Which mini mill?

[Ketan SwaliParticipant @ketanswali79440]

Hi Dave,

Yes, the machines are on display, and Ian or I can talk you through the + and – of each SIEG offering we do. We are open to visitors Monday to Friday 9am to 4.30pm and Saturdays from 9am to 12.30 in the afternoon. Our warehouses are located in a residential area, so if you come in with caravan on tow, we can accommodate parking, and it will be better for you to enter through 'Maiden Street' which is directly in front of our unit. Park up on side, call us and we can open the gates fro you. If you are travelling by car without caravan on tow, you can park on front of our unit at 8 Archdale Street – off street parking for visitors to ARC. You can even park in the 'No – parking' area on our premises. We just havent got around to removing this message. Fortunately and unfortunately we are closed on Sundays

For making stirling engine parts, and small dovetails, the SX1L – brushed motor – gear drive would do you fine. It is more noisy then the SX1LP – brushless motor belt drive, or the SX2P – brushless motor belt drive. You can hear all machines running on our site, and then decide what you feel about the noise.

SX1L – 150w DC brushed motor – gear drive – MT2 – ideal for milling small parts – tilting column. This machine would not be classed as a mini-mill. The power stated is output power, and the torque generated in the low gear is very generous. Being small, it is designed for light depths of cut between 0.5mm~ 1.5mm, dependent on material being milled and diameter of end mill being used, amongst various factors. Max speed in low gear is 1000rpm, and 2000rpm in high gear. It is used by Roy Darlington (a key member of the Stirling Society) to make parts for stirling engines. It easily deals with materials such as brass, aluminium, and works well with cast iron and steel with lighter depths of cuts at lower speeds, requiring several (more) passes than a mini-mill to achieve the results you may seek = between twice to three times the time invested on a brushless motor belt drive mini-mill such as the SX2P.

SX1LP – 250w DC brushess motor – belt drive – MT2 – fixed column. Maximum speed on this mill is 5000rpm. Although the motor is 250w output, toque at the very low end of the speed range is low, gradually increasing as the speed increases. This is down more to the programing of the chip on the control board then the motor itself. Ideal for fine drilling, engraving, light milling. Again, this machines cannot be classed as a mini-mill.

The SX1L and SX1LP would be the high end of the limits of micro-mill class of machines.

SX2P – 500w DC brushless motor – belt drive – MT3 or R8 – fixed column. Max speed 2500rpm. Great torque through the speed range. In some respects I feel perhaps that it is a little 'over-torqued' in proportion to the mechanical rigidity of the machine. Very quiet machine, ideal mini-mill for 'general milling' of small to medium size parts. This machine would easily deal with Sterling engines, the making of QCTP in steel and the dovetail cutting in steel. The SX1L and the SX1LP (to a certain extent) can also deal with the making of QCTP and dovetail cutting in steel, such mico-mills would require more time to achieve the same results as a mini-mill.

POWER – The power we state for every model is OUTPUT POWER. Some of our competitors state 'power' which is input power. Generally, output power of such machines is lower than the input power. it is a marketing game to try and achieve better sales. However, other factors should also be taken into consideration when considering a machine to meet your requirement.

Rigidity – Fixed column mills will generally be more rigid than tilting column mills. Having said this, some of our customers convert the tilting column SX1L to fixed column by changing the column or making and adding parts to lock/block the tilting facility. This option is considered by some customers because as and when ARC does 'package deals' for these machines, they represent good value for money for customers with tight budgets and plenty of time availability.

Perfect Tramming – There is no such thing when it comes to ANY factory assembled mill of Chinese origin in this class / price range from any supplier of any brand from anywhere in the world. If you get one which is perfectly trammed, very well done!. There will always be some tramming and/or fettling that you as a user will have to consider for ALL such machines to meet your specific requirements. New users without experience should just get on and mill, and consider 'fettling' only if and when they feel confident to do so, and then, only if necessary. Best solution – use shims if and where necessary. There is good, bad and ugly advice available on the net.

