Using the Britan Repetition Lathe

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Using the Britan Repetition Lathe

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  • #104637
    Anonymous

      Having been to a traction engine meeting yesterday and got thoroughly depressed 'cause the other wheels on display were a damn sight better than mine, I decided to abandon work on the engine today and give the Britan repetition lathe a run for its money.

      I've only cut a thread on the end of a rod, but it's a start! Here's the set up, 1/4" steel rod (EN3B) in the dead length collet and a 1/2" Coventry diehead in the second tailstock shaft:

      britan_coventry_sized.jpg

      Spindle speed was about 112rpm and the tailstock was hand fed up to the stop, at which point the diehead carries on a bit and then pulls off. I like Coventry dieheads; when they're set up correctly they produce really nice threads:

      thread_sized.jpg

      The thread is 1/4" BSF. Now I can churn out all the studs for my traction engines. It's only a small step, but the journey doesn't begin until you've made the first step.

      Regards,

      Andrew

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      #12048
      Anonymous
        #104639
        NJH
        Participant
          @njh

          Well done Andrew – that looks nice.

          Now how about a few at 8BA ……………

          Norman

          #104640
          Sub Mandrel
          Participant
            @submandrel

            > cause the other wheels on display were a damn sight better than mine,

            I heard John Entwhistle playing on 'The Real Me' yesterday and felt teh same way. Time to dust ouselves down and be please with what we CAN do!

            Anyway, the studs on your engine will knock the spots off everyone else's.

            Neil

            #104647
            KWIL
            Participant
              @kwil

              Andrew, when you have ground the welds on the rings, no one will know the difference!smile

              #104649
              websnail
              Participant
                @websnail
                Posted by NJH on 25/11/2012 21:02:13:

                Well done Andrew – that looks nice.

                Now how about a few at 8BA ……………

                Norman

                Done a good few thousand that size and smaller.smiley

                Andy, glad you have started your journey………..good thread, how many are you going to knock out?

                Dave

                #104652
                NJH
                Participant
                  @njh

                  Hi Dave

                  I just needed some that size for my current project, which I do make as required, though I must say I find them a real P.I.T.A. I can't really justify a repitition lathe though!

                  Norman

                  Edited By NJH on 25/11/2012 23:30:04

                  #104678
                  Anonymous

                    Dave: I haven't counted up the studs, but it must be several dozen at 1/4" BSF and slightly fewer at 5/16" BSF. Fortunately I have both 1/4" and 5/16" collets. Changing the spindle collet yesterday seemed easy enough. Unscrew the nose piece, swap the collet and replace the nose piece. Clearly the more you screw the nose piece in the tighter the collet gets on closing. Presumably the idea is to have the collet just tight enough to grip the work, but no more or the closing fingers might get damaged?

                    Norman: As Dave says 8BA is no problem. I've also got a 5/16" (8mm) Coventry diehead for the Britan. Currently it has 4BA dies in it, but 8BA is readily available. You can even get new dies for the ME 40 tpi series. As an aside there was also a 3/8" (10mm) diehead, but there are far fewer dies available in this size, so presumably the 3/8" diehead was much less popular?

                    Neil/Ken: Yes I know, but it's still depressing. sad Mind you not only will my studs be better I'll have some fancy washers too with a nice chamfer on them instead of commercial stamped out washers. smiley

                    Regards,

                    Andrew

                    #104740
                    websnail
                    Participant
                      @websnail

                      Norman, maybe have a word with Andy and get him to make them for yousmiley

                      Andy, we used both sizes on the britan and a larger one still on the Ward.

                       

                      Re Collet changes: I'm sorry but you are wrong on this.

                      The collet nose nut, must be tight. Use the two prong spanner to tighten with a light thump of your hand. The collets are adjusted by lifting the headstock cover. Between the pulleys and the collet lever, there is a cross knurled ring on the spindle with one locking screw in it. Un-do the screw, turn the ring to required place and nip it back up.

