windoze 10

[roy entwistleParticipant @royentwistle24699]

I have a friend who is chief IT technician for a large hospital trust who swears that XP was the most reliable

I was personally running a DOS based spread sheet quite happily on Win 7, my laptop updated itself to Win10 and I had to get a new spread sheet. I now use Libre Office

Roy

[Peter G. ShawParticipant @peterg-shaw75338]

I too was faced with upgrading/replacing both equipment and software when XP reached end of life. Rather than subscribe even more to Microsoft's coffers, I decided to move to Linux Mint. Currently I use a DOS based database via DOSemu as if it were a Linux program, and an old but perfectly satisfactory for me Win32 bit CAD program via Wine which also performs as if it were a Linux program albeit with a couple of oddities, both of which are easily got round. I was already using Firefox, Thunderbird, Libre Office on XP, so the data transfer to the Linux versions was achieved without problems. This left an early version of Paint Shop Pro which was more or less satisfactory under Wine, but has now been replaced by Gimp, a much better program.

I did increase RAM to 2GB, but that was all, and I'm still using hardware many years old, indeed the laptop I'm using at the moment is almost 12 years old.

I've never looked back since escaping from Microsoft's clutches.

Peter G. Shaw

[I.M. OUTAHEREParticipant @i-m-outahere]

Now if you want to talk about an OS that should have been terminated at its inception cast your memory back to windows 2000 or ME now that was a horror story !

I went from that to XP to vista to win 8 ( until i killed my hard drive and had to replace it ) then installed win 7 .

I then build a new tower with i7 cpu ,ssd and as much ram as the board would take . I had a copy of win7 so thought i would install that as win 10 was only fairly new and i like to wait until the bugs get ironed out before upgrading , damned computer loaded win7 ok and i updated it then after all the updates were installed it spits out a message that win7 wont work with some of the features of the new cpu or chipset ( hyperthreading i think ) so the pc will never reach its full potential so i ended up with win 10 whether i wanted it or not .

It seems to me that microsoft tried to keep up with Android and IOS when they developed win8 with its apps and they have been trying to fix it ever since , win 10 to me seems nothing more than an amalgamation of win7&8 with a few tweaks to make it look different .

Speaking of updates – my ipad has had 3 or 4 OS updates in a week , it is now IOS 13 iirc and it is beginning to annoy me !

I will one day try linux and a few other operating systems , maybe running them on some of the new single board computers that are around these days – maybe !

[Clive HartlandParticipant @clivehartland94829]

A recent Win 7 update has added an address bar to my bottom bar on the screen, what is this?

Clive

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

Posted by XD 351 on 01/10/2019 05:03:10:

Now if you want to talk about an OS that should have been terminated at its inception cast your memory back to windows 2000 or ME now that was a horror story !

2000 (aka W2K) was the best until XP, it was the first consumer version to be based on NT, I believe. I loved it.

Windows ME (Millennium Edition) was very poor, but don't confuse the two of them!

Neil

[Grindstone CowboyParticipant @grindstonecowboy]

RMA – I use Doublekiller to get rid of duplicate files. There's a free version or a paid-for Pro version with a few more features. It can be a bit daunting if you are not computer-savvy, but approach it slowly and methodically and you should be OK. You can run it from a memory stick as it does not need to be installed on your PC.

You can find it here.

Another option is CCleaner, which has a duplicate detection tool, but it is nowhere near as powerful as Doublekiller.

[old martParticipant @oldmart]

If you look in "settings", "system" and go to "about", it will tell you which build you are running. The one you want is 1903, and should be easy to get.

[I.M. OUTAHEREParticipant @i-m-outahere]

Posted by Neil Wyatt on 01/10/2019 16:15:38:Posted by XD 351 on 01/10/2019 05:03:10:

Now if you want to talk about an OS that should have been terminated at its inception cast your memory back to windows 2000 or ME now that was a horror story !