Ketan at ARC.

[David ColwillParticipant @davidcolwill19261]

Could somebody pin Ketans post above in a place where it is easily seen. This comes up time and time again and I can't help feeling that this is as good an explanation as anyone would need.

David.

[MWParticipant @mw27036]

I would stand by SIEG, i've heard nothing but good reports about their inherent machining capability, some writers for MEW use only these machine tools, although branded under different names, they are pretty much the same. The ability to mod these machines only adds to the appeal. Theres alot of material out there on various devices you can make with these and sometimes using smaller machines makes finer surface finishes than using big machines with heavy handed saddle movement. 

Ps. i don't actually own one but you don't have to look far for reviews on people who do, and theyre generally good, if i were in the market for a small compact machine tool that doesn't gouge out your bank account, then this fits the bill perfectly and ARC specialize in SIEGs (sometimes with exclusive models) and know them better than anyone else. 

Michael W

 

Edited By Michael Walters on 05/05/2016 13:31:23

[Ketan SwaliParticipant @ketanswali79440]

Hi Michael,

SIEG has its share of bad reports and limitations. ARC is happy to deal only with the SIEG factory for a whole range of reasons. However, we too have our own good and bad days with SIEG.

The only issue ARC has is with exaggerated comments, and wrong comments printed in MEW about certain competitor machines (non SIEG manufacture), which are presented as facts by writers who know nothing about the machine they have just reviewed. This is wrong. But if raised by ARC, then it comes across as a sour grapes issue.

Ketan at ARC.

[MWParticipant @mw27036]

Well, thank you Ketan, i may applaud ARC on it's commitment to selling honesty as the best policy, rather than promising the world like some companies do.

It would be better if there was a standard test to which all lathes/mills could be subjected to in a rational way which could physically prove how much the machine could handle by presenting them all with the same piece of material and the same tool to cut with, brand new, and see what happens. This would make it much easier for the consumer to understand exactly how much and how hard a material a machine could handle on a steady feed.

This kind of practical information doesn't exist because a test like this takes alot of time, but i'm sure anyone buying a machine would be duly grateful for what it can actually achieve, i'm sure in a progressive world this kind of information/marketing would be seriously considered. 

Michael W

Edited By Michael Walters on 05/05/2016 16:11:30

[mechman48Participant @mechman48]

Posted by Bandersnatch on 04/05/2016 16:57:17:

Posted by mechman48 on 04/05/2016 10:49:07:

I have fitted tramming blocks to my WM 16 that allowed me to tram in my machine head; pics in my album,

 

 

One each side I take it?

I'd thought of doing something like that but a combination of never got a round tuit plus difficult access on one side of my machine, means I haven't got there yet

Yup, got it in one!, if you have difficult access try lower down the head they would be just as effective about the swivel point on most machines, maybe not quite the fine adjustment you would like but doable … 

George.

Edited By Bandersnatch on 04/05/2016 16:57:50

 

Edited By mechman48 on 05/05/2016 16:43:39

[Enough!Participant @enough]

Posted by mechman48 on 05/05/2016 16:40:35:

if you have difficult access try lower down the head they would be just as effective about the swivel point on most machines, maybe not quite the fine adjustment you would like but doable

 

 

Thanks, George. It's not the position on the head that's the problem but that the only way I'm going to drill into the head with a portable drill is to get directly behind the drill and lean into it ….. I don't have the strength otherwise. I can do that on one side – there's room – but not the other. (There might be if I moved my metal store but …. then …. that's one reason I haven't got a round tuit )

 

Edited By Bandersnatch on 05/05/2016 17:30:23

[Dave Smith the 16thParticipant @davesmiththe16th]

After spending a day and a half setting up my lathe to remove the runout, I know what a PITA it is

You find reviews on setting a small lather and the machine they use prbably weighs 2 tons and thats the small one. With the mini lathe i can twist the bed by hand when its not bolted down. Not sure if thats normal though?