                      Keep this area well oiled. Always oil the collets when putting them in. On the 1 ¼” machines like yours, the collets are in a hardened sleave. To clean it out, you will need a very strong hook for the only hole in it. Remove the collet to find it.smiley

                      Dave

                      Edited By websnail on 26/11/2012 21:23:15

                      #104996
                      Anonymous

                        Dave,

                        Thanks for putting me right on changing the collets; that'll teach me to wing it instead of reading the manual first.

                        Regards,

                        Andrew

                        #105044
                        websnail
                        Participant
                          @websnail

                          As blokes, we never read instructions first.smiley

                          No harm done.

                          #110879
                          Anonymous

                            Finally the Britan is paying its way. As part of a set of plastic production jigs I am making for a client I needed 33 spacers, each 80.65 ±0.05mm long, with a 5.8mm hole in each end for a threaded metal insert.

                            It's long been a PITA facing items to an accurate length on my conventional lathe; face off, take the part out, measure it, put it back, take a bit more off and so on. Things are not helped by having a Burnerd multisize collet chuck, which is not dead length, on my conventional lathe. Due to the design of the jig it is important that the spacers are consistent on length as it controls how the internal parts clamp together. Here are the finished spacers:

                            spacers.jpg

                            The plastic (delrin) is nominally 12mm diameter, in practise it is 12.4mm. I don't have a collet for the Britan of that size, so I made an aluminium split collet to fit a 15mm Britan collet:

                            collet.jpg

                            One end of each spacer was cleaned up on my conventional lathe. I then fitted the backstop to the Britan and using the adjustment screw crept up on the correct length for the spacer. Once set up it only took about 15 seconds per spacer to face off to the correct length:

                            cutting.jpg

                            I then used a centre drill (left hand) to centre each end:

                            centre.jpg

                            And a 5.8mm drill, also lefthand, to drill the holes:

                            drill.jpg

                            The centre and drill were separate operations, as I haven't worked out yet how to cope with the very different lengths of the centre drill and jobbers drill when they are mounted together. I'm really pleased with the operation of the Britan, it made what is normally a tedious and long winded job very simple. Doesn't happen often, but definitely one of my better buys.

                            I quoted a fixed price to make the jigs, so I'm feeling rather smug that these parts took a lot less time than I budgeted. Tomorrow I'll make up a simple adaptor to fit the threaded inserts, while ensuring that they go in square.

                            Regards,

                            Andrew

                            #110902
                            jason udall
                            Participant
                              @jasonudall57142

                              As described to me.."you don't so much operate a BRITAN ..as dance with it"

                              May be a waltz or jitterbug?

                              #110905
                              Anonymous
                                Posted by jason udall on 04/02/2013 00:26:36:

                                As described to me.."you don't so much operate a BRITAN ..as dance with it"

                                I can't dance to save my life; that probably explains why I had a few 'issues' pulling levers in the wrong order. Fortunately none of them resulted in clean underwear being required.

                                Regards,

                                Andrew

                                #110916
                                David Clark 13
                                Participant
                                  @davidclark13

                                  Hi Andrew

                                  You can get long series centre drills and short stub drills which will sort the length problem.

                                  regards David

                                  #110986
                                  Anonymous

                                    David,

                                    Thanks for the hint. I can find left hand stub drills with no problem, but nothing for left hand long series centre drills. Any ideas?

                                    Regards,

                                    Andrew

                                    #110988
                                    Keith Long
                                    Participant
                                      @keithlong89920

                                      Andrew

                                      OK I'll say it, probably others thinking it – mount a short one in an extension?

                                      Keith

                                      #110991
                                      Jon
                                      Participant
                                        @jon

                                        Wouldnt bother with centre drill wth a 5.8, certainly in acetal.

                                        Work with it all the time for valves needing a cock on critical 1.3mm hole, i swage a 1.5mm silver steel in.

                                        4 operations?

                                        Face off, drill and part off. Turn round set to a stop and drill?

                                        #110998
                                        David Clark 13
                                        Participant
                                          @davidclark13

                                          Hi Andrew

                                          No idea on centre drills but as the Britan is so fast at changing direction, left-hand is not important.