2000 (aka W2K) was the best until XP, it was the first consumer version to be based on NT, I believe. I loved it.

Windows ME (Millennium Edition) was very poor, but don't confuse the two of them!

Neil

 

I was simply inferring that neither were as good as XP – well I don’t think so anyway 😀

I wonder what the reaction of the general public would be if MS brought back that annoying little bike riding paper clip or the stupid dog 😫

Edited By XD 351 on 03/10/2019 02:02:35

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

Windows 8 was a major disappointment for Microsoft in that it failed to get them into the Smart Phone / Tablet and embedded market. This is the big money future, not desktops and laptops. The Windows 8 user interface was designed to work on both small form-factor devices and full-size screens. Unfortunately, it suffered the fate of many other engineering compromises. It thoroughly annoyed conservative customers like those comfy with the look and feel of XP while simultaneously failing to impress the youth, or Smart Phone makers looking deeply at Windows 8 as a technical and commercial platform for innovative development.

Ubuntu hit much the same problem; their smart-phone style interface also upset the conservatives, many of whom jumped to Mint, which is Ubuntu with an XP-like interface.

Today Microsoft and Ubuntu have both backed off. The big winners were Apple and Android, now sharing about 50% each of a market selling 1.3 billion devices a year. Microsoft's offering is bundled with the 'others' totalling less than 0.1% of sales, ie like Nokia, they've been wiped out.

Technically, Apple's IOS and Android are both UNIX based. IOS has it's roots in Berkeley UNIX, and Android has a Linux core. Using Linux as the core of a smart-phone or embedded system makes a lot of sense, it's security is more solid and the code is open source. The user interface isn't anything like XP, there's no keyboard, mouse, drop down menus or command line. Instead users swipe a touch sensitive screen and bark orders at it : 'Alexa, play David Bowie'. Excellent stuff, but not what I need. Even if everything else worked, a big screen is needed for CAD.

Nigel remarked: 'They forget, fail to realise or wilfully ignore the simple fact that if the uses and requirements of the machine do not change, there is no need to change the machine'. Thing is, when you're making a living from selling software, customers like me and Nigel are a pain in the butt – we don't spend the money needed to keep them profitable. As we're a dead-loss, they have to look for opportunities elsewhere, which means constantly finding new things to do. It's a good thing in the sense that my pension depends on their success! Problem is, continual growth isn't sustainable. The ideas of Greta Thunberg and Nigel may be closer than they realise…

Dave

[RMAParticipant @rma]

Posted by Grindstone Cowboy on 01/10/2019 22:14:24:

RMA – I use Doublekiller to get rid of duplicate files. There's a free version or a paid-for Pro version with a few more features. It can be a bit daunting if you are not computer-savvy, but approach it slowly and methodically and you should be OK. You can run it from a memory stick as it does not need to be installed on your PC.

You can find it here.

Another option is CCleaner, which has a duplicate detection tool, but it is nowhere near as powerful as Doublekiller.

Thank you, I'll check it out. Is there any commitments because it's free?

[RMAParticipant @rma]

Posted by SillyOldDuffer on 03/10/2019 10:51:09:

Windows 8 was a major disappointment for Microsoft in that it failed to get them into the Smart Phone / Tablet and embedded market. This is the big money future, not desktops and laptops. The Windows 8 user interface was designed to work on both small form-factor devices and full-size screens. Unfortunately, it suffered the fate of many other engineering compromises. It thoroughly annoyed conservative customers like those comfy with the look and feel of XP while simultaneously failing to impress the youth, or Smart Phone makers looking deeply at Windows 8 as a technical and commercial platform for innovative development.

Ubuntu hit much the same problem; their smart-phone style interface also upset the conservatives, many of whom jumped to Mint, which is Ubuntu with an XP-like interface.