I fited 2 rings to my ground silver steel bar and turned one down within half an inch of the chuck and the other 8" away from that. The digital calipers showed it to be spot on.

I need to make some decent holders for the dial gauge though.

I will be making a visit after my holiday.

Are machines available to take away or do you have to prep them?

Thanks

[Ketan SwaliParticipant @ketanswali79440]

Posted by Dave Smith the 16th on 05/05/2016 23:24:59:

I will be making a visit after my holiday.

Are machines available to take away or do you have to prep them?

All SIEG machines are factory assembled at the SIEG factories in Shanghai. After you decide on which machine you want, provided we have it it stock, we need about 30 mins., to check that 'they work' by opening the case, connecting to a power supply, and hearing the machine run. if we are happy with the way it sounds, we re-pack the lid, and hand over.

If our website says we have a machine which you are interested in, in stock, then we have it in stock, subject to rare occasion of human error, or, rejection by us when we come to check the machine which we are about to hand over to you.

Ketan at ARC.

[Dave Smith the 16thParticipant @davesmiththe16th]

Doncaster show on Fri/Sat/Sun. Are there any deals there that will cover my travel costs

and entrance fee? 200 mile round trip and £20 for 2 Friday tickets?

Leicester is a lot closer.

[Dave Smith the 16thParticipant @davesmiththe16th]

No deals at the show?

[Nicholas FarrParticipant @nicholasfarr14254]

Hi Dave, don't count on any show prices. I think most machinery is priced as low as they can be, however if you buy at the show, you may be lucky and get free delivery or some free tooling of some sort, but I'm not guaranteeing anything so please do not quote me on any kind of deal or possible freebees.

Regards Nick.

[John RuddParticipant @johnrudd16576]

Dave,

I sent you a pm ….

[Dave Smith the 16thParticipant @davesmiththe16th]

Are ARC at the show? I may pop over to the showroom tomorrow, but if they are short handed i can leave it until later in the week.

 

 

Edited By Dave Smith the 16th on 20/05/2016 20:58:32

[John RuddParticipant @johnrudd16576]

They stopped attending the shows some years ago…..but I stand to be corrected…

You'd be better just pitching up at their premises..,

[Dave Smith the 16thParticipant @davesmiththe16th]

My head hurts even more now

After reading and re-reading and then reading it again and again. It seems the 2 smaller machines they sell are too small.

So from ARC its the SX2P. No tilting but most appear to agree thats probably a good thing unless i specifically require it. (which i don't, just thought it was a good thing)

At £675 though its a bit pricy compared to the opposition.

WM12 and Champion 16V appear to be the same machine, Geared (metal on the WM12) 16V ?

90degree tilting. 250 / 280 / 330 travel? Depends in where you look. Specs need to be checked. Both MT2.

£650 for the WM12 and £599 for the 16V

SPG9512B 45 degree tilt. MT3 or R8 (belt driven + spindle lock) for £520.

One of those 4. 2 belt driven, 2 gear driven, If its a plastic gear its out. Not something i want to mess with. Metal = OK though.

Now to me they are all much of a muchness otherwise. Pick flies anyone?

Thanks

[Ketan SwaliParticipant @ketanswali79440]

Hey David,

My advice to you would be to go and see all the machines at the show. It may be a long journey but you will be able to see everything 'in the flesh' and listen to the information being given by the various sellers. After you have taken it all in, you can either make a decision at the show to buy from a seller there, or come and visit ARC, and hear what we have to say about the SIEG offering from ARC, then make a decision. Unfortunately, ARC stopped attending shows a few years ago.

The only thing which you may call 'much of a muchness' could be the way the machines are assembled. Other then this, many models are different, be it motor, electrical, mechanical. The real choice is what you feel comfortable with. Every person on this forum made their own choice in this way. There are + and – for every model. Price is not the only factor.

