool but my first change will be to make a "half-length" handle. I'll keep the old one as is, but I purchased a new length of suitable bar at Sandown for the shorter handle. I found that for the work I was doing, I was always gripping the handle nearer the shaper, so this is a simple mod that will make the machine easier to use (in a confined space).

                        I think you will find this to be a very solid foundation for the sort of linear cutting machine you were thinking of, providing that you work on the basis that the current feed arrangements are simply for "coarse" positioning.

                        Anyway, good luck with your new shaper – perhaps we could both post some progress notes next year?

                        Regards,

                        Ian

                        .

                        Thanks for the welcome, Ian, and for posting the photos … Nice restoration.

                        Mine still has most of its original [very pale Green] paint, and will probably stay like that for a while, whilst I polish-up the bits that should be shiny.

                        The short handle sounds a good idea, and Yes; I think we should post progress notes here.

                        I've just cleared access to that cast iron pillar stand that I mentioned, and have confirmed that it's just the right size … A real "Goldilocks Moment" which I'm taking as a good omen.

                        MichaelG.

                        #138970
                        Speedy Builder5
                        Participant
                          @speedybuilder5

                          Don't let anyone kid you, they are hard work. I had one years ago, and when we were at tech college, my mate did a design study of how you could motorise it. Probably today, I would consider an air ram and run it on compressed air. You could set distance stops etc to limit the travel, valves for speed ? (Would air be too 'spongey' ?

                          BobH

                          #138972
                          blowlamp
                          Participant
                            @blowlamp
                            Posted by Speedy Builder5 on 28/12/2013 20:31:22:

                            Don't let anyone kid you, they are hard work. I had one years ago, and when we were at tech college, my mate did a design study of how you could motorise it. Probably today, I would consider an air ram and run it on compressed air. You could set distance stops etc to limit the travel, valves for speed ? (Would air be too 'spongey' ?

                            BobH

                            Hydraulic, yes. Pneumatic, no.

                            Martin.

                            #138978
                            Michael Gilligan
                            Participant
                              @michaelgilligan61133
                              Posted by Speedy Builder5 on 28/12/2013 20:31:22:

                              Don't let anyone kid you, they are hard work. I had one years ago, and when we were at tech college, my mate did a design study of how you could motorise it. <etc>

                              BobH

                              .

                              Thanks for the thought Bob; but the only part I'm likely to motorise is the Cross Slide movement. A Stepper Motor, incrementing "n steps" every time the Ram retracts, should improve the surface finish.

                              MichaelG.

                              #138987
                              Gordon A
                              Participant
                                @gordona

                                Congratulations on your purchase Michael.

                                You will find that it is very cheap to run, and environmentally friendly !!!!

                                Seriously though, as long as you don't expect it to shift huge quantities of metal, it should prove to be remarkably accurate and give a good surface finish. I have owned a hand powered number 2 for some years and have found it really useful for some jobs.

                                There is quite a bit of information out there on t'internet about shapers in general. The beauty of the beast is that tooling is dirt cheap and easy to modify. It took quite a bit of experimentation to produce satisfactory tooling for mine, but I have been very impressed with the finish that can be attained on steel, brass and aluminium.

                                Gordon.

                                #138989
                                IanT
                                Participant
                                  @iant

                                  I do understand the limitations of hand shapers Bob,

                                  I've tried machining relatively large surfaces with my Adept some time ago. It was hard work but I was intrigued by the whole Shaper experience. As I've mentioned on a previous thread, it was one of the reasons I purchased a 7" Atlas when I got the chance. I find the (powered) Atlas is very good for surfacing larger surface areas (with an excellent finish) as I can set it up to run and (within reason) let it work whilst I get on with other things nearby. I suspect a lot of comment about Shapers being "slow" ignores this aspect of their operation. I certainly cannot 'duplex' with a lathe or mill in quite the same way.

                                  However, I am not intending to use the Adept to remove large amounts of metal, I'm looking to use it on smaller and/or more specialist items/tasks. I think of it as a 'linear' cutting tool and one where I think the "hand" (control) aspect of it might even be an advantage. There are of course always more than one way to do things (like skinning cats apparently) so only time will tell whether this will turn out to be useful in practice. Fortunately I do this for fun and as I like experimenting with things, if they don't work out exactly as planned, it doesn't matter too much.

                                  Regards,

                                  IanT

                                  #138990
                                  John Olsen
                                  Participant
                                    @johnolsen79199

                                    It will teach you a lot about keeping your tooling sharp, since you will be able to tell when it is getting dull. Standard lathe angles for the tools will be fine except that you may find a little less top rake suits a shaper. If there is too much top rake the tool may tend to pull down into the job. Best test for sharpness is to see if the tool will take a scrape from a fingernail.

                                    The old treadle lathes taught the same lesson, you can't get away with dull tooling when you are supplying the effort yourself. Not that I had that experience myself, but my father once had a Greyson lathe which was treadle powered until he motorised it. He said that while it did save a lot of hard work, you do lose something since you get a good feel for how the cut is going and what the tools is like with a human powered tool. I got some of the same sort of lesson with my Unimat 3 since with the original belts it was quite sensitive to the state of the tool edge. Since you don't tend to use a shaper quite as often as a lathe, being hand powered is not such a big deal…anyway it has to be better than first chiseling, then filing, a flat surface as the old timers used to do.

                                    John

                                    #138992
                                    Michael Gilligan
                                    Participant
                                      @michaelgilligan61133
                                      Posted by Gordon A on 28/12/2013 23:09:36:

                                      Congratulations on your purchase Michael.

