what do you use when designing?

[HopperParticipant @hopper]

I'm wondering also, how many people always work from a drawing when making something on the lathe or mill, and how many "work it out as we go along"?

I used to do the latter a lot. No drawings, just measuring, designing and machining as I went along. EG, making a ball turning tool from scrap. Start with a baseplate and work upwards, depending on what bits of scrap appeared out of the box, and a basic idea of what I wanted based on memory of a photo in a magazine but adding my own "improvements" (aka lazy man's shortcuts).

But having worked myself into a corner one too many times, in latter years I've gone back to sitting down and thinking stuff through and putting it down on paper, even in a rough hand-drawn pen on lined-paper pad format. I now have a plastic sheet protector that the drawing goes in and a hook it hangs on right in front of me at the lathe, so I know where I am at. I Now spend my time thinking about the actual machining operation and not designing the next step in my head as I machine, or even worse, trying to figure out how to overcome the latest snafu where I mis-remembered a measurement or didn't forsee that two parts can not occupy the same space at the same time!

So, who always works from drawings? And who flies by the seat of the pants much of the time?

Edited By Hopper on 21/10/2016 23:58:11

[FatgadgiParticipant @fatgadgi]

Solidworks is my weapon of choice.

I will happily use Inventor if I have to and I will use Fusion if the the part or parts are simple and I want to output gcode. I always use Fusion to make the g code for the cnc mill though, it's brilliant for that, but often from STEP files generated from Solidworks.

I model even the simplest of designs before machining – it takes a fraction of the time to model as compared to machinīng, so it's right first time ( OK, I'll admit, it's sometimes right ).

I work exclusively in 3D and generate 2D drawings from those designs. Sometimes I will even take the laptop īnto the workshop and work directly from the 3D model.

I have not used a 2D programme since autocad many, many years ago and I wouldn't want to go back to that again.

I don't even use a fag packet sketch any more.

Cheers Will

[Bill PudneyParticipant @billpudney37759]

In my heart I fly by the seat of my pants. However, and it hurts me a little bit to say it, but I get much better stuff when I work at it via a proper drawing. A drawing allows all the bits to be refined and tidied up. Depending on the complexity I either use a piece of paper and a pencil, or Turbocad, level of detail depends on the required result. It's a matter of horses for courses I suppose.

cheers

Bill

[Matthew ReedParticipant @matthewreed92137]

I rather like drawing by hand. Did an A level in Engineering Drawing 35 year ago and really enjoyed it, but never used it in anger, so it's nice to dust of the dividers and 'do it properly'. We do this for fun, don't we?

However, recently found a free iPad app, DrawinDots, which as a free version. It's a grid based drawing programme that is a bit toy-like in the interface, but its simple way of working makes the software transparent while you do the thinking bit. Tip, plan ahead with the grid size, then change it to multiples, to avoid counting tiny dots- I start with 8 or 12 representing millimetres, then start drawing on 80 (or 120) for 10mm etc. Great for train journeys, and prints nicely when you get home.

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Posted by Matthew Reed on 22/10/2016 08:26:56:

However, recently found a free iPad app, DrawinDots …

.

Thanks Matthew

That looks more poweful than I expected

Hang the expense! … I will probably invest all of £1.49 in the full version.

MichaelG.

[Peter G. ShawParticipant @peterg-shaw75338]

A combination of scrap paper for sketches and Design Cad Pro 3D Max otherwise.As it happens I have two versions of this program, one dating from 1999 which does all that I want and a later version dating from around 2007 or so which doesn't seem to give that much extra.

I should point out that as a Linux user, I have to use these programs via WINE, the older version working somewhat better than the later version.

I tried Turbocad, and could not get on with it. I found it absolutely atrocious compared to what I had been using prior to that.

Peter G. Shaw

[Anonymous]

Posted by Hopper on 21/10/2016 23:55:42:

So, who always works from drawings? And who flies by the seat of the pants much of the time?

Almost always from a drawing, whether it be a rough sketch or printed 2D CAD drawing. Anything else usually leads to disaster, or at least an "oh bother I didn't think of that", in the scrap bin we go.

Andrew

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

Posted by Hopper on 21/10/2016 23:55:42:

So, who always works from drawings? And who flies by the seat of the pants much of the time?

Edited By Hopper on 21/10/2016 23:58:11

Being relatively inexperienced there are many jobs I haven't tackled before. As I also have a bad memory and a tendency to produce parts that mirror the required shape, I find it much safer to always work from a drawing however crude.