To add to your headache, ARC is soon hoping to add the 2.7 to the range. It is bigger then the 2, but it will be available as a brushed (to compete on price) as well as a brushless, in standard and long table lengths, in MT3 and in R8. The prices for the X2.7 brushed versions will be closer to the SX2P-brushless , and the prices for the SX2.7 brushless will be closer to the SX3 brushless. Hows that for confusion?

If you want to see them, at present we have one piece each of each model just arrived. Few of them are pre-sold. If you are interested, you will need to speak to our Ian if you decide to visit. ARC is open to visitors today from 9am to 12.30pm.

Ketan at ARC.

[Nicholas FarrParticipant @nicholasfarr14254]

Hi Dave, I fully agree with Ketan;s view and the show is worth a visit in my opinion. I went yesterday and bought a few bits of tooling.

Regards Nick.

[Dave Smith the 16thParticipant @davesmiththe16th]

I have a prolapsed disc so travelling that far may mean i wont be walking far.

I had a visit today and he tempted me with machines that were a bit over what i think i should spend on what is in effect just another toy for my toy box

Similar to buying the lathe its a toy that comes in useful sometimes.

I settled on the X2P and will be collecting it on Tuesday. I just need a victim volunteer to lift it onto the bench. Just thought of a question i didnt check/ask… Does it need to be raised on the bench? I have seen others lift them to give clearance for the handwheel.

Although he needs some overtime as it was past closing when i left. oops.

 

First task after positioning it is the slot  in the ball turner mentioned in another thread.

 

 

 

 

Edited By Dave Smith the 16th on 21/05/2016 14:32:11

Edited By Dave Smith the 16th on 21/05/2016 14:50:47

[John RuddParticipant @johnrudd16576]

Dave,

My SX2 sits ( bolted to) on 2 lengths of 2" box section, which in turn sits on a plastic tray with deep sides( the kinda thing from garden centres). This helps keep all the coolant off the bench and gives sufficient clearance for the handwheels

[Dave Smith the 16thParticipant @davesmiththe16th]

I have some box section but they may only be 12" long? approx 3" but 6 or 8mm wall.

How long do they need to be?

Probably a bit rusty but i can mill them flat now

[John RuddParticipant @johnrudd16576]

Posted by Dave Smith the 16th on 21/05/2016 14:56:17:

I have some box section but they may only be 12" long? approx 3" but 6 or 8mm wall.

How long do they need to be?

Probably a bit rusty but i can mill them flat now

 

The two pieces supporting my mill run front to back, so whatever distance that is, is the required length

I did the same with my Chester Conquest mill too..

Edited By John Rudd on 21/05/2016 15:31:02

[Frances IoMParticipant @francesiom58905]

a lump of 18mm MDF (nice + stable) lifts machine enough to easily use the handle – the tray is useful even tho you may not intend to use coolant(if you do so intend make sure any holes + fittings to bench are sealed) – buy at same time then you don’t have to lift machine a second time

Edited By Frances IoM on 21/05/2016 15:32:08

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

I have mine so the front handwheel sticks out over the edge of the bench, but I have about four feet between the benches on opposite sides of the workshop.

[Dave Smith the 16thParticipant @davesmiththe16th]

I read where MDF or Ply was used, but over time wont oil seep into those?

I doubt i will use pumped coolant but did did think installing it inside a tray of some form seemed like a good idea.

Help with the cleanup at least, i must seal the edges of the base though. I didnt on the lathe and its amazing how everything i drop ends up under that tiny gap.

Sorting some space for it, how much sideways space do i need with the table at its extreme full left and right positions? Guessing approx 850mm? Anyone know how much space there is behind the table when its at its rear most position also?

Will i still use my little drillpress?  Or do i banish it to the shed? Little Clarke CP5DD.

 

Finally, its an R8 model, so worth getting a MT2 and a MT3 adapter?  Cover all my bases?

 

 

Edited By Dave Smith the 16th on 21/05/2016 19:05:01

Edited By Dave Smith the 16th on 21/05/2016 19:06:09

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