Which lathe?

[area3fitterParticipant @area3fitter]

[area3fitterParticipant @area3fitter]

Hello,

I'm sure this has been done to the death but here goes.

I am now in a position to look at purchasing a lathe. Trouble is which one. I think I have got to the point where I have narrowed it done to 2 maybe 3. These are the Myford Super 7 (with gearbox and power cross feed), a Harrison M250/M300 or later at the right price and an equivalent Colchester.

Am I in thr right area? I think I prefer this size of machine so as not to limit myself too much in the future if I take on a few larger projects as I develop.

Any views advice would be greatly appreciated.

regards

gareth

[phil burleyParticipant @philburley12227]

hello I have a Colchester bantam and a super 7 , I can do small jobs on the big lathe but not big jobs on the small lathe , Colchester is not that much bigger but much heavier and not difficult to fit a single phase motor to .I would always go for the biggest I could get at an affordable price

regards Phil

[Simon CollierParticipant @simoncollier74340]

You can do small things in a big lathe, but not big things in a small lathe. I think Myfords are too small and too expensive. You pay for history and mystique, not capacity.

[John HaineParticipant @johnhaine32865]

I'm happy with my S7. PXF is very nice to have. Don't think you have to have a gearbox if a nice changewheel lathe comes up at the right price – will you really be making the range of threads that the box produces that often?

[Simon Williams 3Participant @simonwilliams3]

I'm with Phil above. I too have an elderly and much loved sorry much worn S7 that I bought 40 years ago (its older than I am, but only just), and a Bantam which I bought second hand about 20 years ago, and hardly touched the S7 since. You can't possibly compare the two machines, they're chalk and cheese. Myford's are lovely if that's all you can find room for, but a production lathe like anything with a Harrison or Colchester badge on it will knock it into a cocked hat. Can't comment on others -no experience, but buying the Bantam was the best purchase I ever made.

HTH rgds Simon

[HollowpointParticipant @hollowpoint]

A few things to consider:

The myford headstock bore is a little restrictive for larger diameter stuff. But parts and acessories are easy to get hold of.

The others are more capable but obviously physically bigger and heavier. Can you shift such heft easily? Parts and acessories slightly less common.

Don't over look the Boxford AUD its somewhere in between.

[David ColwillParticipant @davidcolwill19261]

There are quite a few lathes in the M250 / M300 size that are worth considering I have a Smart and Brown 1024 which is excellent. If you can find any of the quality industrial lathes in good order the I'm sure you will be happy with it. Make sure you get all the equipment with it (chucks, steadies etc) as these things can be hard to find and very expensive. I'm sure you are aware of it but in case you aren't then don't forget the lathes.co.uk website, which will tell you all you need to know about any lathe you may come across.

Good lick.

David

[JonParticipant @jon]

Personally I would go for one decent machine of larger size, you can still do intricate small stuff.

Started with an ML7 learnt the basics but took an age to do something stupidly simple even after vastly modifying it to a usable state. Never in wildest dreams going to a Harrison 140 17 years ago what used to take literally 4hrs I could do in 1/4hr that's the difference ones a toy the others a work horse.

Dare say with OP's name he may require various thread forms so what better machine than an M300 for a given size, dial in pitch no changewheels, job done whilst still trying to count the teeth on change wheel yet alone install.
That said I cant put anything like as big a cut on as the 140 with half the HP plus not so keen on spindle start.

[Simon Williams 3Participant @simonwilliams3]

My apologies if a pesonal recommendation is against the spirit of the forum, but I notice on lathes.co.uk for sale section several useful looking contenders for this. I bought my Bantam off Malcolm in Witney who's advertising here and I would recommend him to anyone.

The comments above about being able to do the job (to tolerance) in a fraction of the time is precisely why I love the Bantam over the Myford. If you've never had a production machine you won't know what your missing, but once you've worked on aa real lathe you never settle for tickling it wit the Myford again.

Rgds Simon

[AjohnwParticipant @ajohnw51620]

New or used?

If used to you know enough about them to pick out a decent one?

John

–

Edited By Ajohnw on 16/02/2016 22:21:10

[Ian PParticipant @ianp]

Gareth

As you say this subject has been done to death, and a cats nine lives does not even represent one dot on the page.