Today Microsoft and Ubuntu have both backed off. The big winners were Apple and Android, now sharing about 50% each of a market selling 1.3 billion devices a year. Microsoft's offering is bundled with the 'others' totalling less than 0.1% of sales, ie like Nokia, they've been wiped out.

Technically, Apple's IOS and Android are both UNIX based. IOS has it's roots in Berkeley UNIX, and Android has a Linux core. Using Linux as the core of a smart-phone or embedded system makes a lot of sense, it's security is more solid and the code is open source. The user interface isn't anything like XP, there's no keyboard, mouse, drop down menus or command line. Instead users swipe a touch sensitive screen and bark orders at it : 'Alexa, play David Bowie'. Excellent stuff, but not what I need. Even if everything else worked, a big screen is needed for CAD.

Nigel remarked: 'They forget, fail to realise or wilfully ignore the simple fact that if the uses and requirements of the machine do not change, there is no need to change the machine'. Thing is, when you're making a living from selling software, customers like me and Nigel are a pain in the butt – we don't spend the money needed to keep them profitable. As we're a dead-loss, they have to look for opportunities elsewhere, which means constantly finding new things to do. It's a good thing in the sense that my pension depends on their success! Problem is, continual growth isn't sustainable. The ideas of Greta Thunberg and Nigel may be closer than they realise…

Dave

Interesting history, but I haven't a clue what UNIX is all about, I just want something that works and doesn't have a mind of it's own! Please don't bring that silly young girl into this!

[Peter G. ShawParticipant @peterg-shaw75338]

RMA,

Unix is an operating system, just as Windows is an operating system. Both do the same job of acting as an interface between the user, ie you and me, and the hardware of the computer. Although they do it differently, you and I do not need to know how it does it, simply that it does, after all, do you know how Windows works at the basic level? And, more to the point, do you need to know?

As Dave/SOD says, Mint is Ubuntu with an XP-like interface, and that is how I use Mint. Yes there is the, to some people, the dreaded command line interface (CLI), but you generally do not need to use it, just as in Windows, there is, if it's still there, the command line interface known as DOS. How many people actually use DOS? And in any case, in my limited experience of Mint, whenever I've needed to use the CLI full instructions have been given which is perhaps as well considering my lack of familiarity with it.

I actually completely agree that there is no necessity to upgrade just for upgrading's sake, and this why my equipment is many years old, as my software, and yet it does everything I want quite satisfactorily, ok, sometimes a bit slowly, but for heaven's sake, it's not that long ago when I had to prepare data for submission to a mainframe computer, and wait for the program to run overnight, yes, overnight, so what does a few seconds matter here and now.

And I quite agree, little children should be seen and not heard!

Peter G. Shaw

[Nick Clarke 3Participant @nickclarke3]

Posted by Peter G. Shaw on 03/10/2019 11:51:36:

I actually completely agree that there is no necessity to upgrade just for upgrading's sake, and this why my equipment is many years old, as my software, and yet it does everything I want quite satisfactorily …..

I also agree – I use XP, Win7 and Win10 here along with different types of *nix and Mac OS – however being a computer nerd I get often asked questions along the lines of 'I use XP and my new printer won't work' or 'I have a new PC that came with Windows *** and now my old software won't work'.

Keeping old systems running depends upon you being able to freeze them in their entirety – as soon as you need to replace one part you can start to get issues.

But this isn't just a Windows issue. Apple upgrade as often and while their systems may seem to stay more stable they don't have to deal with the huge number of independent third party hardware and software suppliers that Microsoft do. To go onto the App store compatibility is checked – it is not at all like that on a PC! – and it doesn't last forever – I have a Mac Mini that is PPC based and won't run OSX 10.5 or later and a Classic Mac SE30 that is restricted to MacOS 7. Both still work fine with their own software and hardware many years after they were superseded.