To improve understanding I find it very helpful to redraw parts even from existing plans. This allows me to check dimensions and to fix the object in my head. Depending on the complexity of the part, the redraw might be on paper, or 2D-CAD (QCAD) or in 3D (Freecad).

I happily throw other software tools at a project: calculator, spreadsheet (I always do a Bill of Materials before starting anything non-trivial), graphing tools, and a Project Planner. (Not to formally project manage everything, but to understand sequences with dependencies. )

Perhaps one day I might trust myself to wing it. Not yet though!

Dave

[JAParticipant @ja]

I always try to work from a drawing. Sometimes these are sketches made on scrap pieces of paper but are usually drawings using CADs. The latter has the advantage that I have a saved record of my intentions at least. If following someone else's design I frequently redraw their drawings.

Like Dave I draw up a parts list, lists of materials and tools required etc. I have been known to plan the sequence of machining operations but I sometimes wonder if that is going too far.

I would not "wing it" on anything but the most trivial job.

JA

Edited By JA on 22/10/2016 19:34:39

Edited By JA on 22/10/2016 19:38:38

[Anonymous]

Posted by JA on 22/10/2016 19:30:16:

I have been known to plan the sequence of machining operations but I sometimes wonder if that is going too far.

Absolutely not, it's just plain common sense. It prevents cockups where you end up with no way to hold the work for an operation. Planning is especially useful for awkward shaped castings, or where certain features need proper alignment. I spend a lot of time working out the sequence of machining and making jigs that may be needed. Ideally the job then goes quickly and smoothly.

Andrew

[brickyParticipant @bricky]

I envy the ability of others who can use the drawing programmes,as I am not very computer literate.I do wing it for small items but make a drawing for larger things.I think things through for days to sort out the machining sequence and better ways of making an object before I start.

Frank

[Roger Provins 2Participant @rogerprovins2]

Posted by Andrew Johnston on 22/10/2016 20:28:11:

Posted by JA on 22/10/2016 19:30:16:

I have been known to plan the sequence of machining operations but I sometimes wonder if that is going too far.

Absolutely not, it's just plain common sense. It prevents cockups where you end up with no way to hold the work for an operation. Planning is especially useful for awkward shaped castings, or where certain features need proper alignment. I spend a lot of time working out the sequence of machining and making jigs that may be needed. Ideally the job then goes quickly and smoothly.

Andrew

I don't do much in the way of drawn plans, just enough to keep me on track, but I've learnt the hard way to think through carefully the order in which I will make something and which bits really have to be accurate.

Roger

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

Posted by julian atkins on 21/10/2016 23:42:55:

I use the insides of cardboard cereal packets and a pencil. Except for boilers which get drawn out properly on A2 or A3 paper.

My next loco might get drawn out properly, but on paper, if this is still acceptable for ME. It is rather an interesting loco, and might be of interest to ME readers.

Cheers,

Julian

I accept hand-drawn for MEW, as far as I know ME is the same.

If they can be kept to a4 sheets it helps though, as they can be scanned and shared with the draughtsman by email more easily.

Neil

[MuzzerParticipant @muzzer]

I start out with pencil sketches as I develop the general concept then create the key compts and assembly in 3D CAD. After a fair bit of iteration, I will hopefully come to a design I think is worth attempting. Then it sort of goes the other way – I create 2D drawings from the models (most CAD systems include this) and finally I revise the drawings so that they actually include the information required to make them.

Although it's easy enough to fully define each component in a 2D drawing, you have to think carefully about how you will make the part step by step in order to dimension the features on the drawings in a way that will allow you to make it without having to use a pencil and calculator to mark up the drawing in the workshop with the machine paused in the background as you calculate the next dimension you need to machine.

In reality, I tend to modify the 2D drawing and the underlying 3D model as the work proceeds. Perhaps due to further inspiration or indecision and / or available materials etc. Most CAD systems ensure that the drawings / models / assemblies are kept in synch as the changes are made.

Nowadays I use mostly Fusion 360. It is rapidly approaching maturity and now has features to compare with the likes of Solidworks, Solid Edge, Inventor, Geomagic etc. It also includes multi-axis CAM, simulation, surface modelling etc and all of these features are free for hobby users despite being a proper professional product. If you plan to get in to 3D CAD, I'd suggest you do your best to get to grips with it.

Murray

[James AParticipant @jamesalford67616]

Posted by Muzzer on 23/10/2016 00:17:24:

Nowadays I use mostly Fusion 360. It is rapidly approaching maturity and now has features to compare with the likes of Solidworks, Solid Edge, Inventor, Geomagic etc. It also includes multi-axis CAM, simulation, surface modelling etc and all of these features are free for hobby users despite being a proper professional product. If you plan to get in to 3D CAD, I'd suggest you do your best to get to grips with it.