Putting it simply, it depends on what you want to use the lathe for. What others have said about large work in small lathes is true and regardless of what you think now, sooner or later you will find a smaller lathe restricts you.

I am definitely not a Myford fan but I have seen truly astonishing results done on them. I think Myford users often become more creative and ingenious because in using them they learn engineering and machine handling because a degree of 'feel' is needed to get the best out of them.

When I got my first lathe I did not have anything in particular in mind but I ended up with a Boxford (now replaced by a Harrison M250). I was always under the impression that the ME fraternity regarded Myfords and Boxfords as very similar to each other but I'm wiser now and know for certain that a Boxford is the more substantial product.

If you go for a larger lathe like a Harrison, get the best equipped example you can afford as accessories are generally quite expensive.

Ian P

[AjohnwParticipant @ajohnw51620]

Yes Ian but a Harrison could cost anything from £1000 or less to £10k or more. Colchestes can be wonderful but often can have done way too much work by the time they hit the used market. If not they are going to be expensive.

The range of prices on a myford can be better. Anything from some hundred to maybe 6K.

Much of the work on forums like this one also needs a miller but a myford with a T slotted cross slide especially the long one plus various bits can do rather a lot in that line as well. I feel in some ways the main problem with Myfords relates to high prices that may be for a well worn machine. Bit like buying a clapped out Scaublin. Great name but what is really needed is a great lathe.

Some one may decide they want a lathe but most of us know that it's not as simple as that and in real terms more information is needed than the OP provided. Budget for one and some idea of interested for another.

We had another one recently, deep pockets, 5" (?) loco and a large scale traction engine. Poles apart and the traction engine really does push out the boat. Model steam engines can also push the boat out a bit as well but in a different way.

John

–

[thaiguzziParticipant @thaiguzzi]

1. Colchester. Student.

2. Colchester. Bantam.

3. Harrison, L range.

4. Harrison. M range.

5. Boxford, model A or VSL.

6 -9. Several choices.

10. Myford.

# Reverse 1-2 and 3-4 if metric is preferable to imperial.

[John FieldingParticipant @johnfielding34086]

A couple of thoughts on lathes and what blows your hair back.

I have never quite gotten my head around why an amateur machinist would choose a lathe with a screw cutting gearbox as a must have. OK if you spend more than 50% of your time screw cutting parts then nuff said, but be honest – how often do you need to screw-cut a piece of work. I can't remember when I last needed to do this. I think it was the late Prof Chaddock who showed that a lathe fitted with a screw cutting gearbox had less available thread choices than a change-wheel lathe.

On the subject of the Myford vs the rest argument. Yes, the Myfords of days gone by where inexpensive and good value for money. But in the last ten or so years they became very over priced for what they are. My old S7 was made in 1971 and I bought it secondhand for a reasonable price but it needed lots of TLC to rectify the abuse it had suffered from the previous owners. For about what I paid almost twenty years ago for the S7 I could have bought a chinese/taiwanese equivalent, there was a knock-off ML7 made in China around in those days which was an exact copy. A friend at work bought one and then came and played with my old S7 and pronounced that he had bought a load of tat after trying my S7. It looked nice and shiny but it didn't have the precision of the Myford and soon developed problems.

The early ML7 and S7 didn't have a big spindle bore, later altered to something more sensible, but apart from that it can do most jobs. But I also have to admit a bigger lathe is a useful accessory and if I was in the market again I would definitely go up in size a bit. (Fortunately I have friends with big lathes when I need to do some large machining). Today we have a much wider range to choose from and the costs are not too high for some people. But the pensioners and older people simply don't have the spare money to buy a new lathe, so someone's cast off is always going to be the solution. It is like buying a secondhand car – buyer beware!

Edited By John Fielding on 17/02/2016 07:59:07

[Chris Evans 6Participant @chrisevans6]

The Bantam is a very desirable lathe as is the Harrison. Think about the size of workpiece you will be doing,I have a friend with a nice Bantam lathe but have to do jobs for him due to the spindle bore size. I can hold a motorcycle fork stanchion he can't.

[colin nicholsonParticipant @colinnicholson28156]

Gareth

I own an ML7 – great for model making and does not take up much room, easy to get parts for and easy to look after.