[Enough!Participant @enough]

Posted by XD 351 on 03/10/2019 02:00:19:

Posted by Neil Wyatt on 01/10/2019 16:15:38:Posted by XD 351 on 01/10/2019 05:03:10:

Now if you want to talk about an OS that should have been terminated at its inception cast your memory back to windows 2000 or ME now that was a horror story !

2000 (aka W2K) was the best until XP, it was the first consumer version to be based on NT, I believe. I loved it.

Windows ME (Millennium Edition) was very poor, but don't confuse the two of them!

I was simply inferring that neither were as good as XP – well I don’t think so anyway 😀

So XP was an improvement on previous versions ?….. what will Microsoft think of next?

[I.M. OUTAHEREParticipant @i-m-outahere]

Maybe a way of repaying us for the torture they heaped-upon us with win8 😁.

If you dig deep enough into c/ drive you will find the basic operating system Core to be the same since xp all they have done is tart it up with mostly useless features and sell it of as a brand new OS .

I run my pc showing the desktop and not the start menu and i copy links to the desktop or toolbar for any of the apps that are on the start menu that i might use – not a fan of tiles or apps that constantly change info or images – i find them distracting . In a strange sort of way I’m setting it up so it is more like what i was used to with xp or win7.

Edited By XD 351 on 03/10/2019 18:50:02

[Enough!Participant @enough]

Posted by XD 351 on 03/10/2019 18:49:29:

In a strange sort of way I’m setting it up so it is more like what i was used to with xp or win7.

Me too with my Win-8.1 …. but I let Classic Shell do the work

(It's pretty much Win-7 underneath anyway).

Edited By Bandersnatch on 03/10/2019 19:00:39

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

W10 just showed me its roots…

Trying to copy files off an SD card it threw an error 'Invalid MS-DOS Function'…

Reinserted the card and all was OK.

Neil

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Posted by Neil Wyatt on 13/10/2019 21:40:58:

W10 just showed me its roots…

Trying to copy files off an SD card it threw an error 'Invalid MS-DOS Function'…

Reinserted the card and all was OK.

Neil

.

'Invalid MS-DOS Function' = ‘still limping along’

MichaelG.

[Danny M2ZParticipant @dannym2z]

Yesterday my laptop (Win 10 HE) informed me that my ISP data limit had been reached well before the planned date

Being a bit conservative with my downloads it has become apparent that background Windows updates have chewed away many many Gigabytes of my data allowance that I have paid for.

I have not consented to or given permission to Microsoft to use my account for their updates but it appears that the decision to mess with my computer and use my data allowance is no longer under my control, just at the whim of Microsoft.

What was most galling was that the 'update' actually removed the programs that I purchased the HP laptop for; tracking and controlling ROV;s.

* Danny M *

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

Posted by Danny M2Z on 14/10/2019 08:30:08:

Yesterday my laptop (Win 10 HE) informed me that my ISP data limit had been reached well before the planned date

Being a bit conservative with my downloads it has become apparent that background Windows updates have chewed away many many Gigabytes of my data allowance that I have paid for.

I have not consented to or given permission to Microsoft to use my account for their updates but it appears that the decision to mess with my computer and use my data allowance is no longer under my control, just at the whim of Microsoft.

What was most galling was that the 'update' actually removed the programs that I purchased the HP laptop for; tracking and controlling ROV;s.

* Danny M *

You probably did give permission by activating W10… but there's a 'metered connection' setting for automatic updates, have you enabled it? You can do that and then go to MacDonalds for a veggie burger and to download the latest updates…

The latest update shouldn't be more than 2.5 gig.

Neil

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

Posted by Michael Gilligan on 13/10/2019 22:13:18:

Posted by Neil Wyatt on 13/10/2019 21:40:58:

W10 just showed me its roots…

Trying to copy files off an SD card it threw an error 'Invalid MS-DOS Function'…

Reinserted the card and all was OK.

Neil

.

'Invalid MS-DOS Function' = ‘still limping along’

MichaelG.