Murray

I have looked at Fusion 360, as I am finding the limitations of OnShape frustrating, but as far as I can see, it is only free to students and those using it within education. I can see nothing about hobby use. Am I am missing something?

James.

[Gary WoodingParticipant @garywooding25363]

Posted by James Alford on 23/10/2016 10:33:11:

I have looked at Fusion 360, as I am finding the limitations of OnShape frustrating, but as far as I can see, it is only free to students and those using it within education. I can see nothing about hobby use. Am I am missing something?

James.

Yes, you are missing something.

After installing, you are told that you have to register it for use beyond the free trial period. When you register, if you can truthfully state that you're a student, hobbyist, or in education, the trial status is dropped and you can use it for a year, after which you have to repeat the declaration.

This YouTube video gives a good introduction to Fusion 360's capabilities.

Edited By Gary Wooding on 23/10/2016 10:57:16

[fishy-steveParticipant @fishy-steve]

I've just taken a quick look at the Autodesk fusion360 home page but can't see anything about it being free for hobby use. It does have a free version for Educators and students but I do not fit into either of those categories.

Do I just wing It?

[James AParticipant @jamesalford67616]

Gary,

Thank you. That would explain it as I was only looking on the website, not having gone as far as the registration stage.

I shall have a look at it, along with FreeCad that has also been mentioned.

James

[fishy-steveParticipant @fishy-steve]

Ignore my post. Thanks Gary.

[Vincent CutajarParticipant @vincentcutajar96446]

Have a look here for the hobbyist Fusion 360.

Vince

[MuzzerParticipant @muzzer]

At the end of the initial trial period for Fusion 360 you are asked to declare that you are using it for hobby or small business (< $100k pa turnover). They have promised that it will always be free for these users. It's the same package for hobby ad professional use. There are / will be some further add-ons that require a subscription but what is free is really rather stupendous. And a far cry (improvement) from Autocad and Inventor.

[HevansccParticipant @hevanscc]

Having recently gone through the process of downloading and trying out this that and the other CAD package I finally settled on Turbocad which I find agrees with the way my brain works – but as others have said, it may not be the same for you. That said, I always rough out the design in sketch form in my notebook first, then a 2D plan in TurboCad (which is sometimes all that is required), then 3D for complicated stuff. For arty bits I am learning Adobe Illustrator, but only because I can access it for free.

Hywel

[simondavies3Participant @simondavies3]

I do the basic work with a fineline pen on the 5mm squared paper that is available everywhere here in France – its sketching but to a grid and you can easily do a swift 'to scale' drawing to make sure the basics work – thats for the basic work.

After that, if I need to take it into either the 3D printer or to the CNC mill, I use Onshape which now allows the creation of dxf drawings from the 3D model. But I still need the squared paper sketch for the initial information.

I used to use SolidEdge for 2D but this was primarily for 'after the event' drawings for articles and not really for my own use.

[MuzzerParticipant @muzzer]

I started using Onshape as a beta tester. I was very encouraged by what I saw and planned to keep on using it. In many ways it's similar to Fusion 360, even down to the mates / joints. The main downside is that they charge for most of their (3rd party) add-ons and the limitations of the free version are rather severe. They have started from nothing, albeit with a very experienced team and good funding. I'm sure their product will be very capable but the cost of expanding it into CAM etc via their 3rd party add-ins would have been excessive for a hobby user like me. Conversely, I was never going to be able to move my own professional engineering team over from Solidworks to Onshape, no matter what Onshape thought.

In contrast, Autodesk have taken the brave decision to throw all of their Fusion 360 product open for free (for small and hobby users), including 3D CAM – they own HSM Works which is a very well-proven professional 3D CAM system and have also integrated a variety of features such as FEA, thermal simulation, surface modelling tools etc. I suspect many of these had already been developed within Autodesk for the likes of Inventor. These are options that Onshape cannot offer unless they license and/or develop them specifically to support Onshape.

[simondavies3Participant @simondavies3]

I have stuck with Onshape since being a beta tester (thanks to you!) and its getting better and better and over time. However I export the results to either .stl for my 3D printing CAM programs (Slic3r or Kisslicer) or 2.5 D CNC CAM program (CamBam) to generate the Gcode.

Yes, it would be wonderful to have a fully integrated version but I don't have the time/effort/energy for yet another solution set – and it is a very long way from my day job in telecoms so I don't have the advantages of being able to 'dual task' and learn it in parallel.

However you have triggered me to go and look at Fusion – when I have a spare moment!

Simon

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