I was given a Boxford but got rid of it as it soon after as it must have hard a life and was not prepared to spend money on it to keep it going but it was a sturdy lathe but the ML7 meets my needs. How often will you need to use the screwcutting gear? Again, plenty of spares for them and easy to maintain.

I use Harrisons M300's, much sturdier but changing the chucks can be difficult as they are quite heavy and are held in on cams which must be tight. The mandrel allows a slightly larger diameter round bar to be held than the ML7.

[MuzzerParticipant @muzzer]

Posted by John Fielding on 17/02/2016 07:55:52:

I think it was the late Prof Chaddock who showed that a lathe fitted with a screw cutting gearbox had less available thread choices than a change-wheel lathe.

I doubt it. Most lathes with gearboxes also come with a set of change gears so you have considerably more ratios available.

[Nigel McBurney 1Participant @nigelmcburney1]

Go for a Colchester,the saddle hand wheel is on the right,most Harrisons have the hand wheel on the left,which is in the path of hot swarf from the chuck. Best Colchester is the gap bed Master 2500, a good solid machine with forward and reverse clutches ,ideal for tapping,screwcutting, etc good speed range,swings 19 ins in the gap and passes 1 5/8 through the headstock, there is a useful accessory, the rear tool post holder it grips on the feed sides of the cross slide and has two "t" slots, useful for lots of jobs including holding an angle plate and large boring bars.In addition to the Master I have a super 7 new in 1974 ,a very good small machine and at a reasonable price,main fault small spindle bore. Its useful to have two lathes as if something goes wrong with one machine ,it can be hopefully repaired on the other. i agree that more metal can be removed easier and quicker on the larger machine but that is true with most machine tools, the my was the right machine for its time and still meets the need for people who make smaller models and have limited space,plus how many new Myfords required immediate repairs ,adjustments improvements etc compared to the continual moans,groans and request for help seen on these pages for new imported machines.

[Ian S CParticipant @iansc]

My 13 x 26 BH Taiwanese lathe has a gear box with 40 imperial pitches, 23 metric,23 diametral, and 15 modular pitches, and 40 different feeds. But then it's only a cheap Taiwanese machine, basic lathe without stand 275Kg.

Don't over look a good lathe from else where, although I would look at a Boxford before I even thought of a Myford.

For a bit of fun you could go this way, my Super Adept chewing its way through a bit of 304 Stainless.

Ian S C

[Nick HughesParticipant @nickhughes97026]

You don't need to be doing a lot of screwcutting to justify a gearbox on a Myford, because it's also used to provide a range of feed rates for normal turning.

[Douglas JohnstonParticipant @douglasjohnston98463]

Lists of the best lathes can be rather misleading if no account is taken of what the lathe will be used for. If you are machining big stuff then you need a big lathe and a Myford would be at the bottom of your list.

If however,like me, you are into small stuff then a Myford may well be at the top of your list. I have used a small Myford (Speed 10 ) for over 20 years and have rarely needed anything bigger and it suits me just fine. For a beginner a small lathe has many advantages, one of the most important being safety since they are more forgiving when you do something silly.

If you start with a small lathe you can easily upgrade if you want something bigger and by that time you will know exactly what type of lathe you want.

Doug

[Alan Waddington 2Participant @alanwaddington2]

Posted by Douglas Johnston on 17/02/2016 09:55:57:

Lists of the best lathes can be rather misleading if no account is taken of what the lathe will be used for. If you are machining big stuff then you need a big lathe and a Myford would be at the bottom of your list.

If however,like me, you are into small stuff then a Myford may well be at the top of your list. I have used a small Myford (Speed 10 ) for over 20 years and have rarely needed anything bigger and it suits me just fine. For a beginner a small lathe has many advantages, one of the most important being safety since they are more forgiving when you do something silly.

If you start with a small lathe you can easily upgrade if you want something bigger and by that time you will know exactly what type of lathe you want.