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

Posted by Neil Wyatt on 14/10/2019 11:17:18:

Posted by Danny M2Z on 14/10/2019 08:30:08:

Yesterday my laptop (Win 10 HE) informed me that my ISP data limit had been reached well before the planned date

Being a bit conservative with my downloads it has become apparent that background Windows updates have chewed away many many Gigabytes of my data allowance that I have paid for.

I have not consented to or given permission to Microsoft to use my account for their updates but it appears that the decision to mess with my computer and use my data allowance is no longer under my control, just at the whim of Microsoft.

What was most galling was that the 'update' actually removed the programs that I purchased the HP laptop for; tracking and controlling ROV;s.

* Danny M *

You probably did give permission by activating W10… but there's a 'metered connection' setting for automatic updates, have you enabled it? You can do that and then go to MacDonalds for a veggie burger and to download the latest updates…

The latest update shouldn't be more than 2.5 gig.

Neil

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

Another way is to go to 'Updates' and alter the download time to a point in the day (2am!) when the machine is always switched off. Then updates will only get done if they're started manually.

Not a good long term solution though: if a computer is connected to the internet, it's best to keep its operating system up-to-date. And because that involves lots of sizeable updates, a bigger data limit may be necessary…

Linux and Mac are better at controlling updates than Windows; worth looking at if either runs the software you need. Android is becoming popular for controlling stuff like ROVs for the same reason, may be worth checking what's available. There isn't a best platform for all things computer. Plenty of circumstances where Windows isn't a good choice and vice versa.

Dave

[Enough!Participant @enough]

As I already said, I don't use Win-10, but it's my understanding that with the Home Edition, regular "Important" updates are ultimately non-optional. You can delay them by various means but they will eventually be installed.

[An OtherParticipant @another21905]

Are there are any other readers who have given up on the Windows/Linux thing?

I used various versions of DOS/Windows almost since its inception, because the companies I worked for insisted on it. As a result, we had to get used to all its peculiarities (slowness, BSOD, etc). None of them was perfect, but we learned to get along with it, because it was a tool – our concerns were getting the work done, not playing with the tools.

Close to the end of my working career, I worked in Sakhalin, and the company used XP, but with very high security settings (thumbprint readers, etc). My company machine failed one day (software) at site in the far north of the island, and all I could get out of our Russian support group was 'bring it into the office and we'll take a look" The only way to get to the office was a 16 hour ride on a narrow gauge railway the length of the island. I had my own laptop with me, and used that until the company decided that I couldn't do that, it was insecure (probably was, but in the interests of getting the job done…)

After that, I swore I would never use Windows again, and switched to Linux Mint, and have been using it since its inception. Like many people who make this change, I couldn't imagine going back to the Microsoft hell.

It does seem to me that many people seem to be literally frightened of Linux, and many claim they can't handle the learning curve, and that it is 'for nerds only' . Many times they seem to be people who bemoan the end of XP – but as mentioned in this thread, Linux Mint has an XP-like interface (but better). As for the nerd aspect, that was true up to maybe ten years ago – nowadays the installation and set-up of almost all dialects of Linux is easy and much quicker than Windows – you can even try most of them out on a USB stick without making a full installation, so if you don't like it, you don't have to keep it. As someone mentioned in this thread, installations and updates in Linux are under the users control (you choose, not Microsoft), and they are quick.

I can appreciate that someone who has either paid for an older Windows version, or struggled to get the newer versions to do what they want, will be reluctant to change. I can go with the argument that you need to run old software, and there isn't a Linux equivalent, but I say that there is tons of Linux software out there – take a look, you might find something better than what you have been using. Why persist with something which gives you problems when there is an alternative you can try? If it still worries, you can do a dual install – Linux alongside your Windows. This is all well documented on the Internet.

No doubt this will trigger the usual 'Windows to the death, and everyone else is wrong' supporters – good luck to you!

[Author]

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