                                          regards David

                                          #111000
                                          KWIL
                                          Participant
                                            @kwil

                                            David,

                                            http://www.drill-service.co.uk for left handed centre drills.

                                            K

                                            #111010
                                            Anonymous

                                              Thanks for all the information. I've got boxes of standard length lefthand centre drills, so I'll probably follow Keith's suggestion and use an extension. Taking the idea a step further, if I used a short split sleeve to mount the drill I could use the drill in a collet rather than a drill chuck which would mean that the overall lengths would be similar.

                                              Plenty to think about!

                                              Regards,

                                              Andrew

                                              #111144
                                              Anonymous

                                                Another first for me, machine tapping on a lathe. I've machine tapped thousands of holes on vertical and CNC mills, but never done so on a lathe; before now. Here's a picture of the setup:

                                                threading.jpg

                                                The tap is M3, spiral flute, in a holder with a one way clutch. In other words the holder will drive the tap until it pulls out and disengages the drive, but in reverse it always drives the tap. After a tentative start on slow speeds, 56 and 112rpm, I finally settled on 562rpm for the tapping. The procedure was to start the lathe in reverse, ie, conventional direction for a normal lathe. Feed the tap in up to the preset stop on the tailstock. After another couple of turns the tap holder disengages and the tap spins with the spindle, then knock the spindle into reverse, just hit the reversing lever, no need to stop the lathe. The tap holder engages and reverses the tap out. Job done, takes much longer to write about it than to do it.

                                                It took me less than 45 minutes to thread 32 parts this afternoon, including making a split brass bush to hold the tap, the initial tentative experiments and a few tests with an M3 bolt to make sure that I really was cutting a thread.

                                                The more I play with the Britan the more I like it!

                                                Regards,

                                                Andrew

                                                #111171
                                                websnail
                                                Participant
                                                  @websnail

                                                  Hi Andy, sounds like you're having some fun.

                                                  I probably would NOT have used a c/drill unless a lead in for the insert was required.

                                                  If only doing 35off, you might find it better to 'opp' it, rather than worry about drill lenghts etc. Good pratice though.

                                                  Dave

                                                  #111237
                                                  Anonymous

                                                    Hi Dave,

                                                    Fun indeed, and being paid for it! I have been very pleased with the way the Britan has helped me do the tasks outlined. They may be simple, but they're a PITA to do on my conventional lathe, particularly for multiple parts.

                                                    By not using a centre drill presumably that implies that the twist drill will start true by itself? I didn't try that, although on my conventional lathe it doesn't work.

                                                    I assume by 'opp' it you mean doing one operation with one tool on all parts before moving on to the next? If so, that's what I've been doing, as I judged it to be the quickest for these particular jobs, particularly as swapping parts in the collet is so quick. It's the first time I've used lever operated dead length collets, quite a revelation. Some of the operations have been done on the conventional lathe as I judged that to be quicker than setting up the Britan.

                                                    It's good to have finally used the Britan for some real work. To paraphrase, it may be a small step for me but a giant leap in my potential capabilities. I've got the metal in stock so I'm looking foward to knocking out studs, nuts and washers for my traction engines.

                                                    Regards,

                                                    Andrew

                                                    #111294
                                                    websnail
                                                    Participant
                                                      @websnail

                                                      Yes the drill should start fine in plastics for a simple spacer insert.Peck, clear, then drill, clearing it as required. One thing you really will notice, is the 'feel' you will get from the drill, whilst drilling. If drilling a bit deep (20/30mm), I'd use a suds brush to dab on some suds and clear the drill at the same time. As you will know, drilling plastic fast, the drill will get very hot!

                                                      Yes that's what I mean by 'opping' the job. There is more than one way to skin a cat.

                                                      The more tools that you get ground up, the more ways to work open up to you. I had around 10 part off tools and even more face/cham tools. Even more in boxes, if specials, along with form tools (and bushes etc) for repeat orders, some of which went on for decades.

                                                      Don't forget, you don't have to stop the spindle to open the collets.

                                                      Regards

                                                      Dave

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