                                      You will find that it is very cheap to run, and environmentally friendly !!!!

                                      Seriously though, as long as you don't expect it to shift huge quantities of metal, it should prove to be remarkably accurate and give a good surface finish. <etc>

                                      Gordon.

                                      .

                                      Thanks, Gordon

                                      It looks like you, me, and IanT are on the same wavelength …

                                      MichaelG.

                                      #138993
                                      Michael Gilligan
                                      Participant
                                        @michaelgilligan61133
                                        Posted by paul rayner on 27/12/2013 22:16:29:

                                        well done

                                        i hope you will keep us informed as to how you go on with it

                                        there was a serial in me or mew recently but i just haven't had time to read & digest it

                                        i too have an adept no 2 powered shaper but i haven't had chance to "have a play" with it yet

                                        i have also come to the conclusion that i got a bit of a bargain when i bought it , as i understand they are quite rare ,and mines in fantastic condition. infact i did a lot of uming & arhing before i bought it. glad i did now

                                        regards

                                        paul

                                        <quoted text emboldened by MichaelG.>

                                        .

                                        Paul,

                                        Sorry I didn't respond to your post … Is it the motorised version that you have?

                                        Mine, like IanT's, is hand-powered [and I expect it to remain that way], but I would be interested to hear how the motorised one performs.

                                        MichaelG.

                                        #139016
                                        paul rayner
                                        Participant
                                          @paulrayner36054

                                          hello MichaelG.

                                          yes it is motorised, I've only had it running to see if it works thats about it, the motor its self is from a washing machine i presume as it has a hoover on the plate, it stands on a home made trolly

                                          ​It's going to be awhile before I get round to using it as I'm new to this model engineering lark and i'm only just getting to grips with my lathe. Just started to machine my 1st engine (stuart 10v) a bit of head scratching going on but it's a learning curve.

                                          If i get chance later i will take some pics and try and post them

                                          regards

                                          paul

                                          #139024
                                          Michael Gilligan
                                          Participant
                                            @michaelgilligan61133
                                            Posted by paul rayner on 29/12/2013 13:13:28:

                                            If i get chance later i will take some pics and try and post them

                                            regards

                                            paul

                                            .

                                            That's great, thanks Paul

                                            MichaelG.

                                            #139036
                                            Sub Mandrel
                                            Participant
                                              @submandrel

                                              Hi Paul,

                                              Back in the day Hoover made some very lovely motors for machine tools, so it [probably isn't from a washing machine if it looks like the one below. If it has oil cups at each end pop a drop or two of oil in every day you use it.

                                              Neil

                                              Tail end of hover motor - note external terminal for earth!

                                              #139117
                                              North Western
                                              Participant
                                                @northwestern

                                                Hi Paul

                                                – if the Hoover motor is 0.25hp, 1425rpm, painted blue, as well as the shaper, then this sounds like the machine I sold through a Tyneside machine tool dealer earlier in 2012. If so, you can send me a PM or use this thread and I will try to help.

                                                Dave

                                                #139147
                                                paul rayner
                                                Participant
                                                  @paulrayner36054

                                                  hello Dave

                                                  no its not the one but thanks anyway

                                                  here are some pics

                                                  one thing I did notice is as well as a good clean it will need its gibbs adjusting does anybody know how to do the cross slide ones without having to strip half of the machine down!

                                                  20131230_141404.jpg

                                                  20131230_141340.jpg

                                                  20131230_141307.jpg

                                                  20131230_141243.jpg

                                                  #139189
                                                  North Western
                                                  Participant
                                                    @northwestern

                                                    Hi Paul

                                                    Yes, adjusting the traverse slide gib on the powered model is a most frustrating and fiddly process, which might explain why the several I have seen all needed attention. Access on the original hand operated model is much easier, the motorised version just has all these extra bits added on, which naturally results in something of a compromise.

                                                    It will probably be easier to at least partly dismantle the drive gear at the rear which will improve access, also the traverse feed screw, so that the body can be moved by hand as adjustments are made. Mine was stripped down so I replaced the much-mangled and too short grubscrews with longer socket head grubscrews, and allocated a shortened ring spanner and allen key to the machine. Subsequent adjustments were quite easy. The ram gib also received new socket grubscrews.

                                                    Your machine has a few interesting modifications – the downfeed handle I personally think is an improvement on the original wheel, and it looks as if there is a graduated collar? If not, I can recommend this as a most useful addition. I made a new larger wheel with a graduated collar for mine, which was transferred to a friend’s machine when mine was sold. The traverse mechanism drive arm looks to be a substantial replacement, I wonder what happened to the original.

                                                    The replacement traverse wheel is big enough to get a proper grip with oily fingers for hand feed, and the auto feed ratchet drum looks to have a friction spring added – when worn the ratchet mechanism can be hit and miss, which can alter the surface finish by varying the traverse feed rate. Mine was friction loaded with a rubber band cut from an inner tube…

                                                    Two other alterations worth considering are a dowel to hold the vertical feed gib in place, and either a lock screw with short lever, or one longer gib screw, which can be tightened to hold the down feed slide in position, as it can “creep” during use, which does not improve finish, work piece, tool or temper.

                                                    Dave

                                                    #139215
                                                    paul rayner
                                                    Participant
                                                      @paulrayner36054

                                                      thankyou for your response Dave

                                                      I will certainly bear those tips in mind when I eventually get round to using it

                                                      regards

                                                      Paul

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