Doug

Wise words from Doug. I was building a car when I got my first lathe so the 3.5" Grayson I bought was on the face of it an unsuitable size choice, however i learnt a great deal on that lathe! often working at the absolute limits of its capacity. Most jobs were doable with a bit of ingenuity, but in hindsight painfully slow. Spent many a happy hour in front of it though, in between thumbing a greasy copy of Mr Spareys most excellent tome " The Amateurs Lathe"

I eventually upgraded to a Harrison L5a which brought a wealth of automation and convenience to the workshop. The ability to take heavy cuts without stalling the lathe, Norton screw cutting gearbox, 4 way toolpost, powered feeds etc, made jobs that would have taken hours or even days on the Grayson a doddle to complete. It also had a very useful boring table which I used for milling duties until I could afford a dedicated mill.

After many more years I was offered a Colchester Student 1800 at the right money, so reluctantly passed the Harrison on to a friend, the Colchester is another step up in convenience, DRO, QCTP, Cam lock chucks, inverter drive etc, however unlike the Harrison it doesn't feel like wearing a pair of old slippers yet.

Like many people these days I'm time poor, so appreciate the speed and convenience a more industrial sized machine affords, but to be honest it's not a necessity for many jobs, and in some ways I miss the challenge of making things on the little Grayson.

[AjohnwParticipant @ajohnw51620]

The main problem with a used ML10 or Speed 10 is having the parts that are usually needed at some point. 3 & 4 jaw, face plate, no problem so far and then comes a fixed steady. That can be a problem to find. The difficulty of finding all of these parts can vary according to the lathe – price too.

The other aspect is the earlier ML10 – best avoided due to the headstock bearings really or checked very carefully. ML7's have the same problem but much of this type of problem depends on how much finishing with files and emery cloth is acceptable. I prefer none. Super 7's can have similar problems as can all other lathes for very similar reasons but sometimes it's fairly easy to replace the bearings.

The seven series lathe beds don't take wear well. They are great if perfect. On curious aspect is that Raglans use a similar arrangement and don't have as much of a problem with wear. They probably do at some point but the one I owned had more or less the same amount of wear as an ML7 I also owned but it didn't cause any where near as many problems. This was just a few thou on the width of the rails. The ML7 was also a dog due to head stock bearing wear until it was fixed. No problem if some one can use a bearing scraper. Till that was fixed the machine had a built in chip breaker on many materials and bits flew all over the place.

The main advantage of some sort of gearbox as I see it is easy feed selection – not easy screw cutting settings. It's just handy for that.

Colchesters, Harrisons etc. It's pretty easy to buy examples that don't deserve the name any more really. Generally when they really do the ££££££'s creep up at a very rapid rate. Some models are more inclined to be used lightly than others. This is true of other brands as well.

Personally I suspect the OP would be better off looking at the Warco site. If he has the funds and wants a fairly flexible size I would point him at the smaller gear head that at the moment comes with dro. He could easily spend 3k on something else and finish up with a dog. If that is too much several people on here use the larger variable speed models. Jason mentioned recently that his 280 runs out of steam at circa 9" dia so needs smaller cuts, That's how I read it anyway. Not surprising really but I'd bet he could modify the pulleys if needed. Some one else bought a similar lathe and the low speed range had been reduced to circa 400max, usable but probably a bit irritating to some one who often works at higher rpm's – bigger cuts at larger diameters, other types of cut will just take longer. I think Jason's low speed range tops out at 800. They will have changed this to give lower speeds for screw cutting. Ok drives and motors have been known to let the smoke out on these but it doesn't seem to happen very often and spares are available. Where these machines may fall down is milling, no way to fasten a vertical slide. The main limit of milling this way is capacity but it does extend what can be made on a lathe rather a lot. A lathe used like this can often be more rigid than some cheap small light weight miller.

John

–

[area3fitterParticipant @area3fitter]

Thanks everyone,

some real good advice and helps me greatly. I think it pushes me down the road I would like to have gone, that is a larger lathe and I think I would be looking at the M300 but have not ruled out some others like the 140 etc. Luckily, my experience was in using larger lathes but not for decades since. Times have changed a lot since then.

I have noticed that the M300 does not appear to have a slotted cross slide. Is this a real drawback? I have not ruled out others though as I quite like the 140.

In reply to Ajohnw, he is quite right, I probably don't have enough experience to cover all the angles and to make sure I don't buy a dog. Is there a safe way?

I will be looking at whatever I like prior to purchase of course and will work on the basis of a lathe that looks good and looked after and done light work wherever possible. I guess seeing and hearing it running is also important together with history about where it has come from.

thanks again.

[Author]

Posts